Re torque head cylinder V7I STONE 2014

[JulienFlry]

Hi all :)

I am about to re torque the cylinder head on the V7 I STONE 2014 because I have a small leak.
I am not really mechanically inclined so I will plan it carefully, however I managed to do the clearance so there is a learning curve :)

Manual show 4 nuts to tight in a crisscross pattern pre torque 25NM and then 42NM + one nut of the central stud bolt.
I think i need to remove the rockers arms, the "rockers shaft" I don't know how to call it, but i don't find anywhere the torque for the nuts in red on the picture.

Also i see the central stud bolt nut, i see the 2 short stud bolt nuts on each side of the spark plug but i feel stupid cause i don't see anywhere the long stud bolt nuts... they are hidden below the rockers arms or they are actually the same nuts that tight the rocker arms and the spacers all together ?

THanks a lot

[Dirk_S]

Gotta move your eyes down a lil’ farther—the bottom column nuts are recessed in the holes. All nuts circled in green are what you’ll be cracking open slightly and retorquing.





Don’t forget you’ll need to recheck the valve clearances again.

Here are the torque specs from the engine manual—I don’t think the standard service manual has the specs, because it doesn’t cover the engine parts extensively:



Top nut = 28 Nm
Rocker shaft nuts = 42 Nm
Bottom column nuts = 25 Nm

[JulienFlry]

Thank you Dirk !!
Indeed I am taking the specs on the V750 IE.
That's a good new I don't need to mess with the rockers.
Thanks a lot

[sign216]

Here's a link to a tip page on head torquing the first model of the V7.  It might have something for you.  Double-click on the photos to get the tip text.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sign216/albums/72157627672086548/ 

[jcctx]

Would not think a bike made that late would need such attention????

[Kev m]

Would not think a bike made that late would need such attention????

All Heron Head bikes (through the 2016 V7II) required a head retorque at the first service.

I wonder if that was done on this model.

But either way, over the years, people have reported minor leaks and a later retorque sometimes seems to have helped.

[JulienFlry]

I hope re torque will help.
Previous owner gave me the head cylinders gasket in case to fix the leak, but the dealer told me that if I take the head cylinder our to change the gasket, I also need to change the cylinders gaskets..that I don't do alone and that quote a bit high :)
Anyway, i am slowly starting to realize that guzzi needs a lot of re torquing everywhere as everything is getting loose with the vibrations. can't complain that's kind of cool :)

Edit, the oil was overfilled about 500ml but that don't seem to solve the issue now that I drained a bit.

[Vagrant]

If you do a search here you should find a lot of info on the re-torque. I know Guzzi Steve did something showing what he used to torque them to. Just make sure you break the bolts loose 1/4 turn first. It stopped 90% of the leak on my old one. That was good enough for me.

[jcctx]

All Heron Head bikes (through the 2016 V7II) required a head retorque at the first service.

I wonder if that was done on this model.

But either way, over the years, people have reported minor leaks and a later retorque sometimes seems to have helped.

Wonder what makes the Heron head different; perhaps original design flaws????

[Kev m]

Wonder what makes the Heron head different; perhaps original design flaws????

No, they just changed the gasket material when they changed the heads.

[Pescatore]

Quote from: JulienFlry on Today at 08:19:24 AM

I hope re torque will help.
.......
, but the dealer told me that if I take the head cylinder our to change the gasket, I also need to change the cylinders gaskets..

It depends. You might be able to separate the head from the cylinder without disturbing the bottom gasket.
What have you got to lose?

[JulienFlry]

I re torqued the left cylinder thank you for your help.
it didn't seems to be loose se we will see if it solve the leaking.
I Struggled to get the spacer straight while retorquing, is it ok if they are not straight ?

[JulienFlry]

hello guys, Little update, i did the re torque and valve clearance again.
The main leak seems to be solved :) but there is still oil on the fins.
After having a better look i saw the at the level of colums nuts gasket the engine block was cracked..
see the pictures, is that ok or it is really bad in your opinion ?
Also evrytime i open the valve cover i have oil in the 2 holes where are the nuts see yellow circle, is that normal somehow ?

Thank you, i am starting to be worried :)

[Dirk_S]

I Struggled to get the spacer straight while retorquing, is it ok if they are not straight ?

I don’t think straightness matters about those square washers, as long as they’re not digging in to the wall.

…The main leak seems to be solved :) but there is still oil on the fins.
After having a better look i saw the at the level of colums nuts gasket the engine block was cracked..
see the pictures, is that ok or it is really bad in your opinion ?
Also evrytime i open the valve cover i have oil in the 2 holes where are the nuts see yellow circle, is that normal somehow ?

Thank you, i am starting to be worried :)

Sorry, mate. I’m confused both by your description and pictures. The terminology you’re using is a little off. The engine block is where the crankshaft and camshaft are housed, ie. the big body of the motor. Shooting out from the engine block are 1) the cylinder, then 2) the cylinder head, then 3) the rocker cover/valve cover.

Not sure if you’re calling that gasket a ‘column nut gasket’, but there are only these gaskets, from top to bottom:

1) valve/rocker cover gasket—between cylinder head and valve cover
2) head gasket—between cylinder and cylinder head
3) base gasket—between block and cylinder

I personally can’t tell from your pics what’s going on. Are you saying the gasket is cracked? Or the cylinder? Or the actual engine block down below?

