New V7 Sport

[faffi]

You explain how your comparison of a 1978 air-cooled 6-cyl CBX to a liquid-cooled inline 4 CBR says anything about an 850cc air cooled V-twin making 100 HP and meeting current regulations?

Even the Ducatis and BMWs in that size range fall shy. And to get close they are running maintenance intensive/expensive designs.

That's about as relevant to Guzzi as a turbo-charged Alfa Romeo.

I will give you a point there, and I will stop beating the dead horse soon, but the Ducati 796 made 88 PS and had a 12,000 km service interval. The Guzzi 85TT make 80 PS and is not tuned to the hilt. I am not saying a 100 PS 850 would be the best option, or something I would want, only that it is possible. And at least a 2024 850 should be significantly more powerful, frugal and reliable than a 750 made 50+ years ago.

[blu guzz]

I'm pretty sure they could get 100 by 4 valving the 850 and lightening all moving parts and if there is any room, punching it out a little.  But would it feel like the bikes we are used to and say we love?  That extra HP would be up high and come at the expense of the bike being less torquey down low.  Do we really want a Guzzi with a 10,000 rpm redline?  What cost for a bike that won't sell 5,000 copies worldwide in a year? I am sure that Piaggio can do math.

[twowheeladdict]

I don’t think anyone expects or is asking for a sportbike from the small block range. But the word ‘sport’ meant something. Just like the word scrambler. Cafe. SUV. Adventure. Le Mans. Trials. This is beating a dead horse, I know, but also—Guzzi sure does like to recycle the same words, seemingly a lot more than other brands, but perhaps not. Most of them do it, but just as much?

I do think it’s funny that we’re still pushing the “V7” monicker, when we’re now in the—2nd? 3rd?—iteration of the E5 850cc motor. But hey, I guess it could be worse—we could be Funduro owners.

Maybe I am out of touch here, but to me Sport doesn't mean HP.  To me Sport means handling.  Sport tuned Suspension.  Sporty riding position.  Brakes able to bring the speeds down at the last secon and not fade durung the ride.Anyone can go fast in a straight line, and power doesn't make you faster in the twisties. 

[Kev m]

I will give you a point there, and I will stop beating the dead horse soon, but the Ducati 796 made 88 PS and had a 12,000 km service interval. The Guzzi 85TT make 80 PS and is not tuned to the hilt. I am not saying a 100 PS 850 would be the best option, or something I would want, only that it is possible. And at least a 2024 850 should be significantly more powerful, frugal and reliable than a 750 made 50+ years ago.

I do hear those who like more peaky HP and want something more lively. But even if they COULD do that, I completely get why they are not based on the character/feel of the bike.

That said I will continue to point out that your 100 HP figure for an air-cooled 850 and modern emissions (possibly even ignoring emissions) is just out of reach based on the fact that no one is doing it. Hell they aren't even coming close.

Arguably the closest you get from another OEM is the 73 HP 800cc air cooled desmo Scrambler. But desmo service costs are a significant differential. Trust me we just dropped off Jenn's Monster for a complete service that is so expensive that if we do it 3 times we will have bought the bike twice!

BMW has a 110 HP air-cooled twin (R9T and now R12), but they are 4V/cylinder, also more work for maintenance, and most importantly 1200cc

Triumph has the liquid cooled, shim/bucket valve train 900cc T100 and it's only 64 HP.

Hell even the V85 is only 80 HP for a reason. And I'm going in the record one last time saying I don't really like that bike or motor. It felt too much like my wife's Ducati.

[twowheeladdict]

I do hear those who like more peaky HP and want something more lively. But even if they COULD do that, I completely get why they are not based on the character/feel of the bike.

That said I will continue to point out that your 100 HP figure for an air-cooled 850 and modern emissions (possibly even ignoring emissions) is just out of reach based on the fact that no one is doing it. Hell they aren't even coming close.

