Anybody have leaks between tire and bead?

[faffi]

I have found that on old style rims, meaning without the "safety hump" on the wheel bead, if tires get too deflated, they will not hold air properly. By that I mean there tend to become a slow leak between the tire and the rim. If both parts are known to be clean, I fill the tire with air, spray soapy water around the bead on both sides, find the leaking spots, then gently pry the tire inwards a bit. I spray some extra soapy water between the tire and wheel bead, air up the tire and usually the leak is gone. Until next time.

I presume the issue stems from one of two things more often than not; either the tire will not slide 100% back in place - hence lubing with soapy water to assist this - or there is either a good amount of dried tire fitting soap, or some other debris preventing a full mechanical seal. In the latter case, it is my experience that the bead must be broken, parts fully cleaned, then refitted.

But does anyone have a better idea? Other than checking tire pressure often, that is 

[DoubleGuzzi]

On my '95 Monster M600, I could only stop a very slow leak by using some cheap(ish) tyre mounting paste. Otherwise I'd lose about 10psi every week or so. I did try using just soapy water but to no avail.

[faffi]

These were originally fitted at a tire shop using mounting paste, or whatever it is called in English, but unlike many it did not leave a visible goo. I do not want to take this tire off the beads, because in order to get it seated, it took 110 PSI !!! That's why I took to the tire shop, because I could not seat it using 75 PSI, and did not want to risk going higher in case the rim or tire ended up bursting. The tire guy was not worried going to 110, though.

That said, so far it has kept the pressure fine for several weeks, but since the bike has not been on the road for two years, I forget to check and fill often enough.

[Oca Grassa]

I have had this issue previously and on modern rims even. What I found is, the bead seat on the rim was marked up from tire spoons, that chipped or scratched off the paint. Use of dish soap as tire lube caused the formation of aluminum oxide in those chips & scratches.

The white powder that forms as aluminum oxide expands as it is produced. The expansion pushed the tire bead off the rim bead sufficiently to allow air to escape. It looked a bit like this:




Definitely had to de-bead the tire to clean up the corrosion and treat the surface to prevent further occurrence. My advice would be to do the same. Clean the surface thoroughly and apply something to stop the corrosion before remounting the tire.

[Perazzimx14]

These were originally fitted at a tire shop using mounting paste, or whatever it is called in English, but unlike many it did not leave a visible goo. I do not want to take this tire off the beads, because in order to get it seated, it took 110 PSI !!! That's why I took to the tire shop, because I could not seat it using 75 PSI, and did not want to risk going higher in case the rim or tire ended up bursting. The tire guy was not worried going to 110, though.

That said, so far it has kept the pressure fine for several weeks, but since the bike has not been on the road for two years, I forget to check and fill often enough.

FWIW - If you take the same tire on/off the bike 5 times in a row it'll take 5 different pressures to seat the bead. Just because it took 100 PSI one time does not mean it'll take that every time.

I've had tires seat with 20 PSI and other took at or above 100 PSI and seat with an autorotative high pitch "ping"

For a bit of safety, a clip-on air chuck and a foot pedal to dispense air allow the tire jockey to get away from the tire in case it gives way. Using a push on air chuck keep the tire jockey hoveing over the tire. Not a good place to be.

[Kiwi_Roy]

You must be taking tubeless, right?
Take the tire off and polish up the rim with  buffing wheel then refit the tire using tire lube.

[faffi]

I have had this issue previously and on modern rims even. What I found is, the bead seat on the rim was marked up from tire spoons, that chipped or scratched off the paint. Use of dish soap as tire lube caused the formation of aluminum oxide in those chips & scratches.

The white powder that forms as aluminum oxide expands as it is produced. The expansion pushed the tire bead off the rim bead sufficiently to allow air to escape. It looked a bit like this:




Definitely had to de-bead the tire to clean up the corrosion and treat the surface to prevent further occurrence. My advice would be to do the same. Clean the surface thoroughly and apply something to stop the corrosion before remounting the tire.

I know, and it has happened to me before at times, but this rim was cleaned, sanded and the scratches smoothed well over before the tire was first fitted, and still looks shiny when I deflate the tire and push it some way from the bead. It was the same story with the previous set, which I did remove - there was paste on the tire and bead, but no corrosion.

The real issue for me is that the tire will retain 30 PSI for weeks with hardly any drop of pressure, then one day it is zero. If I just inflate it then, it will be flat again in a day. I therefore spray on Windex or similar that is allowed to enter between the tire and bead, pump it up, and it all repeat itself. The tire only start leaking visibly if I let it go flat - if I could remember to check it every 2nd week, there would not be an issue. Hm, that was not the best explanation ever written, but hopefully you get what I am trying to explain.

[faffi]

FWIW - If you take the same tire on/off the bike 5 times in a row it'll take 5 different pressures to seat the bead. Just because it took 100 PSI one time does not mean it'll take that every time.

I've had tires seat with 20 PSI and other took at or above 100 PSI and seat with an autorotative high pitch "ping"

For a bit of safety, a clip-on air chuck and a foot pedal to dispense air allow the tire jockey to get away from the tire in case it gives way. Using a push on air chuck keep the tire jockey hoveing over the tire. Not a good place to be.

I tried to reseat it a number of times myself, and the shop removed the tire and refitted it, but you may be correct in that it could suddenly just decide to slip onto the beads easily.

