V7 III Carbon Questions, Mods & Musings

[DoubleGuzzi]

Looking for some advice and relevant details on ownership.

Having had my wee Breva rekindle my interest in Guzzis and just sold my Street Twin, I'm keenly eyeing a few Carbons for sale at prices that I can just about stretch to. They vary in exact model year, 2018/19 and the highest mileage is a paltry 16,000 miles approx.

Can I pick your combined brains/experiences? What are the pitfalls of ownership and what should I be aware of upfront?
I'm not concerned about it being only 744cc compared to later V"7"s, in that a primary consideration is vehicle weight.

I honestly could do without the matte paint finish and prefer glossy. What do you guys use to clean and protect the finish, without it turning to a shiny satin look?
In a similar vein, what about care for the exhaust pipes and silencers (mufflers)? On black finish Triumph pipes, I've used factory recommended Motorex Protect & Shine but that was for black chrome. A couple of photos that I've seen of Carbons show signs of the pipes being polished to some degree.
How does one go about touching up inevitable paint chips?

Did some bikes come from the factory with red wheel rim trim, or has it just been a particular addition on one of the bikes that I spotted?

Engine-wise, are there any significant/worthwhile changes compared to the 2008 744cc Breva? Bigger clutch with lighter action, for example? Ever so slightly more powerful and barely noticeable?

What's the consensus on the best tyres to use? (Controversial/personal, I know)

[I'm also considering the Shine version, kinda circumventing the black finish queries, at the expense of being blinded/dazzled.]

Thanks for any insights.
 

[Kev m]

Mechanically all V7III variants are essentially the same though details vary in the form of fender, instrument, and wheel configurations.

But they are all ABS/TC equipped hemi head 6-spd smallblocks. They make decent power, a bit of punch over the heron head models, yet very efficient (low to mid 50's mpg range despite more power).

There's a little more weight than the earlier models but I don't really notice it.

We've had ours since new but only a gentle 8k miles or so. I guess that's pampered with that I've not needed to touch up anything. I clean the bodywork with Plexus or Pledge. I tend to use the Plexus on the tank to maintain the matte finish, though I would use the Pledge too and not worry if it got a little shiny.

The cast wheels are the same as all the other cast wheels since the intro of the 1tb Stone up until the 850 models. Any red trim was added by an owner.

The motor is noticeably more powerful than any of the Heron Head models but that probably isn't much in the big picture of things. I do think it is more highway capable than my MkI Stone.

I also think the suspension is a hair better out of the box than earlier models but still relatively poverty pack.

I'm quite happy with both my MkI and MkIII though I'm really considering a Mk whatever the F the new ones are gonna be.

But I'm still keeping these two.

[DoubleGuzzi]

There's a little more weight than the earlier models but I don't really notice it.

Thanks: I was hoping that you'd chime in. 
Have you got any definitive figure for this, as in my poking around, I get varying weights?
I usually go on dry weight for comparisons: 189kg is exactly my expectation - not light but just bearable.

Dry Weight (lbs/kg)
417 / 189
Wet Weight (lbs/kg)
461 / 209

Seems like the carbon fibre goodness (I have a fetish for it) is of little/zero consequence.

Mid 50(UK) mpg is what I'm seeing from most sources - seems about the same as the Breva and a big drop from the Street Twin.  One might have thought the 6-speed box and changed cylinder heads would make improvements to fuel consumption. If 'muricans had to wear the same costs as Brits do for go-go juice, you'd cry too.

(Pledge is a household furniture polish in the UK and I'm still Googling Plexus ;) )

[Kev m]

Those weight figures sound about right. It's a guess as the OEM specs are a little suspect being the exact same as other variants.

I actually do think the carbon fiber bits look good even if overall they have little impact vs plastic or aluminum on other models with regards to actual weight.

But honestly at the end of the day I don't feel any big differences between our three bikes and the lightest is 400# wet and the MkIII heaviest is probably only around 460# wet.

My MkI heron head only gets 40-45 mpg (US) so the MkIII hemi getting 50-55 mpg (US) feels like a jump to me.

I can get more if I'm really conservative.

Jenn can do better but she's half my size and manages nearly 60 mpg on her Duc so there's that.



Yes on Pledge that's the same stuff I'm talking about.

