Any Triumph T-120 riders among the Guzzisti?

[eljayski]

Merry Christmas to all!

In my earlier post (https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=122285.msg1893615#new) I waxed enthusiastic about the Triumph Speed 400. My sniffing around the Triumph corp. website brought my attention to the Bonnevilles . . . as a high school kid in the '60s, the Bonny 650 was revered.

The new ones are greatly evolved from the original 650s, of course, but the sublime good looks of the Bonnevilles are still a delight.

From looking at the specs, I surmise that the t100 is comparable to my V7 in terms of performance, but the t120 is a cut above.

Reasons to: looks like a magnificent and really fun bike! Reasons not to: chain drive instead of shaft; my V7 Special and Mandello leave no room in my garage (or my budget) for a third ride.

Do you own, or have you ridden, a t-120? If so, please share your take on the riding experience.

Many thanks, eljayski
 

[Moparnut72]

I had an Audace which got too much for me to ride mainly at walking speeds due to it's weight, rake, trail and long wheelbase. I traded it for a T120 mainly because MG didn't make anything that fit my needs. I thought I could live with the chain but I came to despise it, always cleaning and lubing it and hated the mess it made. People will say they don't need to lubed very often due to being sealed but what about roller sprocket contact. Anyway I bought it for mainly longer rides and touring. I changed the chain for a belt drive so that issue was taken care off, not cheap. On long rides I disliked the bike mainly for the engine. It was smooth for local rides on secondary roads. But it shuddered under load at low rpm. At higher rpm it got buzzy, so the more comfortable range was from 2,500 to 4,000. Whether this was just my bike or representative of the T120s in general but I wasn't enjoying it. It was about this time MG brought out the Mandello and when I saw the Navale I came happily back to MG. I also Have a V7lll so between it and the V100 the bases are covered for me. The T120 falls between these which is a narrow range I think. The exhaust sound on the T120 is the most pleasant of any motorcycle I have ever heard, I do miss that.
kk

[bronzestar1]

I used to have a 2018 Triumph Street Twin 900 before I got my latest Guzzis.  Had a bunch of mods done to it, including V&H slip-ons with a cat-delete and Booster Plug.  Only thing I didn't really like about the bike was the front brake, so I found a single 6-piston caliper to swap and that did the trick.  I think it revs faster and higher than my V7 Stone, and gets up to speed quicker.  It doesn't feel as heavy as my V7, and seems more nimble when it comes to handling.  Stock suspension was terrible, like most OEM suspensions, so that's a wash.  My daughter loved riding that bike around the neighborhood, to keep somewhat fresh on her recently acquired motorcycle endorsement.  Not a fan of the chain drive, much prefer the lower maintenance of shaft drive.  Not sure how that compares to a T120, but the Street Twin 900 was a good bike. 

[DoubleGuzzi]

I used to have a 2018 Triumph Street Twin 900 ..

Similarities to my one is interesting, particularly the front brake. Equally interesting is that I find my Breva is more nimble, quicker to higher speed (plus overall quicker) and lighter to manhandle.

[geoff in almonte]

I have a 2020 Bonneville T120 Diamond, bought new.
From the dealer the bike was equipped with a small GIVI windscreen, an OEM grabrail/rack and a set of V&H peashooters (DB killers installed).

The DB killlers were removed at the bike's first service.  The exhaust sound is full and mellow without being LOUD.

The OEM Pirellis are junk and were scrapped almost immediately- replaced with Avon Spirits - a major improvement.
The OEM suspension was waaaay too soft and was replaced with Ohlins front and rear - a dramatic improvement to the handling.

Other options followed - Corbin, Triumph branded leather saddlebags/pannier rails.

From a maintenance perspective the bike has performed flawlessly, requiring only regular, scheduled servicing. 
Next spring it will need to have the valves checked/adjusted (60,000 KM).  Currently there is 53,000km on the odometer.

IMHO the bike is geared way too tall, so this past spring when I replaced the chain I bumped the rear sprocket up two teeth.
Another major improvement AND I got to use 5th gear.  Sixth gear prolly still has the burrs on it.

Chain maintenance, for me, is a non issue.  It takes two minutes to oil it (every 500km) and ten minutes to adjust it (as required).
I wash my bike often so oil spray on the rim is another non issue.  It's kind of a zen thing, keeping the bike shiny.
Taking regular care of the chain takes less time than it does to 'Lube the splines' on any of the Guzzis I have owned.

