NGC-new car stories good or bad

[SIR REAL ED]

I had a very educational talk with my brother in law who lives in NY state.

He recently bought a new car (a KIA) even though he loved his previous car which was only a few years old because the "check engine" light came on and in NY state you can not get an inspection sticker for a car if the check engine light is on.  Numerous trips to the OEM dealership proved they were unable to figure out the cause of the check engine light coming on.

The new KIA burns almost 1 quart of oil in 1,000 miles which is, strangely enough within OEM specifications.  IIRC, Yamaha and/or Suzuki relaxed the specifications on oil consumption after they botched the manufacturing process on a few bikes for a couple years.

He did not want third row seats, but removing the seats voids the warranty!  Same with adding tail light wiring to pull a trailer.

The conversation reminded of a previous conversation with a neighbor who wanted a new brand D truck, but ended up buying a new brand T truck since brand D would not allow him to check the engine oil level or change the oil.

The day may soon be here where most vehicles are leased and few are owned.

You guys dabble in the new vehicle world much more than I, what have you learned?

[fotoguzzi]

Google Subaru oil consumption and you can feel better about the Kia. (Applies to around 2010 models)
I don’t think they can void the overall warranty for removing a seat. The warranty on the seat might be voided, at least that’s the law in Minnesota.
Not too sure about the hitch issue since Kia themselves sell a hitch and wiring harness.

https://kiastuff.com/shop-by-model/2017-2025-kia-sportage-trailer-hitch-l134/#:~:text=Please%20note%2C%20dependent%20of%20what,Order%20your%20hitch%20today!&text=The%20Kia%20Sportage%20Trailer%20Hitch,the%20Hybrid%20and%20PHEV%20models.

[PeteS]

Not sure how old his Kia was but it should have been covered under warranty. Had friend with a 2012-13 Subaru who had the oil burning problem. The dealer offered him a new engine or a new car. Since the 2014s still had the problem they suggested waiting for the 2015s which he did and they gave him one, no charge.
Local family dealers are becoming fewer and fewer around here (upstate NY) being bought out by big conglomerates. Service varies.

Pete

[Dirk_S]

Google Subaru oil consumption and you can feel better about the Kia. (Applies to around 2010 models)

Thankfully Subaru heard enough complaints (I believe via a class action lawsuit or threat) and began offering a block replacement for a range of model years. My 2015 Forester was one of those oil burning beasts, but the new block completely alleviated that.

I sold my car last spring in part so I can have a sidecar rig and a two-wheeler at my apartment, and because I was just generally getting sick of the general population behind technically advanced cars and losing attention span. If I ever get a car again, it’s going to be completely dirt simple. Recently saw the inside of a Mini Cooper S engine bay and immediately fell in love. Something easy like that. Or maybe a mini truck.

[SIR REAL ED]

Google Subaru oil consumption and you can feel better about the Kia. (Applies to around 2010 models)
I don’t think they can void the overall warranty for removing a seat. The warranty on the seat might be voided, at least that’s the law in Minnesota.
Not too sure about the hitch issue since Kia themselves sell a hitch and wiring harness.

https://kiastuff.com/shop-by-model/2017-2025-kia-sportage-trailer-hitch-l134/#:~:text=Please%20note%2C%20dependent%20of%20what,Order%20your%20hitch%20today!&text=The%20Kia%20Sportage%20Trailer%20Hitch,the%20Hybrid%20and%20PHEV%20models.

Supposedly, voiding the warranty of the car is due to the seat belt sensors in the third row seat.  Sounds like a NY state regulation to me.  I can easily imagine the bureaucracy deciding that seats that don't exist don't need seat belts connected is not a valid argument. 

He said he has already gone down this route, and the available wiring harness from KIA does connect to the 2025 model.  Additionally the dealer told him that connecting anything electrical to the car voids the warranty!!!

Which is strange since the car came with the hitch attached, but no wiring harness to connect the trailer to the car!!!

My brother in law is a relentless researcher!  He has been stunned by KIA's responses and incompetence.  And also by the differing opinions on the KIA owner's forums.



Bizarre!

[SIR REAL ED]

Thankfully Subaru heard enough complaints (I believe via a class action lawsuit or threat) and began offering a block replacement for a range of model years. My 2015 Forester was one of those oil burning beasts, but the new block completely alleviated that.