Plexus is an overpriced plastic cleaner/polish but I really like it and use it on our helmets and windscreens.

https://www.plexusplasticcleaner.com/about.html

[DoubleGuzzi]

Back in the '70s, we all used Pledge on our visors but not used that in many moons! I very occasionally use Hard Shell Turtle Wax as an external protecting skin (helmet shell & visor) - demister spray on the inside, to augment the near ineffective dual layer visor. A few minutes light soak with a damp kitchen towel, to remove bugs etc.
Reading about the Plexus Plastic Cleaner, it seems to include ingredients to shine. The previously mentioned Motorex isn't too dissimilar. Even products such as Armour All (however it's spelled) have a tendency to shine dull surfaces.  Hmm, think I need a rain-check for this one, perhaps literally.
 

P.S. Another ~10mpg is always welcome. 
P.P.S. I've been spoiled by the (lack of) weight of my previous Winter bike: Duc M600

[egschade]

I just picked up a Carbon Dark and as Kev says, it's a vanilla V7 III underneath with all the good and bad that comes with that model. The suspension is adequate at best so many will upgrade both ends. I replaced the OEM shocks with adjustable Hagons and put spacers w/ lighter oil in the forks. May spend the $$ for cartridge emulators in the future. The other thing to watch/maintain is the rear drive mushroom vent as they can get stuck closed and when that happens, oil will blow past the seals when things get hot. A small fly screen is nice to reduce wind blast a bit and protect the speedo.

Matching tires are a little hard to find. I like the softness of radial tires and think the OEM Pirelli bias tires are a bit skiddish. Went with a set of Bridgestone A41s. Lastly, I like the TCS at the lowest settings as it can be quite intrusive otherwise.

[kingoffleece]

Not that you asked, but if I was going to the effort to remove the forks and do some work I'd put a set of Gold Valves in while it was opened up.
They work great on the V7, are not expensive, and if you source them from Hamlin, who's done at least 100 of them, you'll get it right the first time.
It's really not $$ and the improvement is way more than the price tag.

[DoubleGuzzi]

I just picked up a Carbon Dark ..

Looks like the pipes have maintained their flat black look - the plush surroundings make it difficult to tell on the 'mattness' of the tank. ;-)
Is it the damping that's the issue as, I'd be tempted to transplant the red springs onto the replacement shocks, if possible.

Making me wonder whether I should really pickup a cheap(er) V7III and source the carbon goodies, as/when they appear on the used market. Just a thought.

[Kev m]

Looks like the pipes have maintained their flat black look - the plush surroundings make it difficult to tell on the 'mattness' of the tank. ;-)
Is it the damping that's the issue as, I'd be tempted to transplant the red springs onto the replacement shocks, if possible.

Making me wonder whether I should really pickup a cheap(er) V7III and source the carbon goodies, as/when they appear on the used market. Just a thought.

I dunno. But if you really dig the look of the carbon there's a lot that goes into it from the four carbon fiber body parts to the red valve covers and calipers, to even the color of the tank badges and stripe.

You could spend quite a bit chasing that.

Ironically I didn't realize until after Jenn had picked it out that it was one of the few models to essentially have all one color/matching bodywork since so many of the smallblocks come with only the front fender matching the tank. I'm hindsight I really hate that visually and sorta lucked into two smallblocks with matching fenders.

[DoubleGuzzi]

Sorry fellas (particularly Kev M): I rejected a higher mileage, cheaper, fiery red head for a very shiny one.
What gets me is how cheap they are Stateside, compared to UK. Still, I felt it was a reasonable deal for something with only a 500 unit production run and only one of 20 in the UK.
Took the opportunity to grab a centre stand (previously on a V7 Special - hope it fits!) and some used Hagon Nitro shocks (no need to try switching out to the red springs). The 'joys' of feeBay. 

Let's hope that I enjoy my new purchase, as and when it arrives - a couple of weeks of wondering.
 

Will the wee Breva remain in the stable for Winter duties? Time will tell.

[DoubleGuzzi]

(Blog) update..

The Shiny Carbon arrived in the small hours (great courier!) and I took it out for a sneaky 5 mile test ride this afternoon. Brrr @3.5degC.
First impressions:
Wow that non-Heron head sure makes the top end more chunky than the Breva - looks like a bigger capacity motor.
The shine actually looks better in the flesh than in pics, to my eyes (typical of Guzzis, IME).