Fit and finish are excellent - the Pearl White on the Diamond model is dazzling in the sunshine!
The bike is light (450lbs) and easy to shift around in the garage.  Much easier than my '08 CalVin.
It tours well - carries me & my gear effortlessly.  Gas mileage averages around 20km per litre.
Power is good (80rwhp) - it could use another 15-20 hp.
Brakes are adequate - there is room for improvement.
Handling, with the Avons and Ohlins, is excellent - the Bonnie ain't no Gixxer or R1 but it can hold it's own.  The bike handles better than I can push it.
I live near the Lanark Highlands in Eastern Ontario - there are 100's of km of bendy secondary roads to explore.  Just ask NICK949.
City riding, with the larger rear sprocket, is OK.  I don't spend much time in the city so my opinions may not count on this.

I will say that I like this bike a lot.  It's prolly the best 'all rounder' that I have owned in 55 years of riding.

Hope this helps.

Cheers!

G

[bigbikerrick]

Great review, Geoff. Makes me want to go out and buy a Triumph!   
Rick

[DoubleGuzzi]

I became a Triumph convert when buying an ex-demo 900 Trident (which I loved, though was too tall). My next bike was an ex-demo 995i Sprint ST which I kept for over 20 years. So I like the reborn Triumphs then. 
Bike weight is relative to what you're used to and/or current health is capable of. I sat on the T120 and was sorely tempted but anything over 200Kg is a heavyweight and a hindrance wheeling it in/out a garage with even a slight slope/threshold step/rough ground entrance.
Doesn't detract from what are lovely machines but doesn't suit all. It still amazes me the amount of older, particularly 'murican, riders that ride Harley behemoths!
I went for the Street 900 primarily as it is the lightest (prior to the release of the 400) of the 'classic' Triumph range - no other reason, over the other models. Unfortunately, it's a pre-2019 lower powered version but it was the deal and availability at the time.
I'm in no rush to sell (and lose a few grand), having made so many changes to suit myself but the 'wee' Breva has spoiled me and I can't help hankering after a V7 Carbon. No, I don't have a bottomless pit of funds nor a garage bigger than my small house, which appears to be the case for many on here.
In short (pun intended), if I was younger & fitter, I'd had bought a T120 

[kidsmoke]

I've ridden both the T100 and T120 for 100+ mile rides, but I own neither. So my opinion is anecdotal and biased.

I will say this though, the consensus in my riding crew which includes all the bikes in question,would rank their performance thusly:

1) T-120
2) V7-850
3) V7III
4) T-100

My friends with T-100's all avoid significant slab travel, stating the bikes just not tuned for it. The owners I know of the other 3 would never suggest such a thing. I've got a pal who owns many bikes, various Guzzi's among them, as well as several Triumphs, and his T-120 is his jack of all trades go to. Trying to get him to log on here and sound off for you.

[Craig Jones]

I have a 2020 T120.  I agree with the previous comments that the T100 is comparable to a current V7.  The T120 is a step up in power, braking, and features.  I have made very few modifications to mine -- I think it is great out of the box.  I get it serviced at the local dealer once a year and never worry about it any other time.  The exhaust sounds great, the bars and grips are nice a beefy, the brakes (dual front discs) are more than adequate in my mind, the look is classic, the fit and finish is first rate, it has a fuel guage, gear indicator, and ride modes, and the factory cruise control and heated grips work great.  It is a standard so I don't think of it as a long distance tourer.  For local events like vintage bike nights and pub nights and day rides in the countryside it is perfect.  There is a very active local Triumph club which is a huge plus.

[ff73148]

I've owned two T100's and one of the first T120 shipped to the USA. Suspension on both of these models is basic. I had Ohlins on my T100. The T120 is a powerful engine that was too torquey for me. Chain maintenance was never an issue for me. There is an enormous amount of aftermarket accessories for both models. I don't consider either one of these models a good touring bike. If you buy a T120 you will probably want to change the seat. Buy a Burton seat.
 

[inditx]

Hey Frank,

I see you own an R12 BMW
Is the T120 “torquier" than your Beemer?
inditx

[kidsmoke]

I have a 2020 T120.  I agree with the previous comments that the T100 is comparable to a current V7.  The T120 is a step up in power, braking, and features.  I have made very few modifications to mine -- I think it is great out of the box.  I get it serviced at the local dealer once a year and never worry about it any other time.  The exhaust sounds great, the bars and grips are nice a beefy, the brakes (dual front discs) are more than adequate in my mind, the look is classic, the fit and finish is first rate, it has a fuel guage, gear indicator, and ride modes, and the factory cruise control and heated grips work great.  It is a standard so I don't think of it as a long distance tourer.  For local events like vintage bike nights and pub nights and day rides in the countryside it is perfect.  There is a very active local Triumph club which is a huge plus.

thanks for chiming in CJ!