I sold my car last spring in part so I can have a sidecar rig and a two-wheeler at my apartment, and because I was just generally getting sick of the general population behind technically advanced cars and losing attention span. If I ever get a car again, it’s going to be completely dirt simple. Recently saw the inside of a Mini Cooper S engine bay and immediately fell in love. Something easy like that. Or maybe a mini truck.

What year Mini Cooper are you looking at?

It is my understanding that the pre-2006 models are BMW's (cast iron block and cylinder) and are rock solid.  Post 2006 models are Renault or Peogeot (aluminum block and cylinder head) and are very problematic.

I recently ran across a local 2001 Supercharged model owned by a mechanic.  It was interesting.  198,000 mile and $3000.

The wife has often admired them, but said she was not interested.

All my current 4 wheel vehicles are from 2000-2003.  I have often entertained the idea of buying old vehicles (1970's Toyota truck?) and simply adding parts as needed to gain reliability.

[Dirk_S]

What year Mini Cooper are you looking at?

Oh, I was looking at the original 1967 Cooper S. When I said ‘dirt simple’, I meant it, heh

[SIR REAL ED]

Oh, I was looking at the original 1967 Cooper S. When I said ‘dirt simple’, I meant it, heh

Ah, yes!  The glory days of the automotive world!!!

I almost recently bought a beautifully restored 1963 Ford Falcone for only $8000.

If the car ever broke down on a cold night, you could pop the hood and 2 people could sleep in the engine bay!

[blackcat]

I own a 13 Outback with the 6 cylinder 3.6 engine and after long freeway trips it will use oil, but it requires 6 quarts of oil so I'm not too worried about adding half a quart after a trip and at 106,000 miles I expect it to last many years. The earlier 4 cylinder engines did have problems but I thought it was mostly limited to head gaskets.

 

[Moparnut72]

A quart of oil per 1,000 miles, I would expect a smoke screen behind the car but I suppose maybe the catalytic converter burned it off. But that is totally unacceptable. We had a Jeep a few years ago that used an excessive amount of oil in its first few thousand miles. I figured we had a warranty problem then it never used anymore afterward. I figured the rings just needed to be seated.
kk

[Mike Tashjian]

My 18 BMW R1200 uses the Canbus wiring which makes it hard to just wire in something. The computer is able to control things as long it is programed in, which I have no idea how to do.  So to bypass it for like running lights I piggybacked the Aux power outlet.  There are kits sold to add circuits and accessories which do play nice if you want to get more advanced.  I'm sure new cars have a simiar system.  E trailer has options for wiring in lights for most cars and trucks which, most average people can do. Some lights will get power from the main fuse box and just a signal to operate from the actual light. That way the computer doesn't sense an issue. 

[SIR REAL ED]

A quart of oil per 1,000 miles, I would expect a smoke screen behind the car but I suppose maybe the catalytic converter burned it off. But that is totally unacceptable. We had a Jeep a few years ago that used an excessive amount of oil in its first few thousand miles. I figured we had a warranty problem then it never used anymore afterward. I figured the rings just needed to be seated.
kk

I would not expect any smoke at that rate of oil burning.  I know a few people with Yamahas & Suzukis that burn oil at a rate of 1 quart per 1,000 miles and their bikes do not smoke.

It was not unusual for the Aprilia RXV/SXV bikes to burn oil at a rate of 1.5 quarts per 1,000 miles.  My RXV550 did this also.  No smoke.

Understandable since the RXV/SXV's were considered race bikes and had no oil control rings on the pistons.

Back in the day, my friend barely made it home from college for Christmas.  He said his truck barely made enough power to climb hills.  His Ford truck with the 240 straight six burned 10 quarts of oil during the 300 mile trek home.  THAT.... was a smokin machine!

We swapped the engine to a 300 straight six over Christmas and in the oil pan of the old engine there was half of pound of rings!  Ah, the good ole days......

[Vagrant]

JMHO, but the new synthetic oils really don't burn and smoke like conventional oils do. But they do carbon up everything.