The bike has a fresh MOT (roadworthy certificate) but boy, are the brakes poor! The front reminds me of the standard crappy setup on my ex-'18 Street Twin i.e. lack of both feel and power. The back is wooden, devoid of sensitivity and near ineffectual. For Brembos, there's something not right and I've queried the stealer dealer on whether new pads have been installed. Either way, I'll remove the pads to see what's going on - I can sense a set of GG organics pads will be on the shopping list. The existing (likely HH-rated) pads may just be heavily glazed but I prefer pads to wear out quicker than discs.;)
As promised, a new (JMT) battery had been fitted, though I may eventually substitute it for a LiFePo4, if a good deal comes my way. I couldn't persuade the dealer to install a lithium instead of the AGM; maybe it was due to already getting him to knock £225 off the bike's listed price. 

The back tyre has seen better days, in having age related cracks running around a lot of the sidewalls close to the rim. I've seen worse but really it should have been flagged as an advisory during the MOT process. Far too early to tell but initial impressions are that the front end handling is similar to when I had Pirellis on the Breva. Very slight slow speed tuck-in. A pair of Mitas may be on the cards, depending on their performance on the Breva.

It'll be interesting to see if I can adjust to the ergonomics; the footpegs are positioned exactly were I want to put my legs when I come to a stop. The pegs are wider apart and further forward than what I've been used to for decades. The only other bike to have been like this was strangely my wife's ex-F650GS. I've already begun to research rearsets! (Too expensive.) It'll be a bit like switching between auto and manual gearbox cars, I reckon: fight muscle memory.

Well laid plans.. The (used V7 Stone) Hagon Nitros are 290mm eyelet spacing so therefore too long for the V7III (Why though? Arrgh!). They may find a home on the Breva, as they're in better condition than the current dual spring Hagons. Ideally, I'd drop to slightly shorter than standard shocks, for a lower seat height - I'll be dropping the forks 10mm to begin with, anyway.
 
A (black) used and a bit chipped Givi rack arrived today, which should be fine for the occasional/possible long weekends away. The extended side arms on this rack may give enough support for a 30 year old pair of throw-over Cordura saddlebags. If not, I have a pair of generic shock-attached supports kicking about the garage.

I'll play around with a couple of fly screens that I have, though I may end up purchasing a cheap Chinese clear one, from that fella Ali. Time will tell.

Before I get too deeply involved, I'm gonna attempt to put on the main/centre stand. Thanks to a couple of posts/threads here, it doesn't look too bad to do, as long as it fits. ;) It'll let me position the bike at the back of the garage better, for the next couple of months, until weather/salty roads improve.

 

[Vagrant]

EBC HH front and rear make it stop. Wear isn't a factor. Drop the forks15MM. Bridgestone A41 for the rear and the same or a T32 for front.

[DoubleGuzzi]

EBC HH front and rear make it stop.

I'm looking at EBC organic GG, as I prefer the initial feel from organic pads. Being softer, they wear the discs out less plus heat up quicker, for general road use. Yes, they do fade under hard use but I don't do track days and my days of crazy fast +60 miles group rideouts are past.
Availability and cost are factors in my tyre choices. I previously enjoyed dual compound Bridgestones when touring, as well as scratching: always went for the BT range though on Zephyr 1100, '98 900 Trident and 955 Sprint ST.

Visually, those A41s look more suitable for the Rough and at ~£260(GBP) a pair kinda steep for my wallet! My budget go to tyres used to be Continental but even the ContiGo are over £200 a pair.

[egschade]

Pretty much finished updating my Carbon. A41s front and rear. Dart Marlin fly screen. Cylinder guards. Racetech springs in front and 10mm longer Hagon adjustable shocks in back.

[DoubleGuzzi]

Those A41s actually look OK fitted. 
Crash bars are the same shape as I fitted to the Breva. I'm considering the ones that sit under the cylinder heads instead, though nearly twice the price for aesthetics. Would the underside head ones offer much resistance in a tip-over? Likely I'll stick with the cheaper option.
You went with longer shocks, I need shorter if anything - to bring it closer to the confidence inspiring Street Twin seat height.

[egschade]

Those A41s actually look OK fitted. 
Crash bars are the same shape as I fitted to the Breva. I'm considering the ones that sit under the cylinder heads instead, though nearly twice the price for aesthetics. Would the underside head ones offer much resistance in a tip-over? Likely I'll stick with the cheaper option.
You went with longer shocks, I need shorter if anything - to bring it closer to the confidence inspiring Street Twin seat height.

