How to tell if a V50 Monza is a real Monza?

[Handsonman]

Greetings,
New member here and reaching out to more knowledgeable folks in hopes of determining what makes a Monza, a Monza and not just a tarted up clone..
If I am in the wrong category, please advise !
My story is, I'm in the process of acquiring what is being offered as a 1981 V50 Monza. I've tried to do my due diligence in checking the serial numbers against the Netherland MG Owner's group, as well as reaching out to other dealers etc. who might know something about it.
Physically/visually, it appears to have  all the correct tinware , gauges, switches etc. The only obvious difference is, a round headlight and aftermarket bikini fairing, which the owner admits is non standard. But it looks right at home on the bike.
From what I can see, the frame and motor numbers have certain characteristics that identify the bike as a Monza, and yet the numbers don't seem to fall neatly into the ranges shown. But maybe such serial number lists aren't the last word, as factories weren't that concerned with accuracy as much as getting product out the door !
I will finish my long winded post and list the numbers, so members can advise whether or not they look correct for a Monza.
Frame number- ZGUPEAPE7BM100127
Motor number- PE*020879*
I can post photos if there's interest and I can figure out how to do so.
Thanks in advance for any help forthcoming.

[Tkelly]

Photos.

[guzzisteve]

Look in Guzziology, I know they have a taller geared trans than V50. These days I doubt there is a dealer who knows, none in business from then. They all been gone long time. Maybe Jim Hamlin in CT.

[Handsonman]

THE PAINT IS OBVIOUSLY AFTERMARKET, BUT LOOKS NICE ANYWAY

[guzzisteve]

Looks like one.

[pehayes]

they have a taller geared trans than V50.

IIRC, the actually gear changing transmission box is mostly the same on all models.  However, unlike the big Guzzi, the smallblock has a reduction gear pair behind the clutch and in front of the gear changing box.  There were at least four variants of the reduction gear pairing.  Which pair you have could only be actually verified by full disassembly.  Second tallest ratio was standard.  Third tallest ratio was Monza.  Fourth and final tallest was Lario.  Don't bother.  It might be possible to put it in gear and turn the engine over by wrench and count rear wheel revolutions to come up with the actual ratio which would identify reduction gearing.

Patrick Hayes
Fremont CA

[Dirk_S]

Don’t know how much it’ll help, but here’s the service manual for the small blocks at that time, including the V50 III and Monza. Manual can be downloaded from our man Gregory Bender’s THISOLDTRACTOR site:

https://www.thisoldtractor.com/mg_manuals/workshop_manual_v35-ii_v50-iii_v35-imola_v50-monza_v35c_v50c_v65_v65sp_en.pdf

[FarmallA]

The Monza has more rearset pegs, mounted behind the gearshift pivot. A regular V50 has the pegs below the starter motor and a longer shifter lever.

FarmallA
Steve

[faffi]

Greetings,
New member here and reaching out to more knowledgeable folks in hopes of determining what makes a Monza, a Monza and not just a tarted up clone..
If I am in the wrong category, please advise !
My story is, I'm in the process of acquiring what is being offered as a 1981 V50 Monza. I've tried to do my due diligence in checking the serial numbers against the Netherland MG Owner's group, as well as reaching out to other dealers etc. who might know something about it.
Physically/visually, it appears to have  all the correct tinware , gauges, switches etc. The only obvious difference is, a round headlight and aftermarket bikini fairing, which the owner admits is non standard. But it looks right at home on the bike.
From what I can see, the frame and motor numbers have certain characteristics that identify the bike as a Monza, and yet the numbers don't seem to fall neatly into the ranges shown. But maybe such serial number lists aren't the last word, as factories weren't that concerned with accuracy as much as getting product out the door !
I will finish my long winded post and list the numbers, so members can advise whether or not they look correct for a Monza.
Frame number- ZGUPEAPE7BM100127
Motor number- PE*020879*
I can post photos if there's interest and I can figure out how to do so.
Thanks in advance for any help forthcoming.

My first question to you would be: does it matter? If you want to buy it as an investment, remember that the bike is not stock, and hence not an ideal collectors item as is. If you buy it to ride and enjoy, will it affect your joy whether the bike is a clone or the real deal? Only you can know the answers to these questions 

The differences has already been pointed out by others. The gearing difference is quite noticeable; the Monza turn about 4200 rpm @ 60 mph in top gear, the MkI/II/III about 4700 rpm. AFAIK, the frame, wheels and brakes are identical, but some standard Mk-versions may have a different state of tune regarding the engine than that of the Monza. None are powerhouses; the Monza tested by MOTORRAD magazine made 32 rwhp. Cycle magazine did not measure the power of their test Monza, but it was a strong - for the model - runner, turning a 14.37 quarter-mile @ 91.37 mph. It delivered 47.8 mpg, or slightly less than 5 liters per 100 km. Wet weight with a full tank of gas was 180 kg, or 397 lbs.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Wrong fairing. I'll see if I can dig up pix of a real one.
Edit:
Here ya go. As far as I know, this one is bone stock. Yours has different turnsignals, fairing, no crash guards, but I think it's a Monza. One of Guzzi's finest efforts, IMHO.

[Frenchfrog]

It does look like the real deal apart from the paint and fairing : the Monza had sligtly rearsetted feet controls to go with the clip ons and also larger round carbs and also the bigger valves later used on the V50 3.With the gearing difference it all adds up to mare pokey bike than the V50 2  and a more sporty ride than the V50 3.

[faffi]

Crashbars were not standard equipment, were they?

[Handsonman]

Thanks for all the replies and opinions so far. If I may address the comment about buying it for an investment or for riding enjoyment, I have to say more for enjoyment than investment. Especially in these recent years where we see prices stagnating or even falling.
My thing is, I don't mind some practical upgrades or changes in paint schemes. Or the change to a round headlight from rectangular and the required change in fairing.
Those sorts of things can be changed back when appropriate parts present themselves. What I can't change is, correct serial numbers for a given model range.
This machine exhibits the correct prefix letters, it's the rest of the numbers that don't seem to fall into line with what is given for a certain range. But that can be just a fluke and not that serious.
Regarding the foot peg position, I've compared photos with other examples available on the internet and from what I can see, they all look to be in the same location.
I will probably proceed with acquiring the bike, as it certainly seems there's more right with it, than wrong.
Thanks again for all your input.
Cheers.

[Frenchfrog]

I don't think so  ...crash bars were extras on all the small blocs then afaik.very good option to have even if they don't look that great !!

[Tkelly]

Our 79 came with crash bars.

[Chuck in Indiana]

when appropriate parts present themselves

Good luck with that.  I've had a search for "Lario" on Ebay for years. It's been years since I've seen much.
You will *love* the little Monza. For whatever reason, it's better than what you would think when looking at the sum of it's parts. I think it's the best handling Tonti ever.

[normzone]

Wrong fairing. I'll see if I can dig up pix of a real one ...

Says the guy with the Aero Lario