Author Topic: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)  (Read 3780 times)

Offline dbarale

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New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« on: December 05, 2024, 07:11:44 PM »
Hi, new guy here with a doomed project and plenty of idiotic questions.
I was given a pile of parts that amount to about 90% of a 1982 V50. The goal is NOT to restore it, just restart it. I like bikes that are mechanically sound but look… well used?

The good news is that I promise to not make any changes that are not reversible, but it will not be completely original either. I’m planning on using used Japanese components for electrical and brakes.

Anyway, and my first question: I am missing the starter and exhaust system. Two things that I will need to run and test the motor. Are there any other years/models that are compatible so I can broaden the search?

Thanks in advance.








Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2024, 07:17:28 PM »
The starter is easy - these Valeo copies work great. https://www.ebay.com/itm/156459835918

'82 should be a V50 III, but the tank looks like V50 II. The exhaust is the same on the V50 II, III and Monza. I'll have to check my stash, but I may have a pair of (crusty) header pipes.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2024, 07:25:03 PM by Antietam Classic Cycle »
Charlie

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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2024, 07:46:55 PM »
Wow, parts everywhere.
The head hasn't changed across all v50 models, so the headers of any v50 years will fit.
Easy to tell by looking at the specs in the shop manuals.  Even V65 headers should fit.
In case you haven't found it yet, shop manuals at thisoldtractor.com



The mufflers will depend on attachment points at the rear of the frame.
I'm curious to see your progress on this project.
Happy wrenching.
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Ascolta sempre e solo musica vera
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Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2024, 08:27:50 PM »
Wow, parts everywhere.
The head hasn't changed across all v50 models, so the headers of any v50 years will fit.
Easy to tell by looking at the specs in the shop manuals.  Even V65 headers should fit.
In case you haven't found it yet, shop manuals at thisoldtractor.com



The mufflers will depend on attachment points at the rear of the frame.
I'm curious to see your progress on this project.
Happy wrenching.

Valve sizes increased for the III, Monza and V65. Part numbers for the header pipes changed several times, so there must be a difference (pipe diameter?).
Charlie

Wildguzzi.com

Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2024, 08:27:50 PM »

Offline dbarale

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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2024, 08:36:30 PM »
Wow, parts everywhere.
The head hasn't changed across all v50 models, so the headers of any v50 years will fit.
Easy to tell by looking at the specs in the shop manuals.  Even V65 headers should fit.
In case you haven't found it yet, shop manuals at thisoldtractor.com




The mufflers will depend on attachment points at the rear of the frame.
I'm curious to see your progress on this project.
Happy wrenching.

Thanks. Step one is to do a rough assembly to see what is missing. Then engine restart and drivetrain/chassis.

I did the manuals from Greg Bender’s site. I have no experience with Guzzi but I have turned a wrench or two before. I have no illusions as to the final results, or costs involved in this project. But I enjoy the puzzle.

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2024, 08:46:16 PM »
Complete exhaust on ebay, cheap. https://www.ebay.com/itm/355425389576
Charlie

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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2024, 10:48:56 PM »
Valve sizes increased for the III, Monza and V65. Part numbers for the header pipes changed several times, so there must be a difference (pipe diameter?).
I agree, Charlie.
At least the V65 needs to expel more air.
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Online pehayes

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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2024, 11:35:52 PM »
There is a not very active SmallBlock forum over on groups.io.  Search for this and note the punctuations:  Moto-Guzzi-SmallBlock@groups.io
Might ask there for some parts.
First thing is to determine what you have for an ignition trigger.  The /II version was not very easy to replace nor very reliable.  It looks to me like the disc dangling over the frame spine is the pickup/trigger plate for a Dyna-S which fits the /III motor.
There are a hundred unique tips for this particular bike:
lube the spark advancer annually
lube the front wheel speedo drive annually
remove, clean, lube bot the shift lever and brake lever pivots where they go through the frame
build a breather catch can system to collect valve cover mist and feed it back to the crank
build an inverted U breather tube for the transmission and the rear drive
rewire the starter relay circuit
that should keep you busy while you research the rest.