Not sure what what you mean by "under the cylinder heads" as the ones I installed are the smallest made for the V7 so far as I know. Anything lower still or less obtrusive may not offer much, if any, protection to the cylinders. As for shocks, I can still flat foot the bike with my 29" (74cm) inseam. If you do go with something shorter than stock then be sure to lower the fork tubes in the clamps a corresponding amount. The stock suspension is probably sprung for a 160 lb (72kg) rider so I had to go with almost 50% stiffer springs for my weight and luggage needs.

[DoubleGuzzi]

The AX41S that I came across in the UK, have a completely different pattern, which confused me a little. 




I'm a 28/29" inseam circa 75Kg net weight and not flat-footed on the bike: shock preload set near softest. Of course, regarding the fork drop.
 

[egschade]

Interesting. Haven't seen that style engine guard before. As for the tires, mine are A41 while the ones you show are AT41 (at least in the US).

[DoubleGuzzi]

Interesting. Haven't seen that style engine guard before.

Shows them on the 850 - I assume (perhaps wrongly) that they'd fit on the V7III.

[DoubleGuzzi]

I'm looking to fit a carbon fibre Fender Extender - does anyone know if this might fit? From the seller's description:

Fits
V7 Café (2008-2016), V7 Classic (2008-2013), V7 Special (2008-2016), V7 Stone (2013-2014).
V7 II Special (2008-2016), V7 II Stone 2008-2016) and V7 III Special (2016 onwards).

It will NOT fit the following
V7 Clubman racer, V7 Stone 850, V7 Stone Centenario 850, V7 Special 850, V7 II Clubman Racer, V7 III Stone, V7 III Anniversario

[Vagrant]

Shows them on the 850 - I assume (perhaps wrongly) that they'd fit on the V7III.

Odds are that is a bad assumption!
As to the A41 it is a 90/10, the pic you show is the off road one. Not what you want.

[DoubleGuzzi]

And so it begins.. taken in fading light, so crappy quality:


That screen is a cheapy (~£5) from Ali and I had it on the Breva just to try it out - I'm about to put the early Breva standard one back on it, as it's better for Winter use anyway. At the same time, I dropped the forks 13mm - didn't wanna go too far without preload slugs etc. Additionally, I've raised the headlight to just a few mm below the bottom of the speedo housing.

Speaking of bad assumptions..
The V7 Special centre stand will need a different stop bracket fabricated, if/when I manage to remove that long cross member Allen bolt. I've ordered up some new 1/2" hex bits, to see if I get a better fit onto the bolt.

[Kev m]

Interesting on the brakes. I wonder what is different from mine (or if it's just me, but I don't think so -  the brakes on my V7s have both been fine for single disc setups, certainly more powerful than some other bikes that have been in the fleet around the same time and no worse than any other single discs I've had).

Shows them on the 850 - I assume (perhaps wrongly) that they'd fit on the V7III.

That might be a bad assumption.

I am starting to think that I can't/shouldn't have THREE smallblocks which means I might have to get rid of one if I get a V7 Sport.

So that got me looking into whether or not I could scavenge some of the accessories from the Carbon Dark to use on a new one.

For comparison I looked up things like my frame sliders and the C-bow racks - and BOTH had different part numbers for the V7III vs. the V7IV (850s). So although I'm not a 100% certain, it does seem likely that there are changes/difference that make some accessories non-compatible. Hell, the first thing people here did was say that the seats for the I-III wouldn't fit the IV and vice-versa.

I'm looking to fit a carbon fibre Fender Extender - does anyone know if this might fit? From the seller's description:

Quote
Fits
V7 Café (2008-2016), V7 Classic (2008-2013), V7 Special (2008-2016), V7 Stone (2013-2014).
V7 II Special (2008-2016), V7 II Stone 2008-2016) and V7 III Special (2016 onwards).

It will NOT fit the following
V7 Clubman racer, V7 Stone 850, V7 Stone Centenario 850, V7 Special 850, V7 II Clubman Racer, V7 III Stone, V7 III Anniversario

That's a WEIRD list and I'm somewhat skeptical that it is correct because of questionable model years. Like the Cafe Classic was one year not 08-16. And the V7C ended in 2012, and 08-16 would mean 2TB bikes, MKI and MKII bikes. Etc etc etc.

Now the REAL thing to look for is the fact that the V7III models came with TWO DIFFERENT REAR FENDER SETUPS depending on the model.

Models like the Stone and Special came with full rear fenders like the earlier MKI and MKII (and V7C run). This uses a hidden fender support and mounts to the chassis one way and the tail light/license plate assembly attaches to it.

