Can Removing the ABS System Damage the ECU?

[Dirk_S]

I’m 96% sure that I want to remove the ABS on my V7 III, but if I recall (and I could be lying to myself), a Guzzi dealer in the Midwest had told me that doing so will eventually fry the ECU. Is there validity to this statement?

[Perazzimx14]

I’m 96% sure that I want to remove the ABS on my V7 III, but if I recall (and I could be lying to myself), a Guzzi dealer in the Midwest had told me that doing so will eventually fry the ECU. Is there validity to this statement?

I have no idea on MG's but its common place to eliminate and/or bypass the ABS on BMW's with iABS-III servo assist brakes w/o shortening the longevity of the ECU. I have done it both ways by seperating the ABS unit fromt he "brain" and remounting the brain or just leaving the ABS/brain in place and removing the and bypassing the brake lines.

If memory serves the V7 have a fues that you can pull effectively making the ABS inoperable. Not sure the ECU would know any different if the ABS is not powered or removed in it entirety??

[Griso8V]

Just curious:  Why would one want to disable the ABS?  It seems, to me at least, an important safety feature...
Just asking...
Tony C

[ridingron]

Just curious:  Why would one want to disable the ABS?  It seems, to me at least, an important safety feature...
Just asking...
Tony C

A +1 on this comment. I understand it's your bike, do as you please. Just curious.

Any idea how that might affect your insurance? I get a price break because all my bike have ABS.

[Dirk_S]

An airbag vest is nice to have. How many of y’all wear that? Full leg armor. A motorcycle with gyroscopic ability to keep you upright. Heck— Four wheels and a cage around you.

Less stuff for the computer to crap out on. This is my go-everywhere bike, and I’d prefer it lean toward the simpler R80 G/S way of living rather than the R1300 GS lifestyle.

I’m even considering going carbureted with this bike.

[Dirk_S]

Any idea how that might affect your insurance? I get a price break because all my bike have ABS.

They’re fine with it, but they said I could lose a discount.

[ridingron]

I was thinking in the case of a claim. Good that they are OK with it, I would like that in writing.

[faffi]

While ABS have become really good, it work less and less well the more slippery the road surface become. Hence on gravel and on snow and ice, ABS does not come close to matching a skilled rider. Or car driver. Another issue is bumbs, which can trick some ABS systems into thinking the bike is about to do a stoppie, and hence reduce braking power. IIRC,  the V9 manual warn about this, as does many other bikes.

Since 1980, I could perhaps been better off one time with ABS. That was in 2007. With today's best systems, definitely. But if I had started to use ABS in 1988, I would either have had to slow down quite a bit, or I would have failed to stop in time hundreds of times. I still hate ABS in cars, but now that I just trundle around, I am not bothered with it on my bikes. Still not something I would choose if given the option. YMMV.

[faffi]

They’re fine with it, but they said I could lose a discount.

You would have to be very unlucky for an inspector to notice ABS was missing after an accident, plus the opponent would have to prove that the outcome would have been different had the bike been fitted with a working ABS system.

[Perazzimx14]

You would have to be very unlucky for an inspector to notice ABS was missing after an accident, plus the opponent would have to prove that the outcome would have been different had the bike been fitted with a working ABS system.

In the US of A motorcycles are not required or have to be equipped with functional ABS like has been the case with automobiles for over a decade. On my oil cooled BMW's there is an button on the left grip that I can poosh anytime I desire to enable/disable the ABS and my insurer could care less. 





 

[Kev m]

An airbag vest is nice to have. How many of y’all wear that? Full leg armor. A motorcycle with gyroscopic ability to keep you upright. Heck— Four wheels and a cage around you.

Less stuff for the computer to crap out on. This is my go-everywhere bike, and I’d prefer it lean toward the simpler R80 G/S way of living rather than the R1300 GS lifestyle.

I’m even considering going carbureted with this bike.

The first argument is ridiculous. If you really mean it stop riding motorcycles and become Amish.

The second point is a proven falsehood. More systems or components do NOT in an of themselves correlate to more problems.

