Small Block V7 Gear Shifter Linkage - Ball Joint Condition

[Dirk_S]

I was a doof and called this a clutch pushrod ball joint in my now-deleted post. Let’s try this again.

Video link below.

During my trip on the MABDR, I became extra aware of stuff that may have been banging around on rocks while riding in the woods. I took notice of my gear shift linkage (huzzah! Nailed it!) and it seems as though it’s a little looser, click’y and dry when pivoting. I may well be hyper-focusing on something I didn’t pay much attention to in the past, but I was wondering if there’s any literature in the manuals describing how these ought to feel or operate in healthy condition?

https://youtu.be/HE60xLfBlC0?si=NArZaw-u6k00QIZj

Thankya.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

That type of ball joint needs to be removed, cleaned and greased once in a while. The circular metal clip needs to be removed first (kind of hinges around and then pulls out of a hole), then the socket should pull off easily.

Basically the same ball-joints that Mercedes-Benz used on their throttle linkage back in the '70s.

[sign216]

Those are properly called Heim joints.  Used by the Germans in aircraft during WW2.  The allies first learned of them when they captured a German plane. 

[73 sport]

   Go to Google, type in " 10/32 heim joints". There is everything you need.

[73 sport]

   I forgot to say "aluminum 10/ 32 heim joints"

[Dirk_S]

My sole understanding of the Heim joint is only through sidecars—they’re often used as an option for the lower mounts. I thought Heim joints referred only to the mounts that look essentially like rod ends with spherical bearings, like this:







…Didn’t realize heim joints also included those with a closed side.

[Frenchfrog]

Those joints are fine Dirk...like Antiem said a strip and grease would do no harm but I don't see any appreciable wear in the ball itself.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Thanks for clarifying that they’re heim joints. My sole understanding of that particular pivot-end mount is only through sidecars—they’re often used as an option for the lower mounts. I thought heim joints referred only to the mounts that look essentially like rod ends with spherical bearings, like this:







…Didn’t realize heim joints also included those with a closed side.

Those open ones are the only type I've ever seen referred to as "Heim joints".

This is the type you have and a possible source should you need one. https://www.mcmaster.com/products/ball-joints/gas-spring-end-fittings~/ Google "mercedes-benz throttle linkage ends" and you'll find more sources.

[jacksonracingcomau]

Did you know the spherical rod end bearing was developed byt the Germans in World War II. When one of the first German planes to be shot down by the British in early 1940 was examined, they found this joint in use in the aircraft's control systems. The H.G. Heim Company was given an exclusive patent to manufacture these joints in North America, while in the UK the patent passed to Rose Bearings Ltd.
 

My preference is for the “  open” type pictured above, we call them “rose” joints, I just learned why, I was trying to get an acronym out of Rose !

Rose joints and ss bolts last indefinitely IMHE whereas I’ve replaced a few factory clip style ones that were worn out. Light years better that clevis pin they replaced though

[sign216]

Jackson, next time read the thread (take a gander at my post below).

[jacksonracingcomau]

Jackson, next time read the thread (take a gander at my post below).

Yeah, I did, first paragraph of my reply is search result for rose, rod spherical end. I expected anagram but discovered Rose bearing company. Everyday a school-day, especially for you it seems.
Helm is yank patent, Rose is uK one
Divided by a common language etc etc

read the flipping quote before yapping, it may not interest you but others like trivia

Oddly we call the male or female  rod ends Rose joints but the pressed into shock eye etc round ones, Helm joints, go figure

[Dirk_S]

Right, so until you kids stop fighting and make up, I’m going to continue NOT calling these Heim/Rose joints, because my further reading on the terms continues to back my previous understanding. I’m seeing them called elbow joints, ball sockets, ball joint linkage ends, etc., but I haven’t found a reference—at least not online—in which they’re also called Heim/Rose joints.

Just to clarify with a couple closeup examples of this particular linkage that I’m referring to in my OP:

[sign216]

Dirk, a non-proprietary / non-trademarked name sounds best to me, whether it elbow joint, ball joint, or similar. 

To bad it took WW2 and the death of a pilot for the joints to make to the UK/US.