Models like the Carbon Shine and Carbon Dark use an abbreviated rear fender and a separate sub-frame that supports the tail light/license plate assembly. This makes the fender size/shape different. Meaning something that attaches to the fuller fender might not mount the same way. Also the sub-frame and how it mounts changes things back there as well.

Speaking of bad assumptions..
The V7 Special centre stand will need a different stop bracket fabricated, if/when I manage to remove that long cross member Allen bolt. I've ordered up some new 1/2" hex bits, to see if I get a better fit onto the bolt.

IF memory serves you need to loosen some other things to get the frame cross member out. Maybe it was the peg/control mounts or something like that. Let me know if you are still having problems and I'll go poke around the Carbon and try to stir my memory.

[Moparnut72]

Interesting on the brakes. I wonder what is different from mine (or if it's just me, but I don't think so -  the brakes on my V7s have both been fine for single disc setups, certainly more powerful than some other bikes that have been in the fleet around the same time and no worse than any other single discs I've had).

The brakes on my V7lll are quite good. When I bought my Bonneville the brakes on it were less effective than the V7 After wore in they were about equal even though the Bonneville had twin discs. My Audace had excellent brakes. The brakes on my Mandello are superb.
kk

[DoubleGuzzi]

Yeah, I'm not off to a great start, with regards to compatibility.
Seller description:

Moto guzzi v7 850 givi luggage rack off 2018 bike

Given the supposed year, I was expecting the rack to be not from a 850. Drat! The rear mounting point seems to be in a different location and wider apart. I guess it was from a later 850. 

Re: fender extender.
I should've been clearer, as the term is used exclusively AFAIK (due to rhyming I guess), to describe a front mudguard extension, in the UK.

Brakes.
Through a DIY-made aluminium alloy bracket (I'll decline to spell it improperly  ), I retrofitted the later 4-pot Brembo setup to my Street Twin. The original twin-pot Nissan was dire to say the least! They (Brembo) were actually a little too powerful and able to totally get the front end "in a twist", if used fiercely.
Yesterday, I braved the cold (for me) and inspected the brakes. They had been cleaned, to a large degree, by the dealer service, as promised. Being a fully-floating disc and 4-pot Brembo, I thought to myself, "Aye, something not right here". I've scrubbed the front and back pad faces with a relatively soft copper brush, followed up with Wurth brake cleaner on both pads and discs. The pads are Brembo front (suffixed part # FF?) and MG marked rear - I hope to grab a 10% discount on a full set of EBC organic GG-rated, tomorrow. I'll keep the originals as spare.
As with the Breva, I'll likely try bleeding the rear with the caliper sitting on top of the disc, to raise it above the master cylinder. The front will get the brake lever tied back to the bar overnight treatment.
I won't know the outcome until it goes back on the road, likely in April.
[I do hope the floating disc ain't gonna cause MOT issues, like the rattly ones on a Laverda 750S Formula!]

 

 

[Kev m]

Duh, I should have picked that up on the fender extenda. Well you got a shot there.

Ironically maybe the problem with the rack is what I described, the fender sub-frame differences. I mean 2018 should all be V7III (unless it's from a V9).

[egschade]

Could just be a typo and the seller meant to post 2018 750. Contact the seller before buying to clarify.

Just ordered "Best Brembo" pads for my Carbon Dark from MG Cycle https://www.mgcycle.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=110_122&products_id=5209. Rears are in stock but these fronts are pending.

[DoubleGuzzi]

Grabbed the 10% discount on "EBC Motorcycle Brake Pads DMX" to get £31.43 for both front & rear. No opinionated "Best" marketing in sight. 

[egschade]

I find the stock seat rather harsh and uncomfortable after 20 minutes given my bony butt. Depending on your own personal level of, um, cushioning, you may want to get a seat pad. What I did was to buy another V7 seat and refit it with better foam for longer rides. This Milano saddle has an extra inch of high density memory foam on the front half (came from an office chair cushion I bought on Amazon for $15).

[DoubleGuzzi]

^ I have same issue: bony butt syndrome! Typically, 100 miles and my bones don't recover. Been down many roads (bad pun) with a Corbin (Sprint ST) for longer tours and I custom made two seats for the Bonnie, with gel inserts. I also have the problem of not thickening the saddle/raising the seat height.

That's a rather nice looking seat cover that you have and would suit my Shine well. I'm pondering a used seat (on a watch list) at a sensible price, with a thought to carving up the foam etc. I need to consider the patterns on them, should I decide to lower them an inch, for example.