[Moparnut72]

I've owned two T100's and one of the first T120 shipped to the USA. Suspension on both of these models is basic. I had Ohlins on my T100. The T120 is a powerful engine that was too torquey for me. Chain maintenance was never an issue for me. There is an enormous amount of aftermarket accessories for both models. I don't consider either one of these models a good touring bike. If you buy a T120 you will probably want to change the seat. Buy a Burton seat.

The factory comfort seat is quite good also. I put one on mine, helped a lot with hours on the bike. But the bike is not a good long distance tourer. Fantastic local rides bike though.
kk

[eljayski]

Thanks, everyone, for your input!

I've got the chance to test ride a 2023 t120 at my local dealer, 2025 miles.

Very tempted but it's a can of worms--I can't buy it and I don't want the dealer hounding me about making the purchase.

To suit me, the bike would need sidebags and a windshield--extra $--and a couple of cautions in this thread about it not being a good tourer speak to me. The Mandello will serve me for long rides and the V7 is such a hoot for short hops around town.

Nevertheless, I'll probably cave and take a ride. Will report back! eljayski

[eljayski]

Update: went to the dealer and, behold, the used 2023 was already sold.

The sales fellow put me on a new T120 which I rode for 5 or 6 miles at temp about 46 degrees.

Very nice riding experience; engine very smooth (more so than V7) and confidence-inspiring handling. Liked the precise shifting.

LCDs within the dials not easy to read.

Scratched the itch without drama. The end.

[Tkelly]

I was surprised to see so many Triumps in Italy.They were everywhere and Guzzis were about as rare  as they are here.Probably more dealers and cheaper than Guzzis,Icant imagine any other explanation.

[ff73148]

Hey Frank,

I see you own an R12 BMW
Is the T120 “torquier" than your Beemer?
inditx

No. The R12 engine is tuned better. Plus I fell the brakes are better.

[Moparnut72]

I felt that the brakes on my T120 were lacking. Even with twin discs up front pretty much on par with my V7. My V100 is a whole 'nother story.
kk

[jackthebiker]

I have a 2020 T120 Diamond Edition and a 2022 Guzzi V7 850 Special. I would pick the T120 over the Guzzi, but it costs a lot more.

[adventurelounger]

Bikewise, I’m a dual citizen of Italy and the UK. I have a V7II Stornello and a Triumph T120 (and a V85 Guardia…but that’s another kind of bike and story). I love them both/all in equal measure.

Specific to the Triumph: mine is a 2022 Gold Line. It’s as pretty as a bike gets. British Racing Green/Metallic Grey with hand-painted gold pinstripes. Delicious.



The bike oozes quality and refinement. Engine is a beautiful, silky, purring and burbling 1200 cc parallel twin, which is delightful for in-town riding, and more than ample for road-tripping on the interstate. Great classic analog instrumentation with some basic digital info. Bike has been totally trouble free, although I did just get a recall notice for something minor on it—will address in the spring.

It’s not a totally dissimilar riding experience to my V7II Stornello.



Both are classic, bench seat, upright-riding, controls-beneath-you bikes. Both have ABS. My Guzzi (a 2016) is a little more raw feeling (air-cooled vs water cooled), and obviously has a considerably smaller engine (750 cc vs 1200). FWIW I also had a T100 for a year or two, but traded it in for the T120 because it only had 5 gears, and the [edit] 900 cc engine felt a little anemic on the highway. The T120 is better in every way that matters.

Both the Guzzi and the Triumph are beautiful, characterful European classic bikes (although the Triumph is manufactured in Thailand—I know, I know). Both my Guzzis and Triumphs have been well-assembled, well-designed modern bikes, with very little in the way of compromise or mechanical issues. The differences are largely aesthetic and “psychographic” — are you drawn to the 100+ year history of a small-town iconic Italian bike brand, or to the British heritage/classic vibe and the constant refinement Triumph has put into their lovely Bonneville machines and variants? Drivewise, I personally prefer a driveshaft over a chain. But I keep my bikes clean, and cleaning/oiling the chain on the Triumph is low-effort and undramatic.

Of course, there are some meaningful metrics differences between the current V7 850s and the T100s (the closest comparable models) in terms of things like HP. The T120 creates much greater separation from any currently available Guzzi with its 1200 cc motor. Closest you can get to that is a V100 Mandello, I suppose, but that’s a very different kind of bike. I’d love Guzzi to put that 1,000 cc motor in a V7-style modern-retro classic bike…then you’d have apples to apples.

