Aero engine

[Chuck in Indiana]

I'm starting a major service of the AeroLario today, and thought, "I'll bet many here have never seen one of these.." so I took a picture. 

[Gliderjohn]

Keep her flying!. Beautiful bike and a very nice job of adapting that motor. I regret not taking up your offer to let me ride it.
GliderJohn

[twowings]

I've been fortunate enough to have seen and heard it in person and won't ever forget it. 

[Tkelly]

What are the performance stats?

[LowRyter]

What are the performance stats?

classified US Army secret.   

[Chuck in Indiana]

What are the performance stats?

Dogwalker, an old WGer from Italy, seemed to know something about it. He said they rated it at 63 horsepower, and cruised it at 5500 rpm. Now you know as much as I do, Tom. 

[Kiwi_Roy]

Dogwalker, an old WGer from Italy, seemed to know something about it. He said they rated it at 63 horsepower, and cruised it at 5500 rpm. Now you know as much as I do, Tom. 

Whats 5500 revs in MPH?

[Chuck in Indiana]

Whats 5500 revs in MPH?

Veglia or real? 

[Dirk_S]

Remind me what differed between the Aero and the 4V small block? Same displacement? Assuming it’s a different (and more reliable) head design? Crank and cam difference?

[Chuck in Indiana]

Remind me what differed between the Aero and the 4V small block? Same displacement? Assuming it’s a different (and more reliable) head design? Crank and cam difference?

750 instead of 650. Hemi heads with big valves. It was fuel injected and ignition was by the early computer. Of course the cam was different, too. I don't know about the crank.. didn't have to go in that far to change it all over. Don't know about compression ratio either. After minor teething problems, it *has* been super reliable over the years, as I expected.. and my butt dyno says it will still out run the modern small blocks.  Why they didn't build the Ippogriffo in the 90s confounds me.

[Frenchfrog]

Me too Chuck...I think they must have firstly run out of nerve ;or at least the upper management did. They had some of the promo stuff for the Ippo printed so it could not have been far off making the production lines.
Your engine is more or less what was going to power it , the gearbox was nothing new if my memory is correct  so the other changes were on the chassis. The price might well have been pretty staggering and my take is that's what killed it. All the design changes on the small blocs have been incremental and taken years to materialise whilst the bikes have never been cheap which is what leads me to that conclusion.

[rocker59]

Why they didn't build the Ippogriffo in the 90s confounds me.

My take on it is:  Moto Guzzi was struggling in the mid-1990s and they didn't have enough bank to get the Ippogrifo into production.  Instead of taking the project and running with it, new owner Aprilia killed it once they took the reins in 2000.  Amazing, since the Ippogrifo that made the rounds sure looked like a production-ready machine.

[rocker59]

  They had some of the promo stuff for the Ippo printed so it could not have been far off making the production lines.

Yes, it was in the 1997 and 1998 brochures.

Your engine is more or less what was going to power it , the gearbox was nothing new if my memory is correct  so the other changes were on the chassis. The price might well have been pretty staggering and my take is that's what killed it. All the design changes on the small blocs have been incremental and taken years to materialise whilst the bikes have never been cheap which is what leads me to that conclusion.

You're probably right.  Don't forget that Guzzi was on a shoestring budget and they dumped a ton of money into facelifting the V11 EV California for 1998.

Cost of production probably had the Ippo priced like a California 1100.  Nice front fork, updated transmission, cantilevered rear suspension.  The brochures all stated a Fall 1998 release, then the bike never became available.  I worked at a Triumph/Ducati/Moto Guzzi shop at the time.  We were all disappointed that the Ippo was a no-show, although the V11 EV California was nice to see.

[Frenchfrog]

Ii was forgetting that they must have been  getting the v 11 series together round about that time together too !!

[someguy]

"I'll bet many here have never seen one of these.."

More Pics! 

[Chuck in Indiana]

More Pics! 

I still have to torque the heads and adjust the valves. I'll show you some mechanical porn tomorrow. 

[Ratso88]

That’s right, maintenance porn required !

[twowings]

I still have to torque the heads and adjust the valves. I'll show you some mechanical porn tomorrow. 

Be gentle...this will be the first time for most of us...

[Chuck in Indiana]

On an annual inspection, the first thing I look at is the plugs. This *isn't* a plug chop, but it shows the engine to be running normally.

Here you can see the hemi head valve train which is totally different from the pent roof 4V or flat head V65. The valve lash is just where I left it (.006" and .008") chosen arbitrarily because I have no "book" to say what they should be.  Because they haven't moved, there's really no need to take it farther apart and torque the heads.

Small block aficionados might notice it's not the Lario transmission. It's from an 04 from memory Breva, and was a fairly easy swap. Since there was absolutely no way to package the huge computer on this small bike, I changed the ignition to Dyna S and made long intake runners for the 36mm pumper carbs.
Here's the way to tell what is *really* going on in the engine.. a leak down after the valves are adjusted, etc. 80 psi goes through a metered orifice and the leakage is shown on the second gauge. (home made leak down tester of course. )

Engines just don't get any better than this,  and both sides were the same.
One of the things that are neglected on the old small block is the advance mechanism. It needs to be cleaned and lubed regularly. It's behind the Dyna pickups.

 Scribing a line on the mating parts keeps a guy from having to retime the engine. Just line it up and you are back in business.
Those 3 yellow wires are power from the alternator. Wiggle them around.  Do the same to the red and blue one. The main reason for "Them Goozies ain't no good, Jehtro..they is always having electric problems" is simply corrosion on these low tech connectors. If you have some good (Caig DeOxit) contact cleaner, it's a good time to give them a squirt.
So that's about it on the care and feeding of the Aero engine, and the old small blocks in general.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Oh, almost forgot. For you history buffs.. I'm one of em.. here's the data plate.

[Cam3512]

I love that thing, and remember following the build.  If I recall correctly, the engine spun in the opposite direction because it was mounted on the rear of the aircraft.  And you had to reverse it?

[Chuck in Indiana]

I love that thing, and remember following the build.  If I recall correctly, the engine spun in the opposite direction because it was mounted on the rear of the aircraft.  And you had to reverse it?

Thanks, Cam.. I likes it my own self.  Actually the engine ran in the proper direction, but I had to reverse the oil flow from the pump because it sent it to the oil cooler which I removed.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Whats 5500 revs in MPH?

I took it for a ride today to find out, but I ran out of speedometer at 5200 rpm in forth. 

[kballowe]

Short video of the Aero - from the Wisconsin Rally 2018-08-04.
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfVtJAfQlTo

[John A]

Would it pull redline in top gear? Theoretically, of course.Might be going a little fast, what is the redline?

[Chuck in Indiana]

Would it pull redline in top gear? Theoretically, of course.Might be going a little fast, what is the redline?

Dunno, John. I arbitrarily chose 7200 as a redline, and power was still climbing on the dyno when the operator shut it down. It (oops) has been to 7500, though.

[normzone]

Chuck, do you have any theory why the valve clearances have not changed?

That doesn't sound very Guzzi-like, at least in my experience.

[Tkelly]

If you get it running bring it to WI and Moto will road test it and document its performance on his private proving grounds.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Moto tested it the last time I had it at the Wisconsin rally.  Of course, he's welcome to do a retest. I had it out last night, just hooning around. It's like a smaller Tonti LeMans.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Chuck, do you have any theory why the valve clearances have not changed?

That doesn't sound very Guzzi-like, at least in my experience.

As it ran in, I torqued the heads several times. I'm assuming the head gaskets have quit squashing (technical term)  and.. I don't put many miles on it any more.