Arguably the closest you get from another OEM is the 73 HP 800cc air cooled desmo Scrambler. But desmo service costs are a significant differential. Trust me we just dropped off Jenn's Monster for a complete service that is so expensive that if we do it 3 times we will have bought the bike twice!

BMW has a 110 HP air-cooled twin (R9T and now R12), but they are 4V/cylinder, also more work for maintenance, and most importantly 1200ccP

Triumph has the liquid cooled, shim/bucket valve train 900cc T100 and it's only 64 HP.

Hell even the V85 is only 80 HP for a reason. And I'm going in the record one last time saying I don't really like that bike or motor. It felt too much like my wife's Ducati.

They actually reduced the Hp on my 2022, but supposedly give a little more torque lower in the Rev Range.  It is now 76 hp.

[Kev m]

They actually reduced the Hp on my 2022, but supposedly give a little more torque lower in the Rev Range.  It is now 76 hp.

Yeah but they've rated it back to 80 since ... No idea on the details in each case.

[inditx]

I do hear those who like more peaky HP and want something more lively. But even if they COULD do that, I completely get why they are not based on the character/feel of the bike.

That said I will continue to point out that your 100 HP figure for an air-cooled 850 and modern emissions (possibly even ignoring emissions) is just out of reach based on the fact that no one is doing it. Hell they aren't even coming close.

Arguably the closest you get from another OEM is the 73 HP 800cc air cooled desmo Scrambler. But desmo service costs are a significant differential. Trust me we just dropped off Jenn's Monster for a complete service that is so expensive that if we do it 3 times we will have bought the bike twice!

BMW has a 110 HP air-cooled twin (R9T and now R12), but they are 4V/cylinder, also more work for maintenance, and most importantly 1200cc

Triumph has the liquid cooled, shim/bucket valve train 900cc T100 and it's only 64 HP.

Hell even the V85 is only 80 HP for a reason. And I'm going in the record one last time saying I don't really like that bike or motor. It felt too much like my wife's Ducati.

I hear ya Kev but with the exhaust replaced and decat my 2023 V85 has a lot of character and might be close to the hp/torque figures on the 2025 model. Don't know the butt dyno as I haven’t ridden a 2025 model but I will. Still, the older V9 lump is still one of, if not the best motors Guzzi ever produced imho.
Oh and let’s not forget the sound/rumble of a well sorted Guzzi with proper exhaust etc. Glorious and manly too. Lol
inditx

[Joliet Jim]

I think if I wanted a Guzzi sporty bike, I already have it. 92 rwhp, handles like it's on rails, great for sport touring and rally going, big air cooled motor, great riding position. A little heavy but disappears underway. Just have to go back in time 27 years.

Just can't seem to like the look of the v7 series.

[Bulldog9]

I think it is sad that most commentary on this is negative. I'm as tired as anyone of Guzzi slapping colors on the same bike (V7/9 as anyone, but to finally see twin discs, adjustable reverse front forks, sport mode to go along with the new TBW throttle that effects the cornering ABS, and several other changes and improvements over the standard v7 line.

I see people saying it doesn't deserve the name, but given modern realties and constraints, what WOULD make it worthy of the V7 sport moniker??

I know the original V7 Sport has cult following, but if wager compared to the UJMs of its day, it too was a mediocre performer.

Nothing game changing for sure, but looks to me to be the best iteration of the modern V7 line, even if it doesn't have a red frame or color matched rear fender. Sure, the 52mm TB, lighter valve train and 80hp motor from the V85 may have made the Sport more distinct, but......

Embrace it and be happy they are investing in the air cooled motors and doing more than just a design color scheme on the V7

[Kev m]

Nothing game changing for sure, but looks to me to be the best iteration of the modern V7 line, even if it doesn't have a red frame or color matched rear fender. Sure, the 52mm TB, lighter valve train and 80hp motor from the V85 may have made the Sport more distinct, but......

Fwiw it DID get the 52 mm throttle body. I was pleasantly surprised by that.

