introduction and question

[Zimmermichaels1ea]

Hello all,

I'm a 62 year old beginner (again) rider.  I last rode a 75 Honda CB750 some 40 years ago.  With the kids grown and gone and the wife now an ex, I figured it was a good time to get back to riding!

I'm purchasing a new bike because, we'll, I can!

I've only two choices that speak to me:
1. A lovely Moto Guzzi V7 Special in white with red stripes and spoked wheels.
And
2. A Kawasaki W800

I live in Wisconsin and the one and only dealer for Moto Guzzi is about 85 miles away from my house.  Of course, Kawasaki dealers are all over.

The V7 is waaaay too cool!!

My only concerns are these:
The V7 IS too much bike for a beginner.?
All I hear is that Guzzis are hard to repair, and repairs take months.
I've been counseled that downshifting in a Guzzi is dangerous because it's too easy to shift twice and lock up the back wheel.
Myth or partially factual?

Of course the Kawasaki dealers tells me that the assist & slipper clutch makes the W800 far safer than a V7, not to mention the Kawasaki neutral finder.

However, the V7 Special seems to me to be like a rumbling musclecar, and the W800 seems like a rumbling family sedan.
Is this my imagination?

Any thoughts, advice, real-world experiences you can communicate to me will be most welcome.
Help push me off the fence one way or another!

[kfz]

Welcome.

The W800 is a great bike and lovely styling, its not a bad position to be i!  Both bikes are great choice for a return to biking.

  Here my take on it....

Firstly forget all the bullshit about torque reactions and downshifts,  Guzzi where dominating GP's when K was copying BSA's.  Th V7 handles just fine.  A day on the V7 and youl' be rite. Guzzi respond to a traditional riding style,  you'll be right at home. 

I'd go for the Guzzi , 2 big advantages of the K.  Shaft  drive  vs Chain  and Vtwin vs parallel twin. 

The lack f dealers isa real concern.  If you can service the bike yourself that will really take the pressure off the lack of dealers,  its very straightforward.

Kev

[red stripeguz]

I bought a lovely V7 in white with red stripes and spoked wheels as my first bike almost exactly 6 months ago. I think it's a perfect 1st bike, not so much power you can really get in trouble, plenty of torque for when your gear selection is a bit off (decision making, not mechanically).
No idea why anyone with a bit of Moto Guzzi knowledge would say they are hard to work on. With the engine layout, valve adjustments literally could not be easier, shaft drive so you don't even need to learn how to keep up with a chain. Sure the gearbox drain is in an interesting spot but if you've done oil changes in vehicles you've dealt with far worse.
The "downshifting 2 gears by mistake" is a thing I've never heard of. Guzzi gearboxes have a very solid feel to them and each gear is a solid thunk knowing they're there. Neutral is a little tough to find but with age and experience mine is getting easier. I've been commuting with mine and you can play in the friction zone just fine with the Guzzi dry clutch (I do wonder how much wear I'm putting on it but clutch jobs don't seem to be a popular topic on the forums so I try not to overthink it)
My salesman (I'm lucky to live in same area as AF1) had me sit on one to experience the torque twist of the engine layout for fun but in all honesty it's never something that I've really noticed when riding

[Tkelly]

Since you rode a 750 Honda the v7 is definitely not too much bike.If it fits you ,buy it you get the bonus of the best and friendliest riders to hang out with,join the Wisconsin Moto Guzzi riders ,next meeting is second Sunday in November.

[guzzisteve]

Welcome, one PLUS for the Guzzi is the club in WI----------------------------

https://wmgr.org/

Tom beat me to it

[Dirk_S]

Standard maintenance service, the Guzzi is easy. The difficult part is if you have to get into the motor; like a BMW boxer, they’re set up like an automotive motor, so to get to the gearing and clutch, you’re going the route that a proctologist knows all too well. That said, if you have automotive repair experience or know someone who does, it would be very familiar territory.

Even a person who doesn’t have automotive mechanic experience can do the work, provided they have the garage space. The added plus is the entire drive train separates from the chassis for more convenience, or you can crib the frame (I finally used the right term, right???) and simply get into the motor with it all mostly attached. All that is with the assumption that you actually need to dive into the machine—the clutches and engines in general are pretty durable.