Unfortunately both points tend to be religion to those who make them so logic rarely sways them.

@faffi your point borders on religion too. Over the years I once had the same attitude, an arrogance of superiority over the performance of the system. Though ABS systems aren't perfect and yes can lengthen stopping distances slightly in limited circumstances they only do so when most riders would have crashed. Maintaining stability and control as long as possible is still a win 99% of the time.

I don't mind owning a bike without abs but I've still not heard a good excuse to abandon an otherwise properly working system. A workaround for a too expensive repair being a different thing.

[Dirk_S]

The first argument is ridiculous. If you really mean it stop riding motorcycles and become Amish.

The second point is a proven falsehood. More systems or components do NOT in an of themselves correlate to more problems.

Unfortunately both points tend to be religion to those who make them so logic rarely sways them.

@faffi your point borders on religion too. Over the years I once had the same attitude, an arrogance of superiority over the performance of the system. Though ABS systems aren't perfect and yes can lengthen stopping distances slightly in limited circumstances they only do so when most riders would have crashed. Maintaining stability and control as long as possible is still a win 99% of the time.

 :cheesy:I don't mind owning a bike without abs but I've still not heard a good excuse to abandon an otherwise properly working system. A workaround for a too expensive repair being a different thing.

Seriously, I just want less things on the bike. A tad less weight. Less mess. Simpler. I’ve always been fond of my older bikes for not having to cram so much under the tank. If I need to get at something, I’d like less things in the way.

Keep in mind that I’m the one working on my bikes most of the time. I also don’t have a car anymore, and the longer I’m without one, the more I *don’t* miss all the tech. I always drove a manual, refused to use the rear camera or A/C. I desired manual windows, etc.

Now, I may be Pennsylvanian Dutch, but I’m not planning to go as far as Plain Dutch. I just want this bike to be more basic in its base state.

I’d really like for this post to avoid focusing on the WHY. Anyone is free to make another post if it bugs them enough.

[Kev m]

Seriously, I just want less things on the bike. A tad less weight. Less mess. Simpler. I’ve always been fond of my older bikes for not having to cram so much under the tank. If I need to get at something, I’d like less things in the way.

Keep in mind that I’m the one working on my bikes most of the time. I also don’t have a car anymore, and the longer I’m without one, the more I *don’t* miss all the tech. I always drove a manual, refused to use the rear camera or A/C. I desired manual windows, etc.

Now, I may be Pennsylvanian Dutch, but I’m not planning to go as far as Plain Dutch. I just want this bike to be more basic in its base state.

I’d really like for this post to avoid focusing on the WHY. Anyone is free to make another post if it bugs them enough.

Doesn't bug me at all, I just think you're fooling yourself. You could always ditch it if something ever failed right?

And for the record, I was just RESPONDING to the false logic.

But carry on. You do you etc.

[Perazzimx14]

The first argument is ridiculous. If you really mean it stop riding motorcycles and become Amish.

The second point is a proven falsehood. More systems or components do NOT in an of themselves correlate to more problems.

Unfortunately both points tend to  :thumb:be religion to those who make them so logic rarely sways them.

@faffi your point borders on religion too. Over the years I once had the same attitude, an arrogance of superiority over the performance of the system. Though ABS systems aren't perfect and yes can lengthen stopping distances slightly in limited circumstances they only do so when most riders would have crashed. Maintaining stability and control as long as possible is still a win 99% of the time.

I don't mind owning a bike without abs but I've still not heard a good excuse to abandon an otherwise properly working system. A workaround for a too expensive repair being a different thing.

I’d bet every year more people are injured by horses than people riding Moto Guzzi’s with air bag vests and disabled ABS 

[DoubleGuzzi]

The second point is a proven falsehood. More systems or components do NOT in an[d] of themselves correlate to more problems.

That is utterly illogical!
Each component/system has a mean time to failure/probability of failure, regardless of how reliable it actually is. Increasing the number of distinct parts must increase the likelihood/chance of a failure of a complete item, however small that may be.
 

