V100 Mandello hydralic Clutch

[Rower30]

Hi All,

I am so, so spoiled by the V100S. I just went two ways 188 miles each way. Day one was 92 F, UGH. But the second leg back was 70F-82F and going East with the wind and also with the sun above me.  So wondeful on the Guzzi either way, honestly. The return trip was sublim. You never want it to end. This bike is the real deal everywhere I've used it. I have the GIVI touring fairing and run 70-75 MPH with it all the way down. Most bugs hit just above my face shield. I set the wings to work as I want; I set ROAD to be identical to TOUR such that the wings are retracted in ROAD. Retracted wing position creates more turbulance to cool you off above 85 F, and hell yes they work! Both TOUR and ROAD use SPORT throttle sensitivity as it feels more like a carburator.

I ran with the saddle bags full and the semi-active suspension felt way better than just me (140 pounds) on board. I'm just too light to center the suspension's needed weight against the spings.

So what do do in the saddle three and half hours except watch the average mileage climb to 54 MPG? Well, let's get picky about stuff. I don't like the hydralic clutch. Not because it is an easy pull. Not because it has poor feel (it does) but because the engagement point is way too close to the bars. I've adjusted the thumb screw on the level to move the engagement as far out as it can go, but with my index finger and middle finger (gloved) it can't be pulled in enough to shift well (it drags).  All finger off the handgrips and on the clutch pulled to the bars and it is fine but I don't like to drive like that. It drags other wise making shifting harder than proper.

The front brake is OK on engagement point, and is fine. It can be done.

The old 1992 BMW R100R was mechanical and had two engagment points at each cable end, so I can get that 100% perfect. Not to mention the dry clutch had excellent feel too. Oh well. Not sure why the hate on dry clutches. I'll take the wet clutch for the smaller torque reaction and all that but please let be adjust the engagement point to my liking.

Does anyone know if this single lever adjustment is what it is on the hydralic clutch, or is there an adjustment to move the engagement point out so it doesn't drag? To make matters worse, the quick shift does skirt the problem above 2nd gear but the 1-N-2 shifts is where I need it to work as a true clutch and fully disengage sooner than fully pulling the lever into the bars.

Comments? Experiences? Am I outnumbered and this and it is to be accepted with hydralic clutches?

Best all,
Galen

[azccj]

I too own the same bike, a 2023 V100s. And I too find the clutch is a bit odd. My clutch lever likes to pulsate a bit when I pull the lever in. As did the clutch levers on 2 other V100 Mandellos I tried out after I bought mine, so maybe it's normal for this MG model.  I find the engagement point on the bike's clutch just fine for me. I have big hands so I can adjust the lever throughout it's range without issue. As far as I can tell, the only adjustment that can be made for the clutch is at the lever.

[Rower30]

Where does yours engage and also not drag, though? Mine stops dragging ONLY if I bottom the lever out to the bars.I have no real "adjustment" range.

There was a slave cylinder change and I'll have to investigate what that fixed with ENZO MILLER at Cadre Cycles. I didn't notice it was "broken" until after the change. Not sure this would cause the problem but it is the only change I can think of.

Mine has never pulsed any or what call chatter. Smooth engagement but man, it is all the way to the bars to not drag.

Thank you.

[Huzo]

Have you bled the clutch circuit for air ?
Also with the lever fully out and driving, how far do you have to pull the lever in to begin to free the clutch ?
In other words…
What is the range between beginning of take up point, to fully home ? If for instance the workable range is say, 70% of the total available lever travel, is that 70% just too close to the ‘bars, or does the clutch need the entire available travel range to go from just “cracked” to fully disengaged ?

[Gliderjohn]

A couple years ago after a 700 mile hot day on the Norge the clutch started doing something like that. Changed out the fluid and bled. Been fine since.
GliderJohn

[Rower30]

Hi all,

My clutch has a LOT of initial free play before the plates begin to be moved. Probably 30% or more is just free play. To FULLY disengage the clutch it has to bottom the lever to the bars. I can shift 6 down 3 to with my index and middle finger on the clutch but 2-N-1 is not happening until the clutch is disengaged by move my ring and pinky on top of the clutch lever to make room to the bars. Aggravating.

I will quick go the Cadre cycles and check a few V100's there and determine if mine is "broken" or like all the rest. Not sure but I didn't have this problem earlier as I ride index/middle finger shifting for motocross days. it is what I do and feel comfortable with.