[tommy2cyl]

No specific stories per se, but a word of advice on new vehicles oil change intervals.  My very trusted mechanic has advised ignoring the new car manufacturers recommendations of synthetic oil changes every 10,000 or 15,000 miles.  He stands by conventional oil
changes every 3-4 K miles, and synthetic every 5-6 K miles. I have watched several YT videos saying the same thing.  This long term
oil change stems from because cars are so expensive today that "longer maintenance  intervals" decrease cost of ownership. 
However, because so many cars are leased and turned back in with 30 to 50 K miles, that the problems of long interval oil changes
does not come to fruition with the original owner. 

[bronzestar1]

What has been said about "new" car oil change intervals is true.  My daughter has a '23 Toyota 4Runner, which has recommended oil change intervals of 10K, and my '25 Nissan Frontier is 8K.  I told my daughter under no circumstances should you abide by that 10K interval, and get it done every 5K instead.  I'm doing the same on my Frontier.  Oil and filter changes every 5K is relatively cheap insurance to increase the longevity of your vehicle, along with following the prescribed maintenance schedule.  I also put an oil catch can on my Frontier, since it has a direct-injection engine.  The catch can and hoses cost me all of $25, so money well spent.

On an "old" bucket list car I used to have, a 1983 Porsche 911 SC.  It was burgundy, turbo tail, 7" and 8" Fuchs, lowered, gorgeous car.  However, had I known then what I know now, I never would've bought it.  That generation of 911 was notorious for breaking head studs before 100K miles, and sure enough mine broke 6 on the driver's side, which required a complete engine rebuild.  A class-action lawsuit should've been filed against Porsche for this, since they recognized the issue and fixed it on the next gen 911 by using turbo head studs.  Also, the 915 transmission in the '83 was by far the worst transmission I've ever operated.  I should've done more research, and gotten the next gen 911 with the 3.2 engine and G50 trans.  There's a good chance I'd probably still have that car.

So the moral of the story is, do your research, and be prepared to ignore some of the factory-recommended service intervals...     

[Frulk]

  A Chevy Vega has entered the chat.

[Alfetta]

I feel for the peeps of New York...
It is unfortunate that they are forced to comply with a light bulb and the stupidity of manufactures "good Ideas"

I know I'm old, but the norm used to be, an oil, generator, temperature and brake failure lights, that's it.... This covered the critical safety functions along with informing the owner of the source of the issue without having to connect a diagnostic tool, update firmware, and look up codes..   

wow, what a concept...

Today the "check engine" light is an indicator that only states that the CPU isn't liking something, and it may or may not be critical, and it may or may not actually be and engine issue..   therefore it's kinda crap IMHO..

then we have the rub, when you get codes with your reader, they may be a result of an issue, but not the real issue, so unless you have the outrageously expensive manufactures PC diagnostic system, you are left with replacing expensive parts one at a time, until you find the culprit, and most are electric that the part sellers do not take back...

Or you can pay the local mechanic, and that's fine, but it's an expense that goes directly to the operational cost. they typically have a two hour minimum, and that's a hard pill to swallow when you are told the light was on due to a two minute sensor replacement.

oh well...   there's my rant....  Sorry

[SIR REAL ED]

I feel for the peeps of New York...
It is unfortunate that they are forced to comply with a light bulb and the stupidity of manufactures "good Ideas"
...

Today the "check engine" light is an indicator that only states that the CPU isn't liking something, and it may or may not be critical, and it may or may not actually be and engine issue..   

therefore it's kinda crap IMHO..

Well said.  At this point in conversations with friends and relatives who live in NY state, i usually say "Now would be a good time to ask me why I moved out of NY!"

Several mechanics (motorcycle and automotive) I have talked to say, in many instances a check engine light is completely meaningless, and can be activated by any number of extremely short lived glitches, driving in the rain, spark plug misfire, etc.

If I were in my brother in laws shoes, the conversation would have went something like this:

"What is wrong with my car?
"We can't get the check engine light to go out."
"So what is wrong with my car?  Why don't you fix it?"
"Nothing we tried gets the light to go out."
"So there really is nothing wrong with my car, cause if you did find anything wrong with it, you would have fixed it!  Since there is nothing wrong with my car, i expect you to put a new inspection sticker on it!"

My brother in law is the type to write the local newspapers, TV, radio stations etc. and share his story.  This could be a very interesting long term story.

[PeteS]

The issue is more about the dealer than NY Inspections. I have been able take care of all my check engine light issues myself.
You need to get a code reader to find out whats causing the error then address it. Most often is emissions related. O2 sensor bad, loose gas cap, charcoal filter, catalytic convertor. Convertors can be cleaned. A dealer won’t do that but you can do it.

