Verified Solenoid bad - Need Starter

[SemperVee]

 Need replacement Solenoid for 2007 Norge 1200  - where to find or where did you buy your CARC Bosch replacement starter?

 Yes I took apart both solenoid and starter and the solenoid is bad.  Bosch starter cleaned up looks as new inside. Original Bosch made in Hungary 2006.

Anyone replaced theirs - where did you get it from or even Amazon?

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

First off - what Guzzi?

[Tom H]

If it's an old style Bosch starter and when you apply power to the solenoid by itself and the plunger pulls in, the solenoid may just need to be pulled apart and the heavy contacts inside cleaned up. IIRR there should be 2 screws and you need to melt the solder at the small terminals to slide the end cap off. If your careful you can just melt the solder again and slip the end cap back on. You'll need to melt the solder on one terminal and pull the cap up just a tad, then do the other terminal and repeat until the cap comes off.

Tom

[n3303j]

This one?
https://www.euromotoelectrics.com/product-p/valeo-solenoid.htm

https://www.euromotoelectrics.com/Starter-Solenoid-BMW-Airhead-BO157-SOL1-p/bo157-sol1.htm

https://www.euromotoelectrics.com/Starter-Solenoid-BMW-R-Airhead-MG-BO157-SOL2-p/bo157-sol2.htm

[SemperVee]

First off - what Guzzi?

My Bad,  2007 Norge

[SemperVee]

This one?
https://www.euromotoelectrics.com/product-p/valeo-solenoid.htm

https://www.euromotoelectrics.com/Starter-Solenoid-BMW-Airhead-BO157-SOL1-p/bo157-sol1.htm

https://www.euromotoelectrics.com/Starter-Solenoid-BMW-R-Airhead-MG-BO157-SOL2-p/bo157-sol2.htm

Thank you!  The second one is pretty close and my shorted out solenoid body is black so a call to to company to confirm.   

[guzzisteve]

Best to find a starter /alternator shop they should match the Chinese Bosch, or buy a Valeo so you can get parts.

[Wayne Orwig]

How do you know it is bad? They have a REALLY low resistance that is almost impossible to measure with a normal meter.
Could be startus interuptus? That looks like a bad/stuck solenoid.

[SemperVee]

How do you know it is bad? They have a REALLY low resistance that is almost impossible to measure with a normal meter.
Could be startus interuptus? That looks like a bad/stuck solenoid.

Yes you are correct but I have the yellow wire SI fix done years ago.  Thanks.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

If you want to replace the whole starter, the Valeo copies are very inexpensive and work well.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/296937369596

[SemperVee]

If you want to replace the whole starter, the Valeo copies are very inexpensive and work well.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/296937369596

Thanks for the info - Would be nice if it were true but your ebay web jump info shows (12V High Torque Starter for Moto Guzzi 1969 1970 1971 1972)  will not work for 2007 Norge *but looks just like the one I took off?   Are you stating you know that it does?  That would be great..  They can't be that different can they after all...

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Thanks for the info - Would be nice if it were true but your ebay web jump info shows (12V High Torque Starter for Moto Guzzi 1969 1970 1971 1972)  will not work for 2007 Norge *but looks just like the one I took off?   Are you stating you know that it does?  That would be great..  They can't be that different can they after all...

I using one on the 2007 Norge powered Ambassador I'm building for a customer.

[Kiwi_Roy]

This is the solenoid that causes Startus Interuptus
It has two coils inside and draws about 50 Amps for a split second while pulling the gear into place, if the wiring is up to it
On the CARC bikes the factory use a tiny wire from the relay to the solenoid, replace it with something decent e.g. 16 AWG
the relay of course should have a dedicated 20 Amp feed direct from the battery not to hell and back through the bikes loom and switches.
Roy

[Kiwi_Roy]

Need replacement Solenoid for 2007 Norge 1200  - where to find or where did you buy your CARC Bosch replacement starter?

 Yes I took apart both solenoid and starter and the solenoid is bad.  Bosch starter cleaned up looks as new inside. Original Bosch made in Hungary 2006.

Anyone replaced theirs - where did you get it from or even Amazon?

How do you know the solenoid is bad, is the winding fried?
Or is it just not pulling in because the wiring is too weak (Startus Interuptus)

[SemperVee]

How do you know the solenoid is bad, is the winding fried?
Or is it just not pulling in because the wiring is too weak (Startus Interuptus)

I had SI installed.   Checked ohms via meter and it failed.  With voltage does not engage.  *When installed on bike caused short out fuse whenever I pushed start button. 20amp fused connection soldered 16G yellow wire attached fm start relay to +pos bat.  Removed starter,  ignition on, push start button - fuse is fine.  Starter taken apart and looks new inside.  Can't find solenoid alone for sale so need to buy new starter complete with solenoid.

[SemperVee]

I using one on the 2007 Norge powered Ambassador I'm building for a customer.

That is great news then and it looks just like my Bosch original and comes with  1 year warranty.  Thanks for qualifying information.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Thank you!  The second one is pretty close and my shorted out solenoid body is black so a call to to company to confirm.

Using an Ohmeter it probably seems like it's shorted but in reality it's about 0.25 Ohms 12 Volt / 0.25 Ohms = 48 Amps, that's about right. for a Guzzi.
Take a hot wire nd flash it from battery positive, it will crank, trust me!