[Walton]

I know the original V7 Sport has cult following, but if wager compared to the UJMs of its day, it too was a mediocre performer.

How much you want to to wager?

[Kev m]

How much you want to to wager?

Cam already weighed in on his.

[ff73148]

I do hear those who like more peaky HP and want something more lively. But even if they COULD do that, I completely get why they are not based on the character/feel of the bike.

That said I will continue to point out that your 100 HP figure for an air-cooled 850 and modern emissions (possibly even ignoring emissions) is just out of reach based on the fact that no one is doing it. Hell they aren't even coming close.

Arguably the closest you get from another OEM is the 73 HP 800cc air cooled desmo Scrambler. But desmo service costs are a significant differential. Trust me we just dropped off Jenn's Monster for a complete service that is so expensive that if we do it 3 times we will have bought the bike twice!

BMW has a 110 HP air-cooled twin (R9T and now R12), but they are 4V/cylinder, also more work for maintenance, and most importantly 1200cc

Triumph has the liquid cooled, shim/bucket valve train 900cc T100 and it's only 64 HP.

Hell even the V85 is only 80 HP for a reason. And I'm going in the record one last time saying I don't really like that bike or motor. It felt too much like my wife's Ducati.

Kev,
It pained me to give up my Eldorado because I loved the HP. But the weight of the bike was getting to me. At 76 I wanted a lighter bike but I didn't want to give up the HP. Thus I bought the BMW R12. I wished the MG had something comparable, comfortable and with a low seat height. At least I'm still on an air/oil cooled machine.

[PeteS]

The MG website seems a bit confusing. It mentions the new V7s have the 850 motor taken from the V85tt but still lists max HP at 65??? Also photos of the motor appear to be similar to the V7 and not the V85 at least in regards to the valve covers.

I am not a buyer here but a V7 with the 80 HP motor and appearance more like the 1000S with stripped gas tank and chrome exhausts would fly off the dealers floors. At least be competitive with some of the middleweight sport bikes.

Pete

[inditx]

The R12R is a nice ride!
What year did you get?
Inditx

[Walton]

Cam already weighed in on his.

Cam? You either can't read or need to up your trifocal prescription.

"MEDIOCRE COMPARED TO UJMS OF IT'S DAY"

That's a stretch for the first production motorcycle to top 200kmh.  No Guzzi since that time has ever been as close to the top of the world motorcycle pile since the first Sport.  Not the Lemans, Daytona, mgs01. The new v7s have be moved to the bottom of the pile with all the other retros aimed at boomers, women and beginners

[Yan]

...
That said I will continue to point out that your 100 HP figure for an air-cooled 850 and modern emissions (possibly even ignoring emissions) is just out of reach based on the fact that no one is doing it. Hell they aren't even coming close.

Arguably the closest you get from another OEM is the 73 HP 800cc air cooled desmo Scrambler. But desmo service costs are a significant differential. Trust me we just dropped off Jenn's Monster for a complete service that is so expensive that if we do it 3 times we will have bought the bike twice!

BMW has a 110 HP air-cooled twin (R9T and now R12), but they are 4V/cylinder, also more work for maintenance, and most importantly 1200cc

Triumph has the liquid cooled, shim/bucket valve train 900cc T100 and it's only 64 HP.

Hell even the V85 is only 80 HP for a reason. And I'm going in the record one last time saying I don't really like that bike or motor. It felt too much like my wife's Ducati.

"The 2013 Moto Guzzi Griso 1200 8V SE with its 1,151cc four-stroke air-cooled V-twin engine delivers an output power of 110 hp"  (but admittedly didn't meet modern emissions standards)

[bad Chad]

The Griso you reference also was a 4V motor.

The v7 sport was competitive, for a short time in endurance racing.  What it wasn't, was a massive advantage over the competition.  (once again see G Field's book  MG Big Twins.