Agree about waaaaaaay to many nannies on modern vehicles. Add motorcycles to the list. The maintenance wrench on my Triumph had been on for 14 years and not the one on the V85 is on and will likely stay on until the bike is sold.

Pete

[SIR REAL ED]

The issue is more about the dealer than NY Inspections. I have been able take care of all my check engine light issues myself.
You need to get a code reader to find out whats causing the error then address it. Most often is emissions related. O2 sensor bad, loose gas cap, charcoal filter, catalytic convertor. Convertors can be cleaned. A dealer won’t do that but you can do it.

Agree about waaaaaaay to many nannies on modern vehicles. Add motorcycles to the list. The maintenance wrench on my Triumph had been on for 14 years and not the one on the V85 is on and will likely stay on until the bike is sold.

Pete

Agreed.  I think the inability to pass inspection was the only reason he got rid of the previous car.  Almost sounds like a scam to sell him a new car.  Hopefully, he did not buy the new car from the dealer who could not fix the previous car.  IIRC, both were KIA's.

The oil burning issues are with his new car.  The previous car was fine.

When the wrench light on my KTM690 came on, I called the dealer and the service manager asked "If it is running OK, then ignore the light!"

[blackcat]

He bought a new KIA, the engine light won't go out, the dealer can't fix it or find out what it is and it burns oil.  Sounds like junk to me, why in the world doesn't he pursue a Lemon Law claim? Have they made four attempts to resolve this issue? If not, I'd keep going back until the fourth attempt was unsuccessful then make a claim. 
 
https://ag.ny.gov/resources/individuals/car-auto/new-car-lemon-law-fact-sheet

[Kev m]

I believe most states that have emissions inspections use the Check Engine Light as a hard no pass when illuminated because by definition it means the emissions system is out of spec. That's the only purpose of a modern CE Light.

Can't add a trailer harness - horse shit, that violates the Magnuson Moss Federal Warranty Act.

Same with the rear seats. I'd take my business elsewhere.

1 Qt/1000m has been an industry standard for decades. I find it ridiculous, but most OEM's I've dealt with utilize it and won't fix unless it's more than that.

10k oil changes. I started with 10k oil changes on M1 in the early 90's and have had engines go 300k+ on them. And that was before oil life monitors which adjust the interval based on an algorithm of run times, temperatures, etc. Our Mini Cooper S was regularly going 15-17k as determined by the monitor and was tight as a drum and didn't burn between changes at 125k of abusive driving.

Hell our $75k Defender has a factory spec of something like 21k miles/2 years. I confess we usually do it about every $10k/1 year, but it's probably fine to go the whole interval since it has something like 9L of synthetic oil.

Also we don't live in the desert or the artic. Though we get extremes in weather they are not that bad or that long which may help slightly. But then again the algorithms would compensate needed and they do slightly on our Jeeps.

[SIR REAL ED]

He bought a new KIA, the engine light won't go out, the dealer can't fix it or find out what it is and it burns oil.  Sounds like junk to me, why in the world doesn't he pursue a Lemon Law claim? Have they made four attempts to resolve this issue? If not, I'd keep going back until the fourth attempt was unsuccessful then make a claim. 
 
https://ag.ny.gov/resources/individuals/car-auto/new-car-lemon-law-fact-sheet

Not exactly.  The previous car had a check engine light that the dealer could not get to go out, and since it would not pass inspection, he was "forced" to buy another car.  I have no idea how many times he took the car to the dealer to fix the check engine light.

The new car is the one which burns oil.  And supposedly can not have the third row of seats removed without voiding the warranty.  And supposedly is so new that no technician is able to connect trailer wiring to the car.

[SIR REAL ED]

I believe most states that have emissions inspections use the Check Engine Light as a hard no pass when illuminated because by definition it means the emissions system is out of spec. That's the only purpose of a modern CE Light.

Can't add a trailer harness - horse shit, that violates the Magnuson Moss Federal Warranty Act.

Same with the rear seats. I'd take my business elsewhere.

1 Qt/1000m has been an industry standard for decades. I find it ridiculous, but most OEM's I've dealt with utilize it and won't fix unless it's more than that.