[SemperVee]

Using an Ohmeter it probably seems like it's shorted but in reality it's about 0.25 Ohms 12 Volt / 0.25 Ohms = 48 Amps, that's about right. for a Guzzi.
Take a hot wire nd flash it from battery positive, it will crank, trust me!

Roy, I wish it had. I have wired a 10G wire from battery+ to momentary  button switch to solenoid spade and it did nothing but make a whoosh sound.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Yes you are correct but I have the yellow wire SI fix done years ago.  Thanks.

That's only half the job, the wire Guzzi provide from relay to starter solenoid is way too small as well cut it adjacent to the relay and crimp on a 16 AWG or equivalent with a new crimp link at the solenoid end.

Roy

[Kiwi_Roy]

That's only half the job, the wire Guzzi provide from relay to starter solenoid is way too small as well cut it adjacent to the relay and crimp on a 16 AWG or equivalent with a new crimp link at the solenoid end.

Roy

Sorry, is your temporary button rated at 50 Amps?
Better to just touch the wire on battery.

[SemperVee]

Sorry, is your temporary button rated at 50 Amps?
Better to just touch the wire on battery.

Yes, I made sure the button was rated at 50 AMPS and waterproof heavy duty for automotive marine use.

[SemperVee]

That's only half the job, the wire Guzzi provide from relay to starter solenoid is way too small as well cut it adjacent to the relay and crimp on a 16 AWG or equivalent with a new crimp link at the solenoid end.

Roy

SO you are saying to add another wire from the yellow relay connection to solenoid spade REPLACING the factory one connected to the solenoid, spade if I understand correctly?
AND - Roy, thanks for the insight but "No click" nothing but the fuse frying?   Why is the fuse blowing as soon as I press the handlebar start button if the solenoid was not shorted out?

Thanks, SV

[Wayne Orwig]

SO you are saying to add another wire from the yellow relay connection to solenoid spade REPLACING the factory one connected to the solenoid, spade if I understand correctly?
AND - Roy, thanks for the insight but "No click" nothing but the fuse frying?   Why is the fuse blowing as soon as I press the handlebar start button if the solenoid was not shorted out?

Thanks, SV

Sounds like it likely is a bad unit. Probably time for a replacement.

Does the solenoid move? When the solenoid pulls in the contacts bypass (turn off) one of the coils. If that 'boost' coil stays engaged, it keeps pulling WAY too much current for the fuse. It is OK for 1/2 second, then pop. So a bad contact can do it, or anything interfering with it.

[SemperVee]

Sounds like it likely is a bad unit. Probably time for a replacement.

Does the solenoid move? When the solenoid pulls in the contacts bypass (turn off) one of the coils. If that 'boost' coil stays engaged, it keeps pulling WAY too much current for the fuse. It is OK for 1/2 second, then pop. So a bad contact can do it, or anything interfering with it.

Does the solenoid move?  No.  And no click. Just get fried starter fuse.   Solenoids do wear out.

* new starter ordered - BIG THANK YOU TO ALL THAT CHIMED IN.  It is the problem that just won't go away that most of us with CARC bikes suffer with.
 

[SemperVee]

That's only half the job, the wire Guzzi provide from relay to starter solenoid is way too small as well cut it adjacent to the relay and crimp on a 16 AWG or equivalent with a new crimp link at the solenoid end.

Roy

Roy, attach a new 16AWG wire to the same yellow wire that is currently connected to the fused battery to the solenoid spade. Also, disconnect the factory thin spade wire at that location and tape off. Do I understand this correctly? Thanks for clarifying.

[Kiwi_Roy]

Sounds like it likely is a bad unit. Probably time for a replacement.

Does the solenoid move? When the solenoid pulls in the contacts bypass (turn off) one of the coils. If that 'boost' coil stays engaged, it keeps pulling WAY too much current for the fuse. It is OK for 1/2 second, then pop. So a bad contact can do it, or anything interfering with it.

When the system is working at optimum the solenoid should engage in 10 milliseconds at least thats what I found on my Griso after doing the SI fix and upgrading the wire from relay to solenoid.
I forget what I calculated the resistance to be on the Griso but it will be 0.25 Ohms or less
See my post called "Drop Test" (how to calculate the value of a low resistance)
Of course it is possible the coil is shorted out but I haven't seen one short out yet.

[SemperVee]

When the system is working at optimum the solenoid should engage in 10 milliseconds at least thats what I found on my Griso after doing the SI fix and upgrading the wire from relay to solenoid.
I forget what I calculated the resistance to be on the Griso but it will be 0.25 Ohms or less
See my post called "Drop Test" (how to calculate the value of a low resistance)
Of course it is possible the coil is shorted out but I haven't seen one short out yet.

Well you have seen one  dead solenoid now.  DEAD - will not move on bench test with power applied.  no movement.

[SemperVee]

If you want to replace the whole starter, the Valeo copies are very inexpensive and work well.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/296937369596

Got one ordered Charlie! thanks for the tip!!

[Kiwi_Roy]

I using one on the 2007 Norge powered Ambassador I'm building for a customer.

 :gotpics:Please, sounds like a nice mix of old and new.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

:gotpics:Please, sounds like a nice mix of old and new.

Hundreds of photos on my Facebook business page:
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.3562813957174043&type=3

I built it "rough" first to make sure it all worked, then took it completely apart to make everything "pretty". In the process of reassembling now. Here's how it looked the day before it ran for the first time.





Here's the first start: https://youtu.be/QynKxtPK01k?si=vuZ9ZJMsCxv9Eb87