But I personally like a little crumpets with jam and tea here 🇬🇧 ...and a little biscotti and espresso there 🇮🇹. One rider’s opinion!

(Addendum: why, then, the V85 Guardia in the stable? I’ve always had an adventure bike for long road trips and occasional fire-road explorations. I had a Super Tenere for ten years and adored it, but after a decade was jonesing for something new and a bit less…imposing (it’s a huge bike, and I’m 6’1). The V85 intrigued me, and after a test ride and a great deal on a leftover 2022, I took the plunge. For distance, comfort, and carrying capacity, it is superior to any kind of modern classic, the T120 and V7 included. Did a 1000 mile trip this summer over a long weekend, and never felt a twinge of discomfort or a desire to get out of the saddle. Same can’t be said for the Bonnie or the V7—limited comfort range on both.)

[kidsmoke]

. FWIW I also had a T100 for a year or two, but traded it in for the T120 because it only had 5 gears, and the 1000 cc engine felt a little anemic on the highway. The T120 is better in every way that matters.

Worth mentioning the T100 has had three motors over the years and none of them1000cc. Either 790, 865, or 900 depending on the year.

The Guardia is simply stunning.

[blu guzz]

lounger:  What a great overview of the 3 bikes.  You went right to the essence of each machine. 
I think you may have actually managed not to step on any toes, well done.

[DoubleGuzzi]

Worth mentioning the T100 has had three motors over the years and none of them1000cc. Either 790, 865, or 900 depending on the year.

The 100 is a reference to the original which was guaranteed to top 100mph (unlike my Street Twin), rather than engine capacity.

The Goldline T120 is top of the range, in my mind: reminds me of the hand-painted pinstripes on my past black/red 900 Trident. 
Now, we just need a modern day version of a 1970s MG V1000S/V750S (with a higher bar option for us who can't cope).

[Moparnut72]

I have a Mandello but I would have liked to have had the motor in a more traditional type of bike. It would be too much in a V7 size frame though but something more like a T120 would be ideal.
kk

[twowheeladdict]

I test rode all the classics before they went liquid cooled.  Back then the Scrambler was the only bike with the 270 crank.  Now they all have the 270 crank. 

I really like the the Scrambler XE in every way except practicality and price.  What a great ride it is though with the amazing suspension it comes with.

[kidsmoke]

I test rode all the classics before they went liquid cooled.  Back then the Scrambler was the only bike with the 270 crank.  Now they all have the 270 crank. 

I really like the the Scrambler XE in every way except practicality and price.  What a great ride it is though with the amazing suspension it comes with.

With you on the appreciation of the XE. I’m in the local Triumph dealer regularly. That’s the bike I ponder, and subsequently rack up the google/youtube time on. If I were to buy a Triumph, no question, that’s the bike.

[twowheeladdict]

With you on the appreciation of the XE. I’m in the local Triumph dealer regularly. That’s the bike I ponder, and subsequently rack up the google/youtube time on. If I were to buy a Triumph, no question, that’s the bike.

Too bad they discontinued it.  A dealer near me has a "new" chrome edition one with 1600 miles on it for a shade under $12k.  Tempted but have nothing I care to part with at the moment. 

[eljayski]

the plot thickens . . . thinking of trading the V7 for a new 2023 meriden blue Bonny

there seem to be several available . . .

https://motohunt.com/motorcycles-for-sale/2023-Triumph-Bonneville-T120-Chrome-Edition

this means learning to live with chain-drive but I'm tempted . . .

[jackthebiker]

the plot thickens . . . thinking of trading the V7 for a new 2023 meriden blue Bonny

there seem to be several available . . .

https://motohunt.com/motorcycles-for-sale/2023-Triumph-Bonneville-T120-Chrome-Edition

this means learning to live with chain-drive but I'm tempted . . .

Yes, most dealers are sold out of 2024 and 2023 T120s, except that color, it wasn't very popular. But I checked one out and I liked it.

[twowheeladdict]

the plot thickens . . . thinking of trading the V7 for a new 2023 meriden blue Bonny

there seem to be several available . . .

https://motohunt.com/motorcycles-for-sale/2023-Triumph-Bonneville-T120-Chrome-Edition

this means learning to live with chain-drive but I'm tempted . . .

And liquid cooling maintenance.  Add in the cost of a center stand because it makes chain maintenance easier.