The Italians had a vigorous aircraft industry prior to the war.  I wonder if the Germans shared the joints with them?

[Moparnut72]

Italian WWll aircraft engines were works of art compared to those from the rest of the world.
kk

[sign216]

Italian WWll aircraft engines were works of art compared to those from the rest of the world.
kk

The Italians early on, were experimenting with some interesting ideas, ahead of others.  Where the war accelerated aircraft development for some countries, the opposite happened in Italy.  Really too bad. 

[guzzisteve]

If you are in buying mood Joe W here sell what looks like you need. I know a few that have bought his shifter stuff.

https://theguzzidoctor.com/shop/1973-v7-sport-shift-linkage/

[Dirk_S]

Pulled the linkage off to clean and lubricate, and I discovered the spherical plastic bearings inside were broken up on both ends. Guess that confirms my loose and click-ey” observation.

[jacksonracingcomau]

Right, so until you kids stop fighting and make up, I’m going to continue NOT calling these Heim/Rose joints, because my further reading on the terms continues to back my previous understanding. I’m seeing them called elbow joints, ball sockets, ball joint linkage ends, etc., but I haven’t found a reference—at least not online—in which they’re also called Heim/Rose joints.

Just to clarify with a couple closeup examples of this particular linkage that I’m referring to in my OP:

Correct deduction, not Rose joints

Pulled the linkage off to clean and lubricate, and I discovered the spherical plastic bearings inside were broken up on both ends. Guess that confirms my loose and click-ey” observation.

Exaactly why I posted this in my first reply to this thread

My preference is for the “  open” type pictured above, we call them “rose” joints, I just learned why, I was trying to get an acronym out of Rose !

Rose joints and ss bolts last indefinitely IMHE whereas I’ve replaced a few factory clip style ones that were worn out. Light years better that clevis pin they replaced though

Link in Steve’s post also explains these ball and nylon / plastic socket joint failures in early 750 Sports

If you are in buying mood Joe W here sell what looks like you need. I know a few that have bought his shifter stuff.

https://theguzzidoctor.com/shop/1973-v7-sport-shift-linkage/

Which is why we replace them with Rose joints and stainless steel bolts

German plane was way off topic but you have seen now why you should use proper rod end spherical bearings, whichever name you want to call them

[Muzz]

On my Breva I would have expected the linkage rod would be at 90 degrees to the lever on the gearbox, and with the push in the vertical position. It is neither , and I found over a period of time not only did the elbow joint get very sloppy, the rod would keep bending at the threaded part. I could see a broken linkage in my future! I ended up by purchasing two much heavier constructed joints, measured the length of rod to get the exact position of how I like the gear lever positioned, and cut and threaded the rod so there is absolutely no threaded portion exposed.  Ok, now there is no adjustment but because it is exactly how I like my gear lever set I don't give a toss.

To date it has been completely trouble free, and I expect that to continue.

[jacksonracingcomau]

I could see a broken linkage in my future! I ended up by purchasing two much heavier constructed joints

To date it has been completely trouble free, and I expect that to continue.

I think you have bought Rose joints, the factory would be wise to consider doing same.

There is an advantage in LH /RH threaded central part for when one changes footwear, from lightweight to heavier, academic in a place that never thaws perhaps ?
But fixed is fixed in both senses of the word.
👍

[Moparnut72]

I have purchased three new Moto Guzzis. I couldn't get my boot under the shifter on any of them until a tech adjusted them. In Italy all riders must wear Gucci loafers.   
kk

[Muzz]

I think you have bought Rose joints, the factory would be wise to consider doing same.

There is an advantage in LH /RH threaded central part for when one changes footwear, from lightweight to heavier, academic in a place that never thaws perhaps ?
But fixed is fixed in both senses of the word.
👍

Agreed Martin. The prroblem will only rear it's ugly head when someone else buys the bike. As it is, it is set up perfectly for me.

What I omitted to say was that I used 1/2" bright steel for the rod. Turned the ends down on the lathe and cut a thread so that, with the lock nut on, no thread is exposed. Much, much stronger!