It does seem the slave cylinder is the only "adjustment" besides the screw on the clutch lever (already screwed all the way in). After that air in the system. They did do a slave cylinder update so maybe air.

[blu guzz]

I took a long ride on the used V100 they have or had.  I noticed nothing that seemed unusual with the clutch on that bike and it had under 2,000 miles on it.  If he still has it, you should try that one.

[Paul_Tim]

On the CARC bikes the hydraulic clutch operating mechanism has a pin in the lever that presses on the end of the piston in the master cylinder. This pin is fitted into the lever assembly on a screw thread and held in place by a small grub screw, there is a specification for the clearance between the end of the pin and the master cylinder but adjusting the pin in or out obviously adjusts the point at which pressure is applied to the cylinder and hence the operating point. I've not looked at the clutch lever/mechanism on the V100 but if it is similar there may be an opportunity for some further adjustment at this point.

[Huzo]

Why not just bleed the thing..?
Can you be more specific in your description of “free play”. That initial looseness in the lever, is it that the lever has to move that far before it contacts the master cylinder piston ?
Or…
The lever is contacting the piston, but compressing air for the first part of the travel and thus getting to the ‘bar before the clutch is fully freed.
The m/c piston may not be retracting fully back out and so not opening the communication port to allow fluid from the reservoir to flow into the cylinder.
Try that free play part of the stroke and let’s know if it is contacting the piston, if it’s not, it will feel VERY loose and floppy as if there was no piston in there.

[Rower30]

OK, it was air trapped after they did the slave cylinder update. I was pretty clear that the lever free play was BEFORE it moves the pressure cylinder.

I checked three V100’s and they were all fine. Mine was the odd one out. So that said it is the bike and it wasn’t thicker gloves or my head!

Now it is back to normal. A full bleed fixed it. Cadre Cycles, Enzo, emailed me late last night and we got it fixed  this afternoon. Great service. Never had a shop email me at 9:00PM.

Best,
Galen

[Huzo]

I was pretty clear that the lever free play was BEFORE it moves the pressure cylinder.

Yeah you were…sorry.
I glossed over the text too much, very glad you got it sorted. It’s a good feeling..

[Rower30]

You're good HUZO. That trapped air made the lever pull 30% of nothing until the air was compressed enough to be semi incompressible, and only then the plates start to move. So little air changes stuff so much!

A small amount of air goes a long way in the upper cylinder. I didn't want to do it myself as the bike is in warranty, and if a messed it up (there are always a way to do that!) and expect Cadre Cycles to fix it is rude. Out of warranty and I pay to have them fix my mistakes, well OK then. Once I use up user adjustments, best to let the shop take a look.

I was hoping there was something I wasn't seeing on hydralic clutch being new to these.

Best,
Galen

[Huzo]

Yeah, I always do my own stuff from new, but agreed, it is a slippery slope.

[Huzo]

This is rough but here goes…
If the centre point of your clutch lever is 4” from the pivot and the pivot to the actuating pin is 1”.. Then you have a 4:1 advantage, so a pull of say 4 lb at the lever, would be 16 lb at the piston…
If the piston was say one quarter of a square inch, then the pressure at the piston face would be 64 psi…
Given that ambient is 14 psi, that would mean you were applying almost 5 atmospheres of pressure in the fluid, so the air in the slave would have to compress to a fifth (or 20%) of the initial volume.
No wonder you were losing a major portion of your displacement (stroke).

[blu guzz]

Glad to hear that Enzo and the boys sorted your problem.  I liked the clutch on the V100 at least as much as the one on my former V85.

[Rower30]

I like the V100S clutch, too, except that clunk into gear. Once moving it is all good. My quick shifter is 3-6 up or down is fine, too. I will say that the the engagement point is softer than a dry clutch and you get used to that precision with dry clutches. It isn't a deal breaker on the muti-plate wet, but you will feel it. Mine was OK, then went AWOL on me and I connected the dots to the slave cylinder update. I hope it was that or I have a leak I can't detect (no fluid loss) letting air in. But it didn't go AWOL over time. So that suggest something else somehow let air in all at once.

As far as the clutch lever goes, the bike's spirit resides a good portion in the clutch feel. A bad clutch can ruin a great chassis and engine, just saying.

Best,
Galen