Personally, I’d love to own a W800, but I’m glad I picked the Guzzi V7.

[Kev m]

I live in Wisconsin and the one and only dealer for Moto Guzzi is about 85 miles away from my house.  Of course, Kawasaki dealers are all over.

The V7 is waaaay too cool!!

My only concerns are these:
The V7 IS too much bike for a beginner.?
All I hear is that Guzzis are hard to repair, and repairs take months.
I've been counseled that downshifting in a Guzzi is dangerous because it's too easy to shift twice and lock up the back wheel.
Myth or partially factual?

Of course the Kawasaki dealers tells me that the assist & slipper clutch makes the W800 far safer than a V7, not to mention the Kawasaki neutral finder.

I really like the W650 and W800 and put a fair amount of miles on the former. But when push came to shove and I had the opportunity to add it to the fleet cheap I passed.

I prefer the V7 over it for cast wheels, easy valve adjustment, and shaft drive, though I might also prefer the feel of the Guzzi as well.

My only hesitance to recommending it over the Kawi is your proximity to a dealer and THAT is dependent on your desire and ability to perform basic maintenance or repairs.

If you're good with working on it I think you already sound like you want the Guzzi so get that.

To directly address your myth list

* Not too much bike for a beginner
* Not hard to repair and in two decades I've never had to wait longer than a week for parts
* You can't shift twice unless you fully unload the shifter and press again. But even then you don't need a slipper clutch and I can't think of a time anyone I know has locked a rear wheel during a downshift, even if they did rapidly bang/release/bang. I think you'd have to be actively Fng around to accomplish something like that.

Sadly it sounds like a smarmy and disingenuous sales pitch.

"Far safer" - ridiculous.

But I like the W800 too ...

Have fun.

[Perazzimx14]

I wonder if you aske this same question on a Kawasaki site what they would suggest.

To the OP I say get the bike you like the best and hope if works for you and how you want ride. If not sell it and get something else. While I would encourage you to buy used at least until you really figure out what you want, its your money spend it how you want.

FWIW I like slipper clutches but not billed as a safety device but more so it saves the rear tire so you get more longevity out of it.

[Frulk]

85 miles to a dealer? I can only DREAM about being that close to a reliable Guzzi mechanic. If I was I’d have 2/3 in the garage vs. only one.

[Moparnut72]

The It's are bullet proof, no need to worry. All brands are 85 miles from me including auto dealers, no big deal. I like my V7lll a lot and will be with me until I am no longer able to ride. Get the Guzzi, you won't be sorry.
kk

[faffi]

As one said above, you are the one that can make the best choice. For you. What you find of importance. Both bikes are easy to ride. Both are kind of retro, but the Kawasaki is more similar to the old CB750 than the V7 850, which is a more modern machine in the way it rides. Which means that the Guzzi will be better if you want to ride quickly down a winding road, due to better suspension and more power and better brakes. The W800 is softer and more relaxed, it really is old tech in many ways, with an engine that is close to indestructible and better build quality that what could be had last time you rode.

Both the W and the V7 are well made. Both are reliable. Both are easy to maintain, but have their own peculiarities. While adjusting the valves on a Guzzi is dead simple, it is even simpler and quicker on the W800. Provided you have the required shims on hand. Which you probably do not. Changing spark plugs is also easier on the Kawasaki, because it does not have the vanity covers of the Guzzi. Both have wire wheels that will require truing and tightening once in a while. The chain final drive on the W will demand more attention than the shaft on the V7. If you plan to use a dealer for all services, only the chain maintenance is worth thinking about. And if you plan to do everything yourself, you do not have to worry about dealers.

While it is not sensible to buy a bike based on youtube inputs alone, and especially not forums like this reply from me, videos can help you in your choice.

This is a good and fun report on the W800
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSE73I4LXe4&pp=ygULdzgwMCBtYXJsb24%3D

And one on the V7 in question
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=LZn5DpUdblg

[Zimmermichaels1ea]

Thanks all for the great answers! And for giving me credit for riding a 750Four way back in the early 80's.  That's so long ago I can't even remember how terrifyingly fast that bike could go and how fast the rear drum faded trying to slow her down!

You're right, I am leaning towards the V7.  I'm going to test ride both in the next week or so and hopefully that will put my mind at rest.