You have multiple yellow circles, so it’s a little difficult to understand what you’re pointing out. If you’re saying the column nuts (the two nuts securing the bottom cylinder head studs) have oil in them, no, that is not normal. Did you make sure to clean everything up after you finished the job? If not, maybe oil sloshed out while you were torquing the nuts? If you did make sure everything was clean, including at the gasket, then you may have a leak.

Give us some clarification and hopefully we can help further!

[JulienFlry]

Thank you for trying Dirk :) you re right, to be honest I am not familiar with the terms even in my native language.
Let me re phrase it, at the beginning I thought it was a leak from the head cylinder gasket.
The first time I open the valve cover, I noticed oil in the columns nut that are tightening the long stud bolt, part 5 and 3 in your drawing.
The oil was there before I touch anything, now I ve cleaned everything we will see, my theory is that the previous valve cover gasket was shot and that a small leak overtime when the bike was on the side stand filled out the "holes" where are recessed the nuts.

Regarding the crack, i said the engine block but i meant the head cylinder. Now it is more tricky to explains, but on the head cylinder there is the "housing" for the long stud bolt. This housing is cracked and if you zoom you can see through the O-RING below the column nut. (You can see this o-ring on the drawing you sent).

I think the oil is dripping is way down through this crack, but i can't say if this is bad or not.



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[Dirk_S]

Julien, now we’re onto some clarity!

A couple notes:

• No need to be TOO worried—these Guzzis are air-cooled, not liquid-cooled, so it’s not like you have to (legitimately) worry about cracked gaskets allowing coolant to get into the engine. With the air-cooled machines, you’ll have oil leaks and compression loss. Now, that said…
• What you call an o-ring is not such—that’s part of the gasket. That looks to me to simply be flashing (extra trim). I could be wrong. But if it is, and you (a) did the proper torqueing procedure, (b) the gasket itself is not cracked, and (c) the metal surface is smooth and flat, you should be good.
  
  (The only o-ring in the cylinders of the Guzzi small block V7 is down at the cylinder base at an oil passage (if I recall it butts against the little bit in the diagram between studs 1 and 2)
  

I would spray it all down with a cleaner, let it dry, then start her up and see how she looks for the next 10 miles.

[JulienFlry]

Thank you Dirk I apprciate your help :)
Hopefully you are right and nothing to be too concerned.
However I am no worried about this gasket, this can be replaced.
What i can see is not the head cylinder gasket I think , this is a bit lower.
I think this is not a O ring but the washer part gu95129180
I was worried to see a crack on the cylinder head itself but now I understand this crack don't seems to be critical.

Time to go for a ride to see if the leak come back :)

[Dirk_S]

Thank you Dirk I apprciate your help :)
Hopefully you are right and nothing to be too concerned.
However I am no worried about this gasket, this can be replaced.
What i can see is not the head cylinder gasket I think , this is a bit lower.
I think this is not a O ring but the washer part gu95129180
I was worried to see a crack on the cylinder head itself but now I understand this crack don't seems to be critical.

Time to go for a ride to see if the leak come back :)

Ah. I had to look at this a couple times. I think I understand your concern better…

That “o-ring” label is not the mating surface? You’re saying that what you called an o-ring is possibly the column nut washer, and the mating surface is a few millimeters down? If all that is correct, then yes, that would be no bueno. Bike’s not going to die, but the loss of structural integrity would cause extra vibration up top, leaks, loss of compression, and in time more cracks, etc. 

If you have spare gaskets, I would actually pull that rocker cover back off, undo all the nuts, pull the cylinder head, and inspect it thoroughly. But I’m not a mechanic—I just like taking things apart.

[JulienFlry]

Ehehe i like taking things apart too so maybe it will be a little project for winter :)
I can send you a picture tomorrow but I don’t think is too bad now that I had a deeper look.

The mating surface and the gasket is lower by at least 3 fins.

And on a positive note the leak is now gone at least for this cylinder.
Next week right cylinder

Thank you Dirk, now I feel like a true guzzi owner :)

[Pescatore]

I think I also get the pictures now.
Are you saying this dark line is a crack?
I agree with Dirk that it's only going to get worse.
How long has this been going on?  Maybe it won't change, but you either live with the leak or replace the head.

[JulienFlry]

Hello Pescatore ;)
No the black line is the washer.

The crack is around the washer, it is very clear for me now on the picture you have posted after watching it for few hours :D
I am agree to say it it's a small problem from a structural integrity point of view but in my understanding this crack is not leading anywhere inside the cylinder head, it more a housing for the nut.

Thank you guys, that was a very interesting thing for me, first time doing valve clearance and cracking loose the cylinder head, also this leak if fixed at least for now and you helped me save a lot of money from the dealer who wanted to change the cylinder head gasket and the cylinder gasket

[Pescatore]

Yes, I see it now.  As you've circled it in green.
Wow, my brain weren't seeing it until now.
Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

[Moparnut72]

I understand now what the issue is. If it were me I would try some Seal All on it or JB Weld. If some cleaning some oil leakage from time to time doesn't bother you I would just leave it alone. Seal All is cheap and has a good reputation for stopping leaks such as this. If you can't get it where you are I or someone would be happy to send you a tube.
kk

[JulienFlry]

Thank you Moparnut it's nice of you to offer, I thought about this, but I am afraid I would seal the column nut and the washer to the cylinder head and that would make the future cylinder head removal very tricky.

I ve cleaned carefully everything, changed the valve cover gasket and as for now there is not more leak, neither from the crack nor the cylinder head gasket so mission accomplished :)

thanks guys