[twowheeladdict]

Kev,
It pained me to give up my Eldorado because I loved the HP. But the weight of the bike was getting to me. At 76 I wanted a lighter bike but I didn't want to give up the HP. Thus I bought the BMW R12. I wished the MG had something comparable, comfortable and with a low seat height. At least I'm still on an air/oil cooled machine.

when you ride the R12 how often are you revving to 6,000 RPMs?  Every shift?  10% of the time?  Somewhere else?

[Kev m]

Cam? You either can't read or need to up your trifocal prescription.

"MEDIOCRE COMPARED TO UJMS OF IT'S DAY"

Please try to keep up. Yes Cam, the person who posted a pic of his V7 Sport, the same one that I've ridden, who I'm saying also seems to support Steve's (Bulldog's) assertions.

The MG website seems a bit confusing. It mentions the new V7s have the 850 motor taken from the V85tt but still lists max HP at 65??? Also photos of the motor appear to be similar to the V7 and not the V85 at least in regards to the valve covers.

Don't be fooled by marketing speak. It's similar size and basic architecture but obviously not the whole actual V85 mill.

[Kev m]

"The 2013 Moto Guzzi Griso 1200 8V SE with its 1,151cc four-stroke air-cooled V-twin engine delivers an output power of 110 hp"  (but admittedly didn't meet modern emissions standards)

This didn't contradict anything I've said. It takes 1200cc and 4V heads at minimum with modern emissions on an air-cooled motor. 850 is not enough

[ff73148]

when you ride the R12 how often are you revving to 6,000 RPMs?  Every shift?  10% of the time?  Somewhere else?

Obviously it is not necessary to rev 6,000 RPM to shift. But having a four valve engine give me the torque curve I desire.

[twowheeladdict]

Obviously it is not necessary to rev 6,000 RPM to shift. But having a four valve engine give me the torque curve I desire.

So, it is not about HP.  It is about torque.  6000 RPMs is where you get your peak HP on the R12 according to my internet search. 

[faffi]

So, it is not about HP.  It is about torque.  6000 RPMs is where you get your peak HP on the R12 according to my internet search.

Their homepage say 95 PS @ 6500 rpm and 110 Nm @ 6000 rpm.

[twowheeladdict]

Their homepage say 95 PS @ 6500 rpm and 110 Nm @ 6000 rpm.

So unless you are running at those RPMs you are not using 95 HP or 110 Nm of torque. 

[bad Chad]

"I can't stop Honey, someone is wrong on the internet!"

[faffi]

So unless you are running at those RPMs you are not using 95 HP or 110 Nm of torque.

Unless the throttle is pinned, the engine will not make those numbers at those rpm anyway - at 6500 rpm the engine can make anything between 0 and 95 horsepower - but you will be correct in assuming that above or below those rpm numbers, the engine's potential is less than the maximum figures listed.

[inditx]

Off thread here, ff73148 says he likes the torque curve of the R12R.

Now let’s return to our original V7 Sport (gasp) thread. 

inditx

[Kev m]

Off thread here, ff73148 says he likes the torque curve of the R12R.

Now let’s return to our original V7 Sport (gasp) thread. 

inditx

Or maybe we run with it as part of the same discussion.

What makes a bike enjoyable? It's the HP/torque curves. A race bike can be all peak if it's run mostly at wot, but a street bike is often more fun with a wider and flatter curve.

But tastes vary.

Me? I don't need the peaks as much as I want the broad and flat curve.

But 4V motors can give both. So I get why that R12 or Griso can be so much fun.

I really enjoy the efficiency and size of the smallblock so I'm less concerned with peak numbers.

Fwiw the new V7 Sport reportedly is up to 58 ft lbs of torque @ 4400 rpm (compared to the 53 @ 5000 of the previous 850).

So that's encouraging already, but maybe more importantly MG is claiming that you get 95% of that by 3500 rpm which suggests a nice flat usable curve. But we'll see once someone puts one on a dyno.

[inditx]

So that torque availability should be more like the 2025 V85 with vvt then supposedly.
inditx