Thanks for addressing those nuggets of "common knowledge" that various riders and sales people toss about re: Moto Guzzi reliability and safety. 

[Zimmermichaels1ea]

Traction Control System
This to me, at least on paper, is a great idea.
Do you all find it useful in real riding?

[Kev m]

Traction Control System
This to me, at least on paper, is a great idea.
Do you all find it useful in real riding?

Eeehhh.... I think I've mostly heard tales of how of freaks people out the first time they feel it engage and most people seem to set it to minimal interference after that first time.

In theory it sounds good and perhaps it helps someone here or there.

I imagine the ABS is much more helpful in reality though.

[Tkelly]

All new motorcycles are good and reliable  but the others are not Guzzis.Sort of like what the Harley riders say but especially true with Guzzis.

[faffi]

Traction Control System
This to me, at least on paper, is a great idea.
Do you all find it useful in real riding?

I have a Gen 1 V9 Roamer, same engine as the V7 850, but with less top end power, although more low end punch. I personally would like the bike better without T/C. In rain mode, it is so sensitive, the engine will stall when taking off normally unless the engine is fully warm. Riding in the dirt or on soft gravel is next to impossible. The standard mode, however, does not intrude often, but it is also too slow to react if it is really slick, so you are still spinning and sliding. But if you want to spin the tire to do a drift on gravel, the engine will stutter and upset your rhythm significantly. The T/C is not smooth, it just cuts the engine then comes back with full power and repeat. Reminds me of my old Ford Scorpio from the 90s. Really crude. I will say it is rubbish. It may be better today, as mine was made in 2017.

On gravel, I turn T/C off. Unfortunately, every time you turn off the ignition, you must cycle the T/C off again. And you have an annoying yellow light in the speedo to warn you of your carelessness. At all other times, I just leave it in the normal mode, where I rarely notice it on dry roads, while it is not doing anything to assist on wet roads that are slick due to oil spills or rubber remains etc. 

[jrt]

Folks are mentioning how easy the maintenance is, without saying what it is.   And it is pretty easy-
oil change- drains out the drain bolt.  You'll need a new crush washer and some would suggest using a torque wrench, but some will say it isn't necessary.
less common filter change- one bolt and you'll need a new crush washer.  Rarely, you might need to replace an o-ring.
Both of those are on the bottom of the crankcase.
Rarely change the oil in the transmission and the final drive.  Some bikes (some years??? has this been addressed) are very sensitive the volume of oil in the final drive. 
The most involved maintenance is setting the valves (used to be 2000 miles, I suspect it is much longer now between service intervals).  For this, you remove the spark plugs, pop off the valve covers, and put the engine at exhaust TDC (use 5th gear and turn the rear wheel).  Measure with a feeler gauge, set them if needed.  They are solid lifters, adjustment is just a locknut and screw.  Then replace the valve cover.  First one side, then the other.
It takes about as much time as it took me to write that (well, ok, a bit longer).  It is about that simple.
In truth- you'll probably never use the ABS.  If you really need to- it works and slows you down faster than skidding a rear tire and less drama than washing out a front tire. 

[majstevetrevor]

Also a good (non Guzzi) garage can of course work on the V7. Everything but turn off the wrench icon I imagine..

[faffi]

Also a good (non Guzzi) garage can of course work on the V7. Everything but turn off the wrench icon I imagine..

Interestingly enough, mine have 9000 miles on it, and service lamp have never lit up...

[Vagrant]

We are all assuming you are referring to a new v7-850 not a 2010 or so. Is that right? If so buy the v7.

[blu guzz]

You know, we are only talking about 40 rear wheel horsepower here.  Of course, it is enough to get in trouble with if you ride over your head.  Even a moped can be dangerous.  As a seasoned rider, I really don't see you having a problem with power on either bike.  On your test ride, remember that the Guzzi is not a Harley so keep the engine spinning over 3,000 at a minimum and 3,500 as a preference.  Otherwise, you probably won't understand how it is meant to run or enjoy it very much.  If this bike is used, check the tire condition as they do not feel their best with worn tires and take that into consideration.  It should feel very light and willing to turn.  They are very sensitive to tires. 
Let us know what you thought whichever direction you go.

