oil leak

[OtisV11]

Going to replace crankshaft/timing cover oil seal on my old V11 sport,so does the new seal go on dry or with a smear of oil round the inner surface.Cheers folks

[John A]

Oil by all means. What kind of oil is the sticking point…. Oil threads go off the rails as a general internet rule so we may as well get this sucker off the ground right away. I prefer whale oil

[bigbikerrick]

I like to smear grease on the surface that contacts the spinning shaft, i just use a little bit is all you need.
Rick.

[guzziart]

FWIW, I replaced the original timing cover gasket on my '03 V11 Lemans last Spring with a "genuine" MG composite gasket.  It fit perfct, no slight distortions like the two aftermarket (composite & fiber) "will fits" I passed on.  I installed it dry, I tightened it down in a sequential criss cross pattern a little at a time until fully compressed then tightened bolts to full torque.....somethin g like 70/80 in.lbs as I recall.  Timing cover leak issue revolved.

Yeah, I know MG doesn't make their own gaskets but my experience with this particular issue seems to me that whomever is making these aftermarket gaskets is not stamping these out where all the bolt holes align and the gasket lies flat.  The gasket will lie flat but then the bolt holes don't line up or to get all the gasket bolt holes to line up results in the gasket not laying flat and having a buckled appearance.  However, that wasn't the case with a "genuine" Moto Guzzi packaged composite gasket I bought from Cadre Cycle in Cincy and it was comparably priced with aftermarket "will fits".

Additionally, while you're in there replacing the gasket, I'm sure you'll also replace the crank seal too.  The crank seal on some models rides on a spacer that slides over the crank and the spacer has an o-ring between the crank & spacer.  You may want to replace the oring too if this applys to your model.  If I remember, the illustrated parts breakdown shows the oring in the alternator area of the parts book....not the timing cover illustration.

Art

[Shiny Hat]

FWIW, I replaced the original timing cover gasket on my '03 V11 Lemans last Spring with a "genuine" MG composite gasket.  It fit perfct, no slight distortions like the two aftermarket (composite & fiber) "will fits" I passed on.  I installed it dry, I tightened it down in a sequential criss cross pattern a little at a time until fully compressed then tightened bolts to full torque.....somethin g like 70/80 in.lbs as I recall.  Timing cover leak issue revolved.

Yeah, I know MG doesn't make their own gaskets but my experience with this particular issue seems to me that whomever is making these aftermarket gaskets is not stamping these out where all the bolt holes align and the gasket lies flat.  The gasket will lie flat but then the bolt holes don't line up or to get all the gasket bolt holes to line up results in the gasket not laying flat and having a buckled appearance.  However, that wasn't the case with a "genuine" Moto Guzzi packaged composite gasket I bought from Cadre Cycle in Cincy and it was comparably priced with aftermarket "will fits".

Additionally, while you're in there replacing the gasket, I'm sure you'll also replace the crank seal too.  The crank seal on some models rides on a spacer that slides over the crank and the spacer has an o-ring between the crank & spacer.  You may want to replace the oring too if this applys to your model.  If I remember, the illustrated parts breakdown shows the oring in the alternator area of the parts book....not the timing cover illustration.

Art

This is the kind of post I was referencing in another thread and it’s very good with a lot of information.
Reasons are given as to the why, even added a torque spec with the “something like” which tells you to verify. Adding additional information regarding the O ring, well done. Someone unfamiliar would be well informed.

OP, I can read your question to mean either the gasket or crank seal and to answer both. I use a thin oil film on paper gaskets, on engines, when installing. Most others are put in as is. If replacing a seal use whatever it’s sealing as a lubricant, general rule unless the MFG states otherwise.
Oil for engine seals, brake fluid for brake parts, etc. (I have used general purpose grease on crank seals and some seals do come with a bead of grease on them).