10k oil changes. I started with 10k oil changes on M1 in the early 90's and have had engines go 300k+ on them. And that was before oil life monitors which adjust the interval based on an algorithm of run times, temperatures, etc. Our Mini Cooper S was regularly going 15-17k as determined by the monitor and was tight as a drum and didn't burn between changes at 125k of abusive driving.

Hell our $75k Defender has a factory spec of something like 21k miles/2 years. I confess we usually do it about every $10k/1 year, but it's probably fine to go the whole interval since it has something like 9L of synthetic oil.

Also we don't live in the desert or the artic. Though we get extremes in weather they are not that bad or that long which may help slightly. But then again the algorithms would compensate needed and they do slightly on our Jeeps.

I usually* run non-synthetic oil for the first 10,000 miles.  Then switch to synthetic.

Then change the filter every six months and oil once a year.  Annual milege is 4,000 to 10,000 depending on which vehicle.

* - Usually is misleading since the newest vehicle I own is 22 years old.......  Lowest milege is 68,000, highest is 242,000.

[Kev m]

I usually* run non-synthetic oil for the first 10,000 miles.  Then switch to synthetic.

Then change the filter every six months and oil once a year.  Annual milege is 4,000 to 10,000 depending on which vehicle.

* - Usually is misleading since the newest vehicle I own is 22 years old.......  Lowest milege is 68,000, highest is 242,000.

I think maybe the 2016 Jeep JKU was the last dinosaur I bought that wasn't filled from the factory with synthetic oil (or maybe it was, I don't remember).

I haven't used conventional oil in anything in decades.

[SIR REAL ED]

I think maybe the 2016 Jeep JKU was the last dinosaur I bought that wasn't filled from the factory with synthetic oil (or maybe it was, I don't remember).

I haven't used conventional oil in anything in decades.

The only time I buy non-synthetic oil these days is if I buy a "new, used" vehicle. 

After adding some solvent, running the engine for a few minutes and draining the old oil, I might use petroleum based oil and run it for a hundred or so miles just to see how clean the oil stays.  If the oil does not look horribly dirty, the second draining/flushing occurs and I use synthetic based oil from then on.

Once past 100,000 miles, wear is pretty much non-existent, and vegetable oil would probably work just fine.  Or olive oil for Italian machinery of course.

Some day I need to do an experiment......

[Gliderjohn]

Ah, yes!  The glory days of the automotive world!!!

I almost recently bought a beautifully restored 1963 Ford Falcone for only $8000.

If the car ever broke down on a cold night, you could pop the hood and 2 people could sleep in the engine bay!

I married into a 69 falcon with the 6cyl. At one point it needed a valve job. I could pull and replace the head in about the same amount of time or even a bit less than it took to change the air filter on an 85 Dodge Colt turbo I had.

[Moparnut72]

Many years ago I had a '59 Studebaker PU with a 259 V8. It was very simply designed and the designers thought about service and repair. I could remove the engine in less than an hour and re-install in about the same amount of time. As an example there was a shaft on the clutch linkage that lined up with another on the bell housing. There was a sleeve that went over both of them with holes in the sleeve and shafts with pins in them. Pull the pins and slide the sleeve over and clutch linkage is then totally disconnected. Five minutes, the rest of the truck was similarly designed. That type of design is no longer done. Manufacturers are more concerned with production line speed and of course all the amenities make it worse.
kk

[Kev m]

Many years ago I had a '59 Studebaker PU with a 259 V8. It was very simply designed and the designers thought about service and repair. I could remove the engine in less than an hour and re-install in about the same amount of time. As an example there was a shaft on the clutch linkage that lined up with another on the bell housing. There was a sleeve that went over both of them with holes in the sleeve and shafts with pins in them. Pull the pins and slide the sleeve over and clutch linkage is then totally disconnected. Five minutes, the rest of the truck was similarly designed. That type of design is no longer done. Manufacturers are more concerned with production line speed and of course all the amenities make it worse.
kk

A comparison between any motor vehicle from over half a century ago and what is produced today is laughable. You might as well be comparing that Studebaker to a horse drawn carriage.

Any modern motor vehicle is doing 100 things that Studebaker didn't.

[Moparnut72]

Of course but the concept is valid. By the way Studebaker was a major horse drawn wagon manufacturer in it's beginning, in fact it was wheelbarrows in the goldfields in California during the gold rush.
kk