Patrick Hayes
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2024, 07:30:37 AM »
I went through a Monza with the latest transmission breather mod here:
https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=89034.0
Page 3 has the mod..
Chuck in (Elwood) Indiana/sometimes SoCal
 
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Offline guzzisteve

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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2024, 08:37:55 AM »
Boy, that stuff looks familiar. Did it come from Chad (Mayor of BBQ)? He is a chef over there in Ashville and has a V65 among other Guzzi's.
Just looked and I have a set of headpipes & crossover for V65 plus mufflers from V65C you can have, come get them. Some other smallblock stuff too. Can't remember everything. Not far away. NE of ATL 45mi. I used to work on a lot of smallblocks when they were new. Lot of Guzzi folks in your area.
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Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2024, 10:32:08 AM »
build an inverted U breather tube for the transmission and the rear drive

I've never found a different breather for the rear drive necessary, but definitely for the transmission. The rear drive does need the oiling mod and fracture prone locking plates removed.
Charlie

Offline dbarale

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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2024, 12:47:08 PM »
Boy, that stuff looks familiar. Did it come from Chad (Mayor of BBQ)? He is a chef over there in Ashville and has a V65 among other Guzzi's.
Just looked and I have a set of headpipes & crossover for V65 plus mufflers from V65C you can have, come get them. Some other smallblock stuff too. Can't remember everything. Not far away. NE of ATL 45mi. I used to work on a lot of smallblocks when they were new. Lot of Guzzi folks in your area.

I don’t really know who owned it in the past, it was last registered to someone named Robin from what I can tell.
I will gladly take you up on that exhaust, that was gonna be the big necessary expense to even figure out if the bike will run 

From what I can tell, I need shocks, exhaust, battery tray, rear fender and tailight, and the starter.

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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2024, 12:58:11 PM »
I don’t really know who owned it in the past, it was last registered to someone named Robin from what I can tell.
I will gladly take you up on that exhaust, that was gonna be the big necessary expense to even figure out if the bike will run 

From what I can tell, I need shocks, exhaust, battery tray, rear fender and tailight, and the starter.

I have a brown V50 III rear fender in my stash of parts, not sure what condition it's in, but will check and take some photos if you'd like. The V50 III and V65SP use a fiberglass rear fender with built in taillight mounting vs. metal fender and separate taillight on the V50 and V50 II.
Charlie

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2024, 01:58:20 PM »
I don’t really know who owned it in the past, it was last registered to someone named Robin from what I can tell.
I will gladly take you up on that exhaust, that was gonna be the big necessary expense to even figure out if the bike will run 

From what I can tell, I need shocks, exhaust, battery tray, rear fender and tailight, and the starter.
My last smallblock exhaust to get rid of, saves me from tossing it in dumpster. Dumped 2 Windjammers & windshield stuff last year. Thanks
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Online Moparnut72

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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #14 on: December 07, 2024, 08:09:20 AM »
I got rid of a boat load of old 50's Mercury outboard parts. I used to list some of this stuff on eBay for next to nothing for guys rebuilding or keeping old Mercs running. However shipping has gotten so high it is impractical to do this anymore. So a lot of parts get pitched instead of going to guys who could use them.
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Offline dbarale

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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #15 on: December 07, 2024, 04:37:14 PM »
Small update: it’s back on its wheels, -ish. I had to make a rear wheel axle from one off an XR500 (I think). The “shock” on there right now is 13”. I know factory is more like 12.5” but that seems low already…

I also stripped the wiring off the frame so I can work on it. It really, really needs it.








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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2024, 05:23:02 PM »
This might save you some aggravation on that wiring:

https://www.thisoldtractor.com/for_sale_wiring_harness.html

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Offline dbarale

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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #17 on: December 07, 2024, 08:20:21 PM »
This might save you some aggravation on that wiring:

https://www.thisoldtractor.com/for_sale_wiring_harness.html

-AJ

Thanks, I think I can salvage it, I actually enjoy doing electrical work on bikes.

Question for the collective, the bike was made 5/81, and it looks like it had point ignition. That would make it a III, correct?

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #18 on: December 07, 2024, 08:27:22 PM »
Thanks, I think I can salvage it, I actually enjoy doing electrical work on bikes.

Question for the collective, the bike was made 5/81, and it looks like it had point ignition. That would make it a III, correct?

Yes, V50 III.
Charlie

Offline paulbricey

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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2024, 04:09:10 AM »
If you are changing the wiring & you are 'wiring minded' I would suggest re-designing the OEM set up (I did this by cutting & changing existing Mk3 loom) to put in proper relay based switching & offloading the switchgear runaround ie new ignition circuit, new starter circuit, new headlamp circuits, new fusebox. At the same time this allows you to (if you want) bin the lego switchgear and fit some proper handlebar controls - they are amazingly cheap & I paid equivalent of 30 USD for both sides incl delivery from China. Needs some thinking to re-design & splice in but relatively easy....(M-unit is next level of cost/work...too much for me)

I put new relays up below the headstock (although on V65 Fl I put them on side of rear wheel plastic cubby-hole). I also fitted electronic ignition after struggling with points set up...& points are getting expensive !