[Kev m]

I’d bet every year more people are injured by horses than people riding Moto Guzzi’s with air bag vests and disabled ABS 

That's because far more people ride horses than moto Guzzis period.

Look I really don't give a shit if Dirk wants to ride naked Rollie style and try to break a land speed record with his Monza copy. Have at it. I'm not a safety Nazi.

My small voice is for the bike itself. I'm just addressing the text and prejudices against it that are based in mythology.

I don't care what gawd he wants to sing too. Just call it what it is.

And I'll chime in as a voice who suspects there's no risk to the ECU with what he wants to do as long as he goes about it in a way that isn't going to cause a short or the like.

I'm under the impression he can't just pull a fuse because he'll lose other functions like the dash.

But I'm pretty sure what he wants can be accomplished.

[PeteS]

Why not just ride older bikes without all the technology? I wouldn’t hesitate to get on my ‘76 LeMans and ride across country today. Only failures in nearly 50 years are one coil and a U Joint. I think a T3 or G5 would perform as well if not better than a modern V7, be easier to work on and have none of tech you want to get rid of.
My 850 LeMans is still faster than my V85TT if not quicker. Just the riding position doesn’t suit me as well today.

Pete

[Kev m]

That is utterly illogical!
Each component/system has a mean time to failure/probability of failure, regardless of how reliable it actually is. Increasing the number of distinct parts must increase the likelihood/chance of a failure of a complete item, however small that may be.

Science and technology doesn't answer to only logic.

What matters way more than the number of components is the quality of the components, the initial design of the system, and the conditions under which they are operated.

Case in point modern cars and trucks with tons more components on average go much further without repairs than predecessors.

EFI and electronic ignitions have much more components but tend to require much less service.

The average lifespan of cars and trucks are much higher today than they were when we were kids.

But people will look at outliers or say but it was easier to fix bla bla bla. Sure simplicity might have meant it was easier to take a given machine to 1/2M miles but that wasn't the norm and it wasn't without repairs and failures.

But history is full of things that were proven despite being contrary to oversimplified logic.

[Dirk_S]

That's because far more people ride horses than moto Guzzis period.

Look I really don't give a shit if Dirk wants to ride naked Rollie style and try to break a land speed record with his Monza copy. Have at it. I'm not a F'n safety Nazi.

My anti-ABS idea is for the V7 III dual-sport project, not the chubby Monza costumed V9. I’ve been riding the V7 III for 2 months now with the ABS disabled. Just wondering if I can go even longer with it disabled. Like, infinitely longer.

[blackcat]

You might want to sell the bike and just buy a T-3.

[n3303j]

Son-in-law riding down the gravel hill on his Concourse. Bike wouldn't let him apply full stopping abilities because of the less tractable surface. Thank goodness the road leveled before the T intersection.

Of course I can't do full "trail braking" with my T3 either

[Dirk_S]

You might want to sell the bike and just buy a T-3.

And have even more weight for off-pavement riding? Nah. What I have is enough. But also— I already have a 70s bike that takes up repair attention. I bought (saved, perhaps) this V7 from salvage auction and have already made it more what I desire.

[Perazzimx14]

My anti-ABS idea is for the V7 III dual-sport project, not the chubby Monza costumed V9. I’ve been riding the V7 III for 2 months now with the ABS disabled. Just wondering if I can go even longer with it disabled. Like, infinitely longer.

The answer is, yes!

[Kev m]

My anti-ABS idea is for the V7 III dual-sport project, not the chubby Monza costumed V9. I’ve been riding the V7 III for 2 months now with the ABS disabled. Just wondering if I can go even longer with it disabled. Like, infinitely longer.

I know that, doesn't change my example which was just meant to illustrate I wasn't arguing against doing what you WANT per se.

[Bulldog9]

Interesting discussion.....

my BLUF .0000002 cents?  The Juice is not worth the squeeze.....

Weight savings?  Come on.... Simpler? for the most part, the system is dead simple, bullet proof, and completely unobtrusive. Do you really want to run new brake lines?? Have to make them? all the work to remove the pump, wiring? sensors? etc? I'd leave it alone. If it gets wonky, then start DXing it.