[Moparnut72]

When I had to go into the timing case of my 12 valve Cummins the kit, gasket and seal, it came with a plastic sleeve to put on the shaft to slide the seal over so it wouldn't be damaged. When I had to go back in to do an additional modification I no longer had the sleeve so I cut one out of a plastic soda bottle. Worked great. I would try something similar.
kk

[Shiny Hat]

When I had to go into the timing case of my 12 valve Cummins the kit, gasket and seal, it came with a plastic sleeve to put on the shaft to slide the seal over so it wouldn't be damaged. When I had to go back in to do an additional modification I no longer had the sleeve so I cut one out of a plastic soda bottle. Worked great. I would try something similar.
kk

This, it’s priceless and will keep you from pulling the seal off to redo, especially if you have to install a case with the seal pre installed.
Sliding a seal over splines or key cut outs can damage a new seal. Plastic bottle, cheap, available, tapered to flare the seal and keep from rolling the lip. Heat shrink works as well, if you can find larger sizes.
Valve seal kits come with sleeves to keep from cutting the new seals or they should, if not, find something that will work (not an issue with some engines, no valve seals) It’s the simple things that can be the difference between success and failure.

[bigbikerrick]

Guzziart, I have experienced the same issues as you, with aftermarket timing case gaskets. I have one of the metal gaskets with a rubber embossed material on both sides, for next time. It is frustrating to get a gasket where the bolt holes dont line up,and you have to spray it with water to be able to fit it. I have neverhad to do this with good quality automotive gaskets such as fel-Pro brand.
Has anyone tried the metal gaskets? Do they seal any better than the paper gaskets smeared with permatex 300?
Rick

[guzziart]

Hi Rick,

The gasket I used on the timing cover repair was metal with some sort of extremely thin rubber-like coating on each side, that is why I referred to it as "composite".  It was definitely unlike the other ill-fitting composite gasket I bought from one of our popular aftermarket MG parts retailers.  I used no sealer or lube to install it, it fit great, didn't leak, I'm happy.  F those paper ones, that's what the factory put in in '03 when the bike was manufactured.  Based on some of the posts on the v11 Lemans board, the oe paper gaskets seem to leak at the same place at the upper right hand side of the engine.

Composite gasket on left is "aftermarket, on right is the genuine Moto Guzzi gasket....big difference imho.




Original paper gasket that failed/leaked at upper righthand (yellowish) area.  FWIW, There was zero evidence of gasket sealer, the gasket was easily removed from the cover without scrapping, etc.

[OtisV11]

Sorry guys i will be more specific,i am talking about the crankshaft oil seal in the timing cover not the gasket. Cheers

[guzziart]

   No problem!  I don't mind sharing my experiences and then some but if you're replacing the crankseal, after you get the seal out of the housing you might try yanking the spacer out that the seal rides on...if it is removable.  Because if it is removable, there is an oring between the spacer and the crank that you may want to replace while you're in there.  That oring can fail and it will look like a crank seal leak too.

Good Luck!
Art

[OtisV11]

Ok so i successfully replaced the timing cover seal but now theres no charge from the alternater and can i assume the rotor can only go on one way round Cheers 

[OtisV11]

All good now folks found 2 wires from the rectifier disconnected now have 13+ volts at the battery,to much brew last night eyesight was failing me.Have a  Merry Xmass everyone

[guzziart]

 

[Shiny Hat]

  No problem!  I don't mind sharing my experiences and then some but if you're replacing the crankseal, after you get the seal out of the housing you might try yanking the spacer out that the seal rides on...if it is removable.  Because if it is removable, there is an oring between the spacer and the crank that you may want to replace while you're in there.  That oring can fail and it will look like a crank seal leak too.

Good Luck!
Art

I started the hydro recall on my Stone and noted the O ring. The O ring on my bike goes inside the sleeve, there is a groove cut inside to accommodate the O ring. It keeps oil from wicking out between the shaft and sleeve.
Maybe they use a different method for different engines but this is just a heads up to look inside the sleeve and replace the O ring when changing the seal.

[OtisV11]

Your bang on the money shinny hat that sleeve has got the o ring inside the sleeve/spacer