As to the pressure - I do not plan to find out what can happen by going past 75 or so myself, but the tire bloke said the volume is not enough in a motorcycle tire to provide a big risk, while huge tractor tires will kill.

[Rebochi]

   I clean and polish the bead seat then seal it spray contact cleaner before inflating the tire. It seems to end any leaks from seating area. When removing the old tire I cut the bead with a skinny wheel on the angle grinder instead of fighting the bead with tire irons.

[SIR REAL ED]

For a bit of safety, a clip-on air chuck and a foot pedal to dispense air allow the tire jockey to get away from the tire in case it gives way. Using a push on air chuck keep the tire jockey hovering over the tire. Not a good place to be.

Yep.  For safety, never, ever have the sidewall of the tire against a solid surface that can be used as a launching pad.  That sudden "pop" can turn an entire wheel into a lethal projectile.

[John Croucher]

Most likely leaking at the mold ridges on the tire seating area. Seen this many times.

[drdwb]

Funny this post comes up now. Yesterday I changed the front tire on my 07 Norge, the Metzler tire clearly states the tire pressure should not exceed 40lbs when seating the tire. I used good quality NAPA tire paste, both beads set pretty quickly with the valve core out,Definitely heard the pop/ping, but I’ve no idea what pressure was.  When installing new tires I always check the line on the tire sidewall just above rim, that should be equal distance from the rim all the way around. This one wasn’t in one spot, so I released the air, bounced the tire several times while turning it. Than put a ratchet strap around the perimeter of the tire cranked it in a few times and aired it up again with valve core out, as I was checking the line I noticed soap bubbles around the rim in a couple areas. Deflated tire, put valve core in and took it up to 36lbs. No sign of bubbles and the tire has maintained 36 lbs 24 hours later.
My system puts out a max of 90-95 lbs but maybe it was enough to exceed the stated 40 lb seating pressure.
If something changes or tire starts losing air I’ll add to this post. So far looks good, now going for test ride.

[Perazzimx14]

Funny this post comes up now. Yesterday I changed the front tire on my 07 Norge, the Metzler tire clearly states the tire pressure should not exceed 40lbs when seating the tire. I used good quality NAPA tire paste, both beads set pretty quickly with the valve core out,Definitely heard the pop/ping, but I’ve no idea what pressure was.  When installing new tires I always check the line on the tire sidewall just above rim, that should be equal distance from the rim all the way around. This one wasn’t in one spot, so I released the air, bounced the tire several times while turning it. Than put a ratchet strap around the perimeter of the tire cranked it in a few times and aired it up again with valve core out, as I was checking the line I noticed soap bubbles around the rim in a couple areas. Deflated tire, put valve core in and took it up to 36lbs. No sign of bubbles and the tire has maintained 36 lbs 24 hours later.
My system puts out a max of 90-95 lbs but maybe it was enough to exceed the stated 40 lb seating pressure.
If something changes or tire starts losing air I’ll add to this post. So far looks good, now going for test ride.

Valve core in or valve core out does not make a difference in the pressure it takes for the tire to push over the bead. The valve core out certainly helps on initially getting the tire to flex against the wheel to begin to seal but once the tire takes air it not so much a volume as much as pressure.

I have a small 3-gallon compressor and cannot seat tire beads with the valve core out as it exhausts the volume too quickly. Fortunately, most of the tires I have worked on even with the valve core in the 3-gallon put out enough volume to flex the bead against the tire. For the stubborn tires that need high volume I bought a knock off bead cheetah instead of buying a higher volume compressor. If your bike has TPMS there is a very goos chance the air inlet opening in the sensor itself is only about 1/16" diameter so it is very restrictive even w/o the valve core installed.

FWIW if the tire is talking air and building pressure the rachet strap and or bouncing the tire is not really doing anything. The rachet strap is one of the work around for when a compressor does not have enough volume to push the tire towards the bead as it squishes the tire towards the bead allowing it to seal and take air. Bouncing the tire is only effective at centering the tire on the wheel when totally deflated. If it has and is holding air pressure bouncing will not make the bead seat. To seat the bead you need enough air pressure to push the tire bead over the wheel bead.

[faffi]

Funny this post comes up now. Yesterday I changed the front tire on my 07 Norge, the Metzler tire clearly states the tire pressure should not exceed 40lbs when seating the tire. I used good quality NAPA tire paste, both beads set pretty quickly with the valve core out,Definitely heard the pop/ping, but I’ve no idea what pressure was.  When installing new tires I always check the line on the tire sidewall just above rim, that should be equal distance from the rim all the way around. This one wasn’t in one spot, so I released the air, bounced the tire several times while turning it. Than put a ratchet strap around the perimeter of the tire cranked it in a few times and aired it up again with valve core out, as I was checking the line I noticed soap bubbles around the rim in a couple areas. Deflated tire, put valve core in and took it up to 36lbs. No sign of bubbles and the tire has maintained 36 lbs 24 hours later.
My system puts out a max of 90-95 lbs but maybe it was enough to exceed the stated 40 lb seating pressure.
If something changes or tire starts losing air I’ll add to this post. So far looks good, now going for test ride.

It is not uncommon to see bubbles for a little while after fitting a new tire, but it is usually just small amounts of air trapped between the tire and wheel bead that work its way out. Your tire should be just fine.