I am not a huge fan of ABS on a bike, or wasn't until I had it on my Norge. The only time it came on is when I was testing to see if it actually worked, and how it felt when it did. Can't remember a time it came on otherwise. Same with the Stornello. But all my other bikes, the Griso, 1200 Sport, Convert, Breva 750, and beloved XS bikes were all without ABS, and I have never felt I needed it. At least for how I ride.

But you are a bit of a nutcase mate ...... So have at it! We will be watching from the side lines, especially the Carb conversion.... 

[DoubleGuzzi]

Dirk_S and myself are on the same page with his sentiments.

Weight savings?  Come on.... Simpler? for the most part, the system is dead simple, bullet proof, and completely unobtrusive. ..

This statement is such a contradiction! How can a chunky control box, with pump actuator and associated additional hard brake lines, ABS rings & sensors, be simple(r) and completely unobtrusive? Put together, there is a small though significant weight penalty too. Y'all know that what makes bikes exciting is power to weight ratio? Hang on, what am I saying? Wrong forum: Jeez.

On the two model years of BMW F650GS that the missus had, the ABS control box actually impeded the clutch and throttle cables smooth run. It looked as though ABS had been added as an afterthought. Admittedly, recent machines tend to have ABS designed in from the outset, though still consume 'real estate' that is prime on a motorcycle. They usually congest the limited under tank and underseat locations. There's those ugly pipes that run down the right-hand side of the V7 motor.
For a while, it was de facto/de rigueur to replace factory brake lines with stainless braided hose - so no 'argument' there.
KISS philosophy: you know it makes sense.

Don't get me started on the ludicrous addition of catalytic convertors on the ostensibly efficient ICE motors that are used on motorcycles. Their production cost in terms of pollution & materials, heat issues, disposal and environmental impact are a bureaucratic imposed folly. Let's mask/hide the issue rather than tackling at source i.e. improve the combustion instead.

/soapbox

[Perazzimx14]

Interesting discussion.....

my BLUF .0000002 cents?  The Juice is not worth the squeeze.....

Weight savings?  Come on.... Simpler? for the most part, the system is dead simple, bullet proof, and completely unobtrusive. Do you really want to run new brake lines?? Have to make them? all the work to remove the pump, wiring? sensors? etc? I'd leave it alone. If it gets wonky, then start DXing it.

I am not a huge fan of ABS on a bike, or wasn't until I had it on my Norge. The only time it came on is when I was testing to see if it actually worked, and how it felt when it did. Can't remember a time it came on otherwise. Same with the Stornello. But all my other bikes, the Griso, 1200 Sport, Convert, Breva 750, and beloved XS bikes were all without ABS, and I have never felt I needed it. At least for how I ride.

But you are a bit of a nutcase mate ...... So have at it! We will be watching from the side lines, especially the Carb conversion.... 

Its simpler than you might imagine at least on the R1200GS. All you need is a 8" section of 3/18 rigid brake pipe a bubble flare tool and two hours. If you choose to abandon the ABS pump in place knock 60 minutes off the process.



 

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Question for all of the "don't remove/disable it, you Luddite!" guys: Wouldn't the ABS go into "convulsions" when it doesn't see the signal(s) it expects from the tone rings on the (not original diameter) wheels? Wouldn't it need to be factory calibrated for the 21" front wheel in order work properly?

[PeteS]

My anti-ABS idea is for the V7 III dual-sport project, not the chubby Monza costumed V9. I’ve been riding the V7 III for 2 months now with the ABS disabled. Just wondering if I can go even longer with it disabled. Like, infinitely longer.

If the CPU was going to blow up it would have as soon as you hit the brakes the first time.

Pete

[Dirk_S]

If the CPU was going to blow up it would have as soon as you hit the brakes the first time.

Eh. The manuals state that the ABS system shuts off in the event of a malfunction and allows the brakes to operate conventionally. My concern is more long-term.