V7 Gear Oils. Syn or conv.

[Tom H]

Not trying to start an oil thread, just a bit confused. So KISS

V7 I II III

Manual states 85W/140 rear drive. Do they mean synthetic or conventional? Conventional is the most common available.

75W90 in the gear box. This is most available/common in synthetic, but can be had in conventional.

I tried looking up the brand and spec of type, but not much solid info.

I really just need to know if I should run syn, or conv in which box or both boxes. Don't care what brand. Just what does the manual mean??

I'm thinking syn in the gear box and conv in the rear drive.

Thank you,
Tom

[jrt]

Since none of the oil will touch (we hope) the clutch, does it really matter?  I would imagine that 'some' oil is better than 'no' oil (an old Roperism). 
I'd go with whatever is convenient, but the rear is hypoid gears, so I would add moly to that.  I don't know if synthetic oil in the gearbox would need it. 

This is my opinion and conjecture- I leave it at that.

[s151669]

I have no experience on Guzzi gearboxes but I have had my share of cars of "It still runs" -variety.

The synthetic gearbox oil has two benefits.
1) Under sub zero temperatures it eliminates tendency of stick shift car creeping forward even if in neutral. Yes, it is true, been there, done that.
2) You really don't need to change the gearbox oil, ever. I have changed the oil to few cars at even 100000km mark, never noticed any difference except when going from dino to synth in wintertime.  Did not bother later on, no difference whatsoever either even on cars with 1/4 million km or more in odometer. (*

1) does not matter for motorcycle
2) does not matter either if change interval is once a year or similar.

For 2) - of course - it might be possible to lenghten the change interval if oil stays inside gearbox and if it stays moisture free. Then again you lose any early warnings on gearbox condition.

You are unlikely to find 75W90 gear oil as conventional oil. Conventionals seem to be 80W90 - at least here. That is of no consequence if you riding does not happen below sub zero temperatures, both oils should be same in motorcycle box.

One thing, however: Thou shalt not put API GL5 oil in API GL4 specified gearbox as that might eat any bronze parts. Usually synchromesh rings so that might or might not matter for motorcycle gearbox.

That's the theory anyway. I expect more experienced Guzzi guys to chime in - this might be of interest to me in the future.

For rear drive - don't know.

*)
I once had gearbox to develop a leak when I changed oil to synthetic. However, the previous oil might have been ATF which really would not have been the correct oil. And the brand of oil had rumours about leakage. Or perhaps the box was leaky to begin with and only started to leak again once it was full.

[kballowe]

People have run all manner of gear oil and motor oil and have had good service.

Our local Walmart stocks their own house brand of gear oil, along with Valvoline and Castrol brands, in those two grades.  Mobil 1 lubricants are also a favorite.  Pick one in the correct viscosity for your application.

The only thing that I look for is the "MT-1" rating on the bottle.  That's the manual transmission rating, and it will contain a seal conditioner.

Conventional lubes will provide good service.  The synthetic lubes will typically allow longer change intervals. 

Get what makes you sleep better at night.

[kballowe]

One thing, however: Thou shalt not put API GL5 oil in API GL4 specified gearbox as that might eat any bronze parts. Usually synchromesh rings so that might or might not matter for motorcycle gearbox.

Modern GL-5 lubes will not harm brass/bronze parts.  This used to be an issue (especially) for synchronizers in automotive manual transmissions.  Oh, and Harley Davidson primary chain cases - because of all of stator copper windings that got bathed in that lube.

Many gear lubes now show the application as GL-4/GL-5 on the container.

[Mike Tashjian]

The GL-5 rating should be good for everything including those old odd Porsche Synchro's that nobody I know owns.  That said the 85W/140 is a new one I have bought last year when 85W/90 was hard to find.  It is always better to stick with the right weight, but I am giving the heavier oil a go in both rear drives and transmissions.  I won't know for a while if there could be an issue.  I am curious about how the transmissions will shift with the heavier weight oil. Rear drives are running the same temperatures with the 85W/140.   I think the wider viscosity ranges(85W/140) are primarily a bonus of  Synthetic oils as most conventional oil seem to limit the viscosity rating(85W/90).  In motor oil tests the semi and full Synthetic oils rate very well for long life and very little breakdown, not sure about gear oils.   

[Tom H]

Thank you for the replies so far. Maybe I need to ask my question a different way.

ENI ROTRA LSX 75W-90. From Eni is this syn or conv? I'm thinking syn?

AGIP GEAR MG SAE 85W-140. From Agip is this syn or conv? I'm thinking conv?

When I searched for the Agip, I could only find a data sheet, but it did not specify syn or conv, only that it was MG rated designed for Guzzi.

My '62 F100 never shifted so smoothly until I was in 30F temps in the mountains.

Thanks again!!!
Tom

[kballowe]

Thank you for the replies so far. Maybe I need to ask my question a different way.

ENI ROTRA LSX 75W-90. From Eni is this syn or conv? I'm thinking syn?

AGIP GEAR MG SAE 85W-140. From Agip is this syn or conv? I'm thinking conv?

"Eni Rotra LSX 75W-90 is a special top synthetic lubricant for manual gearboxes requiring an API GL-4 or GL-5 level of performance"

There''s no mention of the term "synthetic" for the 85W-140 item.