Video here if it gives you any ideas...https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtciqvJAt-nzoxD6u8IWtHHF-8_1?e=ji59QP

« Last Edit: December 08, 2024, 04:19:49 AM by paulbricey »
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Offline dbarale

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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2024, 06:52:37 AM »
If you are changing the wiring & you are 'wiring minded' I would suggest re-designing the OEM set up (I did this by cutting & changing existing Mk3 loom) to put in proper relay based switching & offloading the switchgear runaround ie new ignition circuit, new starter circuit, new headlamp circuits, new fusebox. At the same time this allows you to (if you want) bin the lego switchgear and fit some proper handlebar controls - they are amazingly cheap & I paid equivalent of 30 USD for both sides incl delivery from China. Needs some thinking to re-design & splice in but relatively easy....(M-unit is next level of cost/work...too much for me)

I put new relays up below the headstock (although on V65 Fl I put them on side of rear wheel plastic cubby-hole). I also fitted electronic ignition after struggling with points set up...& points are getting expensive !















Video here if it gives you any ideas...https://1drv.ms/v/s!AtciqvJAt-nzoxD6u8IWtHHF-8_1?e=ji59QP

Yes, this bike already has a Dyna S ignition. I plan on using used Japanese switchgear and new relays.
By the way, is anyone still using the factory diode board (missing in this case)? Or does everyone swith to a modern rec/reg?

Online Antietam Classic Cycle

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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2024, 08:32:45 AM »
On my V50 III I stuck with the original parts - separate regulator and diode board, but did replace the regulator with a solid state adjustable unit. My new-to-me V65 has a Electrex RR45 regulator/rectifier already installed, so I'll run that.
Charlie

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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2024, 07:26:13 PM »
The factory diode board is very common - every airhead BMW from 1970 to 95 used the same charging system. I've rarely had any problems with the system since getting involved with BMWs in 1990. Back then, guys had problems with the rotors failing - but I'm pretty sure that was a lot due to hot rodding the bikes where sudden acceleration and deceleration inertia forces would play havoc with the windings.

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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2024, 09:02:59 AM »
The rotor in my very early R75/5 failed. The dealer told me that the factory started to epoxy the windings in later years to prevent the problem. There was a definite difference between the original and the replacement. Whether this helped or not I don't know but I had no further trouble with mine other than it needed new brushes at some point.
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Offline dbarale

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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2024, 03:42:34 PM »
The factory diode board is very common - every airhead BMW from 1970 to 95 used the same charging system. I've rarely had any problems with the system since getting involved with BMWs in 1990. Back then, guys had problems with the rotors failing - but I'm pretty sure that was a lot due to hot rodding the bikes where sudden acceleration and deceleration inertia forces would play havoc with the windings.


Interestingly I found a failed airhead diode board in my pile of parts today…

Anyway, thanks to GuzziSteve’s generosity I now have a complete, and quite nice, exhaust system. I can also confirm that this V65C fits my V50III perfectly. I wouldn’t know if there are any internal differences but I would think that it is unlikely.
It’s going to clean up nicely with a little steel wool and WD40.







Does anyone know the size of the front wheel spacers? I don’t have them and I could figure it out, but I’m lazy.

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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2024, 06:55:27 PM »
Here's the rear fender I mentioned. It's not fiberglass like I thought, but rather ABS(?) plastic. One crack where the signal mounts, otherwise in good condition. Pay shipping and it's yours.









Charlie

Offline guzzisteve

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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2024, 07:29:14 PM »
Thanks for coming down, hope you weren't late getting back. I'll keep my eye open for more stuff. Just glad someone can use it. Nice meeting you.
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Offline dbarale

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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2024, 07:33:20 PM »
Here's the rear fender I mentioned. It's not fiberglass like I thought, but rather ABS(?) plastic. One crack where the signal mounts, otherwise in good condition. Pay shipping and it's yours.











Thank you, I will send you a message with my address. I’m half tempted to put it back together with all mismatched plastics and tank.

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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2024, 07:43:24 PM »
Thank you, I will send you a message with my address. I’m half tempted to put it back together with all mismatched plastics and tank.






‘Snot a bad idea, in case you want to change some stuff. Then paint and finish at your leisure. They are fun bikes to ride!
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Offline dbarale

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Re: New guy with a V50 (kinda…)
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2024, 08:34:27 PM »
Since the bike will never be a showpiece, and the bodywork has issues, I was thinking about adding fork boots and painting it flat olive green to resemble the dutch V50 army bikes. What do you guys think?





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