[T607]

@ jrt: Are you sure that the valves are checked/set at exhaust TDC? I would think that this is done at compression TDC with both valves closed.

[Kev m]

@ jrt: Are you sure that the valves are checked/set at exhaust TDC? I would think that this is done at compression TDC with both valves closed.

I'm sure he just misspoke and there were other small problems with the data in the post like valve adjustment is something is much less frequent than he suggested and stuff like that but he got the gist right...

[Perazzimx14]

Traction Control System
This to me, at least on paper, is a great idea.
Do you all find it useful in real riding?

Traction control and all the other nanny aids can be great especially if you do not notice they are doing their thing. The TC on my Hexhead GS's compared to my LC GS's is not even in the same ball park. But 15 years of technology will do that.

I can say I don't mind bikes with TC the same as I don't mind bike w/o TC. I could say the same for ABS

[Dirk_S]

You know, we are only talking about 40 rear wheel horsepower here.

On the new V7s? More like 52’ish RWHP, with 60 hp at the crank, right? I assume a new Guzzi has a bit more punch and grunt over the W800.

[Bulldog9]

Lots of great advice here.

I'll just say you need to ride both and spend some time messing with the switch gear clutch brake in general feel of the bike and let it speak to you.

My obvious choice would be the Guzzi. As others have said maintenance is super easy, and of course it has Shaft Drive.

I am by no means and an expert, but I have been riding Moto Guzzi exclusively since 2015. I have four in the fleet soon to add a fifth. I have not had one single mechanical issue. A little sorting and tuning but they are dead reliable.

I bought my v7ii Stornello new in 2018. (Left over 2016 model) I have put 12,000 trouble-free miles on it. Not a single issue or need to see the dealer. I do all my servicing. In fact, due to my job I had to leave it in storage for the last 2 and 1/2 years. Pull it out this week filled it with fuel new battery, and it started right up and it went on a nice 75 mile ride. For me it is a near perfect motorcycle.

You really can't go wrong with either one the w800 is a great bike but I don't think there's comparison between motor feel in general overall character between the two. It really is what speaks to you most.

Secondly, and this is just my over cautious nature. Buy $1,000 beater you're not going to worry about dropping a few times as you get your wheels back underneath you. I hate to see your beautiful new bike no matter what it is dropped and scratched and it's having to be replaced. Of course that's always a possibility, dummy me dropped my V7 in the garage this week out of carelessness. I meant the rear brake lever and had to take it all apart and bend it back into place.

Welcome to the madness.

[drdwb]

Zimmer
Be warned, should you decide on the Guzzi, If you hang around here much and I’d suggest you do, if you get the Guzzi, you will soon notice that a lot of the members /Guzzi owners, like the last post by Bulldog points out, have become owners of multiple Guzzi’s. It is a insidious disease that a person in your position (recently divorced, kids gone) is prone to. I and my wife were exposed in 2004 and now have four. so even remaining married doesn’t inoculate one from this disease. You will find a lot of the members here have 2, some of the chronically infected here have admitted to owning 7 or more.

Also be aware the support group for this disease ( State Rallies) won’t prevent but often encourages the malignant progression of this disease. By the way Wisconsin consistently has one of the best Guzzi rallies to attend and observe this disease. Even if you don’t ride a Guzzi.

In any case welcome back to riding no matter which brand you decide to ride.

[twowheeladdict]

I have ridden the W800 on multiple occasions and have owned a 2010 V7 and currently own a 2018 V7.  I have also ridden the new V7 850.

IMO the W800 is an amazing old school motorcycle with mostly metal parts and a high quality build.  I would love to own one.  But, and this is a big but, it rides like a 1960s motorcycle regarding handling, vibration, etc. 

The Moto Guzzi V7III and V7 850 ride like modern motorcycles and all the advantages that come from riding modern motorcycles. 

It really depends on what you are after with your riding experience. 

If you can try and arrange for a test ride on both after you have taken the MSF course and gotten the rust out of  your riding skills.

[red stripeguz]

Interestingly enough, mine have 9000 miles on it, and service lamp have never lit up...

I have 4500 miles, light never came on for my 900 mile service, have to see if it does for my upcoming 6000

[Zimmermichaels1ea]

Here's an update:  I got a nice deal on a new, 2023 V7 Special