V7 Left Cylinder Knocking Sound

[Kev m]

The previous owner replied that the classic mistake the mechanic made during the oil change was over filling it.

Horse Hockey

[Parashootist]

Horse Hockey

Who knows. Not much I can do at this point besides figure out the issue and fix it. I don't expect I'll get anything from the seller besides the apology I received.

[Dirk_S]

Try this, JUST FOR FUN: reset the ECU. Let’s maybe see if something might have gone wonky, causing it to run lean and hot.

Also: wise to purchase the diagnostic cables and download GuzziDiag so you can read parameters.

[Parashootist]

Try this, JUST FOR FUN: reset the ECU. Let’s maybe see if something might have gone wonky, causing it to run lean and hot.

Also: wise to purchase the diagnostic cables and download GuzziDiag so you can read parameters.

What's the process for resetting the ECU? The spark plug was brown, maybe a bit lighter than perfect but didn't look LEAN! to me.


On a separate note, a few hours after my last message to the seller, he offered me $500 to help pay to fix my engine which was pretty amazing. I feel a bit bad but I accepted. I think there's a reasonable chance this will end up costing me more than $500+ my time but I'm happy with that offer. He obviously didn't really have to do anything in this scenario.

I'd love to find a service manual to download for this bike.

[Dirk_S]

What's the process for resetting the ECU? The spark plug was brown, maybe a bit lighter than perfect but didn't look LEAN! to me.

Uh, frigg…pull the negative terminal for like—30 minutes? I can’t find it in the literature. Someone else, please?

On a separate note, a few hours after my last message to the seller, he offered me $500 to help pay to fix my engine which was pretty amazing. I feel a bit bad but I accepted. I think there's a reasonable chance this will end up costing me more than $500+ my time but I'm happy with that offer. He obviously didn't really have to do anything in this scenario.

Wow. Simply…wow.

I'd love to find a service manual to download for this bike.

Ask, and ye shall… well, you know:

https://guzzitek.org/f/atelier_f.htm#pb

[Parashootist]

Uh, frigg…pull the negative terminal for like—30 minutes? I can’t find it in the literature. Someone else, please?

Wow. Simply…wow.

Ask, and ye shall… well, you know:

https://guzzitek.org/f/atelier_f.htm#pb

Thanks dude! I believe I found the ECU reset process. I'll give it a shot although I don't think it would explain the metal in the oil.

Right now I'm contemplating picking up a used engine and then tearing this one apart later but I should probably at least pull the left cylinder and check for play.

[Dirk_S]

If you decide to get another motor, I would consider upgrading to maybe a V72 or V73 motor. That would require a couple other components, like an ECU, etc, but I’ve seen one chap on ADVRider Even bolted up a V 85 with just a  little modification.

[Parashootist]

If you decide to get another motor, I would consider upgrading to maybe a V72 or V73 motor. That would require a couple other components, like an ECU, etc, but I’ve seen one chap on ADVRider Even bolted up a V 85 with just a  little modification.

I was under the impression that the V7ii and V7iii motors were at a different angle than the V7i since the exhausts are different. I'd love to be able to bolt in a newer motor with the 6 speed.

[Moparnut72]

To reset the ECU pull both battery cables and touch them together for a few seconds. I doubt that doing that will do you any good. BTW there was a study several months ago analyzing the swarf in the oil of new bikes. It was quite surprising but totally understandable. If I remember correctly Royal Enfields were the best of the bunch. Some premium brands didn't do so well but with modern filtration systems and filters I don't think it is a big concern. A good filter is a must but with the MGs I have owned three there were only two choices, the factory filter and HiFlo Filtro and I would think MG gets their filters from HiFlo.
kk

[Parashootist]

To reset the ECU pull both battery cables and touch them together for a few seconds. I doubt that doing that will do you any good. BTW there was a study several months ago analyzing the swarf in the oil of new bikes. It was quite surprising but totally understandable. If I remember correctly Royal Enfields were the best of the bunch. Some premium brands didn't do so well but with modern filtration systems and filters I don't think it is a big concern. A good filter is a must but with the MGs I have owned three there were only two choices, the factory filter and HiFlo Filtro and I would think MG gets their filters from HiFlo.
kk

Thanks! I don't think that will fix it but I'll still give it a try. I haven't put oil back in yet. I'm debating putting the oil that I drained back in since I dumped it into a clean pan and it had 400 miles on it. Seems a bit silly to pour 15 or 20 dollars of fresh oil into an engine I am likely going to be pulling apart.


I'm wondering if it did happen to be the big end bearing for that side whether it can be pulled from the bottom since it appears the rods bolt together. It would seem like I should be able to.

