Heidenau Tire Opinion

[Mazzeratzi]

Hello Folks,

I have a 1970 Ambassador that could use some new tires. Ideally I'd like to use something that has a classic tread design but I live in the Bay Area and there are several highways with rain grooves. A lot of the vintage tread patterns have a center sipe that can make rain grooved highways very nerve wracking to ride. Does anyone have experience with Heidenau tires particularly the K36 or the K34? I like the way they look and they come in 4.00x18 but I'm concerned about the tread pattern. It would be great to hear some feedback.
I like the Metzeler Block C as well but those seem worse.

If I go with a more modern tire it will probably be Dunlop D404s.

Thanks!

[Sprouty115]

I've never used either tire, so I was curious - first review I came across from Cycle Gear:

"These tires look great and are a modern soft compound.
However because of the Bias construction and the tread pattern they a nightmare on rain grooves. Taking the 520 bridge to and from Seattle is no longer safe option."

Not exactly encouraging...but having said that, if you go down the vintage tread pattern rabbit hole, it probably will be hard to find any tire without someone saying they suck in rain grooves. 

One more thought on the K34 - they appear to be intended for lower displacement motorcycles.   Not sure that's how I would describe a 1970 Ambassdor?

What I do have experience with is Dunlop K70 tires.  I use them on my '75 R90/6. I'm on my third set and I really like them.  I've done everything for trips up to Canada, to gravel/dirt roads, to rain. 

I like how they handle, how they look and they're easy to mount.  I get about 6k out of them before I change them.
 So no complaints at all from me. 

[Moparnut72]

I ran K70's on my R75/5. I always got at least 10k miles on the rear and 20 on the front. I don't remember any love the had for grooves but that was a long time ago.
kk

[ttietjen]

I've been running that combo on my 73 eldorado for the last couple years with no complaints, can't say there have been any rain groove issues. I tried the heidenau's after not getting very good mileage from the Conti K112 rear that preceded them. Next time I might try a Metzler roadtech, they do come in a 4.0 by 18 to retain the vintage look.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

They're a bit hard to find, but another "classic" looking tire to consider is the Duro HF308. I had them on my '69 V700 and they worked very well. Great traction whether wet, dry, dirt, gravel. Not particularly long-lived - only about 6k on the rear.
https://www.midwesttraction.com/store/c7/street/p5609/duro-hf308-400-18-frontrear-4-ply-motorcycle-street-tire/

[faffi]

I have used the K34 on a KZ650 and on  Virago that also ran an 18in rear wheel. On the Kawasaki, I first ran a Cheng Shin rear, then a Mitas H15 then a K36, then a Michelin Pilot Street.

The K34 simply never wears, yet offer plenty grip for peg scraping on old classics. Steering is accurate, and grip for stopping a match for older brake systems. It worked great with the all rear tires EXCEPT the K36. It was so bad that at just 60 mph, giving the handlebars a good shake, the bike would wobble and weave hard enough to throw my feet off the pegs!

On the Virago, the K34 also worked great together with  Mitas H15.

[guzziart]

I'm running k70's on my '72 Eldo because of the vintage look but they're a squirrelly ride on rain grooves.  However, most of my riding on that bike is on backroads where there are no rain grooves.

[Mazzeratzi]

Thanks for all of the input!

Sounds like the K34s might be a good option for a vintage design. They look the part and have a 64H load rating in 4.00x18 so I think they are fine for the weight of the bike. But the review about rain grooves is concerning. I'd hate to spend $300 on tires that are squirrelly.

I have K70s on my British bikes and I haven't had any issues with them. I sometimes think they are a bit too chunky looking but I  they perform well enough. I think I'd like to use something different for the Ambassador though. Who wants three bikes in the garage with all the same tires? 

The bike currently has Conti Blitz tires 110/90-18 front and 120/19-18 rear. I don't know when those were discontinued. They have lots of tread but they are 20years old! If I get a metric tire I'm going to go with 110/90-18 front and rear.

[jcctx]

When it comes to tires, I always liked the round black ones!!

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

The bike currently has Conti Blitz tires 110/90-18 front and 120/19-18 rear. I don't know when those were discontinued. They have lots of tread but they are 20years old! If I get a metric tire I'm going to go with 110/90-18 front and rear.

The Conti Blitz was my favorite up until the were discontinued. Then I switched to Bridgestone S11 Spitfires which did well. When those were getting hard to find I switched to the Shinko 230 Tourmaster. Those are the closest thing in feel and durability to the Blitz of any tire I've tried. I run 110/90 front and 120/90 rear on my Loops and a 100/90 front and 120/90 rear on my Convert.

[Mazzeratzi]

Just wanted to post an update to this thread for anyone on a tire search…..
For my 1970 Ambassador I ended up going with Dunlop 404 in 110/90-18 front and rear. That size is the closest cross reference to the original 4.00x18 tires fitted to the loop frames. After putting a couple hundred miles on the bike I can say I’m happy with the ride and handling of the tires. They have great dry grip, haven’t really ridden in the rain. But, I do find the bike sits lower and so I am scraping all sorts of parts during spirited riding in the twisties. But the lower height makes it easier for my wife to ride so there’s that.
I recently picked up a ‘73 Eldorado that had ancient rubber so I was back down the tire choice hole. I decided to try Dunlop K70s this time. They are one of the few tires available in 4.00x18 and they have the vintage look. I’ve used them on the rear of my British bikes with good results. The bike sits higher than my Ambassador and there is much better ground clearance. Unfortunately I’m not happy with the handling. In general the chunky tread makes them feel more squirmy (if that is a word) than the 404s, less confidence inspiring . But the big problem was when I hit some rain grooves on a downhill grade coming out of a tunnel near me. The bike started weaving so badly I thought for sure I was going down. I slowed way way down and immediately exited the freeway. I’ve never felt tires react so badly to rain grooves.
Maybe other people have had good luck with K70s but I want to be able to ride that bike wherever I want without concern for the road surface and there are a lot of rain grooves and bridge grates in the Bay Area. So I  am going to ditch the K70s immediately and go with 404s. This time I’ll use 120/90-18 front and rear for better clearance. Personally I like keeping the front and rear tires the same size per the original designer’s intention. It gives the bike very neutral handling.