As an aside - don't get stuck on the AGIP/Eni family of lubricants.  After all, my latest three Moto Guzzi owner's manuals simply state "Castrol products".

At one time, the Italian Government owned a very large share of Moto Guzzi.  They also own the country's petroleum companies.  At that time, it made sense that they would recommend lubricants from a petroleum company that they owned.

My 2014 manual spec'd ENI Rotra LSX gear oil.  After much research, I discovered that it's a very very close match to many of the other gear oils out there (detailed spec sheets).  An exact match to the Mobil Delvac 1, which is essentially an gear oil targeted to large trucks and heavy equipment.

[Tom H]

That's pretty much what I came up with after searching yesterday.

Thanks again,
Tom

[jcctx]

Oil good; use some!!!

[Tom H]

Have never used the specified brand. I mainly use conv in my vehicles, except the engine oil in my EVT and my '14 F150.

This is just something that has bothered me. The manual states syn for the engine, but only the weights and brand for the gear oils. As my search and the responses, 75w-90 is normally syn, 85w-140 seems to be mainly conv.

So when I need to help someone with those oil specs, the gear box will get syn and the rear drive will get conv.

Edit: Something I was working on needed 75w-140. No mention of syn or conv. But...75w-140 seems to be syn only.

Thanks again!!!
Tom

[Brand X]

AF1 use to sell this as a package for service.. You can get it cheaper on-line somewhere .

Zero issues using it in my Stornello.. Right specs too

https://www.af1racing.com/AF1-V9-DOK-BelRay-AF1-BelRay-Rear-Hub-Rear-Axle-Oil-Kit---For-V9s

https://www.af1racing.com/AF1-V7II-TRANS-OIL-KIT-Motul-AF1-Racing-Motul-Transmission-Oil-Change-Kit

[Perazzimx14]

FWIW I use good old SuperTech gear oil in all my BMW's and would also in Guzzi's if I still had any. It's good quality , meets or exceeds manufacturers specs, inexpensive and readily available. You can spend more but do you get more? It happens to be synthetic but I I'd run it if it was conventional.

Available in 75W-90 and 75W-140.

In reality any gear oil in the correct weight the meet the manufacturers specs will be 1000% fine. Name on the the bottle, oil base and price are irrelevant.

[Tom H]

Well, I feel a bit silly for asking the question . I just found the answer.

I went back to look at a V7 III manual on line. It does state that the 75W-90 for the gear box is synthetic. Not specified for the rear drive. I was sure I was looking at a saved .pdf copy I have that was for a V7 III, I shall have to figure out what manual it is for.

Sorry for a bit of a time waster. Good thoughts though!!!

Tom

[Moparnut72]

I'll kick in my experience. When I had a Harley with the 110" Big Twin I tried a variety of oils in the gearbox. Harley specified Syn3 in all three holes which I stuck with except for the gearbox. The gearbox on the 110" was really king of crude and didn't shift very smoothly so I tried a variety of oils. The best I found was BelRay Big Twin Oil. It shifted the smoothest of everything I tried and banged into 1st with less of a clank than all of the others. I even tried Red Line Shock Proof, I didn't see any advantage using it and it was miserable flushing it out.
kk

[Alfetta]

Just to end this "oil" thread, I'll relate a story from my youth....

First job was at a full service gas station (somewhat dates me).
This station had a contract with a local city to service the police cursers.
I watched in amazement, when an officer came in and was complaining about a noisy rear end. So the station owner put the car on the lift, opened the fill plug in the differential, and slid in a pound of hot dogs !

I gave him a quizzical look and he said, it wont make a noise for 3 months...

so next time you are wondering about synthetic or non-synthetic, perhaps........ pork !

[Perazzimx14]

Just to end this "oil" thread, I'll relate a story from my youth....

First job was at a full service gas station (somewhat dates me).
This station had a contract with a local city to service the police cursers.
I watched in amazement, when an officer came in and was complaining about a noisy rear end. So the station owner put the car on the lift, opened the fill plug in the differential, and slid in a pound of hot dogs !

I gave him a quizzical look and he said, it wont make a noise for 3 months...

so next time you are wondering about synthetic or non-synthetic, perhaps........ pork !

All beef or pork lips and assholes?

Personally, I add 3 Vienna sausages to every tank of E-10 gas as fuel stabilizer. Seems to work. When they float I figure they are saturated with ethanol, so I pick them out grind them up mix in a dollop of Duke's mayo some chopped celery and a dash of Tenax Pete for a refreshing Vienna sausage salad sandwich.

[mechanicsavant]

My personal experience with 2 small blocks (V7II& V7/850) . I use synthetics in trans. & final drive . I change the trans. Twice as often as recommended. Trans seems to shift easier with fresh oil . Neutral is also easier to find. My MkII @ 25 kMi. Shifts like a Jap bike ! . My 850 @ 16k Mi. Is way better than new & seems to get better with passing miles . Just my $.02

[SmithSwede]

For what it may be worth.  I rode a 2013 V7 Stone just past 150,000 miles before I wrecked it and went Japanese. 

Always used Mobil 1 synthetic 75W-90 gear oil for transmission, and 75W-140 for final drive.

No leaks.  Never had a problem. 

[Tom H]

Thank you all again for the answers

Tom