[Dirk_S]

I was under the impression that the V7ii and V7iii motors were at a different angle than the V7i since the exhausts are different. I'd love to be able to bolt in a newer motor with the 6 speed.

They are at a different angle. But the geometry might still work out. I mean, it did for the Samtech79 dude who posted on ADVRider:

https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/macho-testaroni-the-beater.1778465/

Granted, he’s an engineer, but it seemed to bolt up better than I expected. Worth reading the whole thread, but I imagine a V7 III motor into a V7 Classic frame will yield slightly easier results than the V85 motor. Still will have to work out some things like the exhaust headers, ECU, yada yada. But here’s your chance make this poor bastard custom and uniquely yours. Samtech79 posted on Guzzitech as well, but since he wasn’t interested in Todd’s ‘kind’ offer to do the build, the thread seemed to die. Oh, that Todd.

…Anyway… here are some comparison pics to potentially sway you one way or another:

V7 Classic motor:



V7 II motor:



V7 III motor:



V7 Classic frame:



V7 II frame:



V7 III frame:

[Dirk_S]

I’m wondering if it did happen to be the big end bearing for that side whether it can be pulled from the bottom since it appears the rods bolt together. It would seem like I should be able to.

Aww, yeah that would be nice, huh? Welcome to Smallblockville, where you can’t access the crank underneath through the sump like the folks over in Bigblock Town. Attempts to reach a con rod from underneath will yield this sexy view:

[Kev m]

They are at a different angle. But the geometry might still work out. I mean, it did for the Samtech79 dude who posted on ADVRider:

https://www.advrider.com/f/threads/macho-testaroni-the-beater.1778465/

Granted, he’s an engineer, but it seemed to bolt up better than I expected. Worth reading the whole thread, but I imagine a V7 III motor into a V7 Classic frame will yield slightly easier results than the V85 motor. Still will have to work out some things like the exhaust headers, ECU, yada yada. But here’s your chance make this poor bastard custom and uniquely yours. Samtech79 posted on Guzzitech as well, but since he wasn’t interested in Todd’s ‘kind’ offer to do the build, the thread seemed to die. Oh, that Todd.

…Anyway… here are some comparison pics to potentially sway you one way or another:

V7 Classic motor:



V7 II motor:



V7 III motor:



V7 Classic frame:



V7 II frame:



V7 III frame:

This skips the V7 MkI motor which differs slightly between the V7C and the MKII.

Granted that might not include any frame differences, but if that's true at least label the V7C as 2TB/1TB MKI or something to address it or, if different in those areas, note that.

As for putting a later motor and gearbox in an earlier model, I'd be torn. Between my MkI and MkIII, I kinda prefer my MkI. I might feel different with the EU5 or later versions. But from riding a V85, that's not what I would want. Ymmv.

[Parashootist]

Thanks for all these awesome responses. Super helpful. I'm thinking I'll likely take the path of least resistance if I choose to swap in a motor. I have a ton of project bikes to work on, I want to enjoy this bike.

It probably makes sense to pull the cylinder and see if there's play in the rod or maybe I should check the endplay first? Hmm.

This skips the V7 MkI motor which differs slightly between the V7C and the MKII.

Granted that might not include any frame differences, but if that's true at least label the V7C as 2TB/1TB MKI or something to address it or, if different in those areas, note that.

As for putting a later motor and gearbox in an earlier model, I'd be torn. Between my MkI and MkIII, I kinda prefer my MkI. I might feel different with the EU5 or later versions. But from riding a V85, that's not what I would want. Ymmv.

[Dirk_S]

This skips the V7 MkI motor which differs slightly between the V7C and the MKII.

Really? My bad—I didn’t know the motor-to-frame mounts were different, thus I didn’t think it was necessary to differentiate. But I totally get accuracy for clarity’s sake and posterity.

[Kev m]

Really? My bad—I didn’t know the motor-to-frame mounts were different, thus I didn’t think it was necessary to differentiate. But I totally get accuracy for clarity’s sake and posterity.

I'm not saying they ARE different. I'm saying not to assume they are not without checking. There ARE physical differences in the 2TB and ,1TB motors in terms of cylinders, heads, and covers. There are differences obviously in the EFI system. So I just don't want to assume what's the same without verification. That's all I was trying to say.

[Vagrant]

If you got 500 back, I'd just ride it until it breaks. 50/50 chance it never will. Then scrap it for parts or find an engine.

[guzzisteve]

If it were my bike I'd ride it & look at oil & filter, maybe even use Dino oil for cost. It may be nothing but a noise. It will get louder if something is wearing thin. ALL the rest is just speculation about an issue we can't see, hear or ride.