[guzziart]

Just wanted to post an update to this thread for anyone on a tire search…..
For my 1970 Ambassador I ended up going with Dunlop 404 in 110/90-18 front and rear. That size is the closest cross reference to the original 4.00x18 tires fitted to the loop frames. After putting a couple hundred miles on the bike I can say I’m happy with the ride and handling of the tires. They have great dry grip, haven’t really ridden in the rain. But, I do find the bike sits lower and so I am scraping all sorts of parts during spirited riding in the twisties. But the lower height makes it easier for my wife to ride so there’s that.
I recently picked up a ‘73 Eldorado that had ancient rubber so I was back down the tire choice hole. I decided to try Dunlop K70s this time. They are one of the few tires available in 4.00x18 and they have the vintage look. I’ve used them on the rear of my British bikes with good results. The bike sits higher than my Ambassador and there is much better ground clearance. Unfortunately I’m not happy with the handling. In general the chunky tread makes them feel more squirmy (if that is a word) than the 404s, less confidence inspiring . But the big problem was when I hit some rain grooves on a downhill grade coming out of a tunnel near me. The bike started weaving so badly I thought for sure I was going down. I slowed way way down and immediately exited the freeway. I’ve never felt tires react so badly to rain grooves.
Maybe other people have had good luck with K70s but I want to be able to ride that bike wherever I want without concern for the road surface and there are a lot of rain grooves and bridge grates in the Bay Area. So I  am going to ditch the K70s immediately and go with 404s. This time I’ll use 120/90-18 front and rear for better clearance. Personally I like keeping the front and rear tires the same size per the original designer’s intention. It gives the bike very neutral handling.

Yeah, I experience the same with the k70's on my Eldo, it's alot less with the K70's on my cl350.  I wonder if it has something to do with the rigidity of the bike frame or differences in wheel base.  If I rode these bikes everyday on rain grooved hwys or bridge grates they'd definitely have to go.  Sorry to hear of your experiences with k70's because thay are far from the least expensive tires out there for these bikes.  Good luck and we'll look forward to your ride report with whatever tires you buy next.
Art

[Tom H]

FWIW: 110/90-18 is basically the width of a 4.0-18, but shorter sidewall. A 110/100 or 110/90-18 would be very close to the 4.0. 120/90-18 is basically the sidewall of the 4.0, but about a 4.25-18.

I had been running the Bridgestone S11's on my Loops until they discoe'd them. I would run the Shinko 712, but they don't make a 110/90 front. I am trying the Kenda K657 (Shinko 712 knockoff) rear on my Loops, so far so good, but no idea yet mileage wise. I need to change my front tires and the K657 is only a 100/90 and I'm not thrilled with the tread pattern for the font, rear is fine. I plan to go with the Kenda K673 which is a cross between tread pattern knock off off a D404 and Shinko SR733.

Just some thoughts,
Tom

[benebob]

I had similar issues and decisions when putting tires in my -. Ended up going with the duro hf-309 (looks like a flat track tire mostly because of its high speed rating that many of the classics lacked. Tire wear is as expected. Rear might see 6k if I put that many miles on before I hit 7 years. Handles great up to 120mph a little clunky around turns like any knob style tire. Brake and handle the wet better then the bike does. As for your question on the hiden. Only experience I have had with em are the scout and it wears like iron of course at the expense on grip. Great for highway burners but a bit meh around the turns esp when the weather is cool or wet

[Mazzeratzi]

Some photos of the Dunlop K70 on the Eldorado and the 110/90 D404 on the Ambassador for reference.
I think the weight of the loop frame bikes may contribute to the squirmy feel of the K70. As I mentioned I have run them on vintage British bikes with good results but only on the rear paired with an Avon Speedmaster on the front.
I still think the Heidenau K36 would look perfect on these bikes but with the center sipe tread design and the fact they are like $180 a piece I’m not going to experiment.

[faffi]

The K36 looks a bit like the Metzeler ME99 of the past century. When I fitted a K36 rear together with the K34 ribbed front, my KZ650 ran into massive stability issues. I like the K34 on the front - I have one fitted currently on my V9 Roamer - but will never buy another K36. The K34, I have used together with a number of rear tires from at least 4 different makes, and never had an issue. YMMV.

[moto]

This discussion has been helpful as I considered what to put on my 1978 V50, just acquired. I determined to go back to the 3.00-18 front as originally equipped. I wound up buying the Duro HF319 3.00-18 and HF314 3.50-18, for the front and rear respectively. I'm excited to get some narrow tires on this bike, and frankly, I'm also excited to see and smell the fresh rubber in my kitchen now, where they are staying until the weather gets warmer.



These tires are only rated for 93 sustained mph, so should be good enough for me on this bike. I decided based upon some comments that the Heidenau weren't worth the extra cost. Thanks.