[Moparnut72]

It would help a lot if you could post a video with sound. Your phone should be able to do that.
kk

[yrunvs]

In my experience whenever I hear something unusual from my bike I jump to the worst case scenario. A sound bite of the knocking would be helpful.

[guzzisteve]

You can also send your oil for an annalist to tell you what metal is in the oil & go from there.

[Dirk_S]

You can also send your oil for an annalist to tell you what metal is in the oil & go from there.

Be careful, Steve—one dropped ‘n’ and we’ll start questioning your extra-curricular activities

[Parashootist]

You can also send your oil for an annalist to tell you what metal is in the oil & go from there.

I considered this but since I can see the metal and it doesn't stick to a magnet, that kind of narrows it down to aluminum or whatever metal the rod bearings are made out of.

It's a shame, the engine runs really nicely.

I'm going to make a decision on purchasing a used replacement engine today. I'd imagine trying to ask Guzzi for a "warranty" would be a bit silly at this point. The DOM on the bike is 9/2014 so it's probably past the goodwill grace period?

Just not sure if I should do more diagnosing (pull the cylinder) before buying the replacement.

[guzzisteve]

I'm celebrating W. Virginia rally's of yesteryear. I used to buy new Guzzi's & go to ours in IL then W.V. then Kansas and back to farm for break-in oil change. I'm retired, can catch a buzz anytime. Can't type or spell, not my cup of T.

See how slow I type

I'd ride it till it says otherwise, maybe even hammer on it, make it go. Maybe it's been babied and full of carbon. More likely crank a hair out of balance. They ain't perfect.

[Parashootist]

I'm celebrating W. Virginia rally's of yesteryear. I used to buy new Guzzi's & go to ours in IL then W.V. then Kansas and back to farm for break-in oil change. I'm retired, can catch a buzz anytime. Can't type or spell, not my cup of T.

See how slow I type

I'd ride it till it says otherwise, maybe even hammer on it, make it go. Maybe it's been babied and full of carbon. More likely crank a hair out of balance. They ain't perfect.

I thought about riding it as is until it gets worse but the thought of it locking up on the highway at 85 isn't very appealing. Plus right now the cylinders, head, etc are all likely good, if the left rod bearing fails and takes out the head then those parts can't be sold later.

Decisions, decisions.

[guzzisteve]

Low mileage bike w/noise that disappears over 3K rpm, I'd ride it 1K and check the oil or send it off. Rods are steel w/inserts, same on crank.
I would look at rocker pin ends if yours has end caps that come loose, can't remember if that was 85TT. Worth a look.
If it was going to come apart you would know in advance. Unless you wear helmet w/earplugs or speakers.

You should have another V7 rider listen to it, something to compare it to before spending & rebuilding over nothing but a Guzzi noise.

[Parashootist]

Low mileage bike w/noise that disappears over 3K rpm, I'd ride it 1K and check the oil or send it off. Rods are steel w/inserts, same on crank.
I would look at rocker pin ends if yours has end caps that come loose, can't remember if that was 85TT. Worth a look.
If it was going to come apart you would know in advance. Unless you wear helmet w/earplugs or speakers.

You should have another V7 rider listen to it, something to compare it to before spending & rebuilding over nothing but a Guzzi noise.

Fair points. I'm just not used to seeing metal in two oil changes only 400 miles apart. Even when I owned a Ural, there wouldn't be glitter in the oil and filter, just some swarf on the drain plug magnet. The noise may not actually go away above 3k, I just may not hear it anymore. I do generally wear earplugs when I ride, sometimes I'll listen to music. It's pretty rare that I ride without earplugs since I'm trying to keep my tinnitus from getting any worse.

[guzzisteve]

I hear saw blades spinning, like component & web saws. I'm glad it's not screeching. You could hook your phone up to hear your motor running and listen. Real HiTech eh.  I never wore a helmet till 20yrs ago. I can still hear a cars tires on the road right behind me even w/my helmet on. I also wore earplugs while running the saws but must not have been enough.

I wouldn't think twice about going till it makes no noise or more, enjoy it

[Tom H]

Since you have a 2014 build date, I feel you can safely rule out the thrust washer issue.

You have good suggestions so far on how to handle it.

Best of luck!
Tom

[Parashootist]

Since you have a 2014 build date, I feel you can safely rule out the thrust washer issue.

You have good suggestions so far on how to handle it.

Best of luck!
Tom

Thanks. I'm leaning towards swapping in a different motor. Besides just ignoring it, it's the quickest solution. I think I'll have a hard time riding the bike with the thought that it's going to grenade in the back of my mind.