V9 Bobber first ride impressions & questions

[Zimmermichaels1ea]

Well we picked up a '21 V9 Bobber for the growing Guzzi stable, it's primarily for my son to ride, however in the interest of science I have put a couple of hundred miles on it and I have some observations and questions.

First observations:  compared to my '23 V7 Special, the Bobber seems lighter and much easier to move around the garage   either sitting on the bike and duck-walking or just pushing it. The V9 seems much lower than the specs state.
The riding position is comfortable, footpegs seem maybe a tad forward from my V7 but are comfortable.  The handlebars are higher, I haven't gotten used to that but I can't say that they are uncomfortable. 
Everything about the engine, gearbox is great, just like the V7.

On the road the bike seems to really turn much easier than my V7, I feel that I go around corners on my favorite local roads much faster than on my V7.  There are times in corners where my V7 feels like I can't hold a line and the front tire wanders a bit.  It's probably my poor cornering skills, but there it is.
The V9 seems to corner very steady and fast, it's fun.

Here's where I need some of your sage advice:
When I have the V9 out on the Interstate or bigger highways 55MPH or better, the bike feels sort of wiggly or squirrely.
The tires feel planted, and I don't feel like the bike is in danger of losing traction or going into a wobble, it's like it just shimmies a bit.
Has anyone else experienced this?  Is it because of the fat tires?  The tires are new OEM tires with great tread.  I can't imagine it's because the bike is too light,  not with my fat a** on it!
It's just a weird feeling, and the only thing that I would count as a strike against the V9 Bobber at this point.

Thanks in advance for any advice on my highway riding experiences.

[Dirk_S]

I had the same feeling when I picked up my V9 and rode it 300 miles back home. I imagine the fat tire has something to do with it, but I also suspect the seating position (more forward than the V7) and handlebar positioning might be a factor as well. When I was riding it home, I had a big duffle behind me, shoving me forward. Try A) sitting farther back, and B) rotating the handlebar or installing normal height bar mounts…or a standard style handlebar. I was going to experiment with the setup, but jumped too quickly into my Monza replica build.

Could be worth checking the steering nut for proper torque as well.

[faffi]

My Roamer also is sensitive, but ne er feels uncertain.

[ScotPiza]

Zimmermichaels1ea,

I also have a 2023 V7 Special, but always preferred the looks of the V9 Bobber and have thought about trading. Do you have any other thoughts on the V7 vs V9 after riding both?
I wonder why it feels lighter and lower when the official specs show very little difference.

[Dirk_S]

My Roamer also is sensitive, but ne er feels uncertain.

And the front wheels of the Bobber and Roamer are quite different from one another.

Zimmermichaels1ea,

…I wonder why it feels lighter and lower when the official specs show very little difference.

Less fuel volume on the V9 (1.5 gallons = ~10 lb difference). Less mass for the tank. Seat is skinnier, allowing the rider’s legs to close in better and for a better reach to the ground.

[Lexiyntax]

When I have the V9 out on the Interstate or bigger highways 55MPH or better, the bike feels sort of wiggly or squirrely.
The tires feel planted, and I don't feel like the bike is in danger of losing traction or going into a wobble, it's like it just shimmies a bit.

I had this issue on my V9 Roamer with the stock tires, putting on a set of Dunlop Elite 4's cleared it up for me. I hated those stock tires, didn't like the handling, tire life, or smoothness.

[Zimmermichaels1ea]

ScotPiza:  This afternoon I rode both the V9 Bobber and my V7 850 Special back-to-back on the same route: through town, out on a rural highway, on the Interstate for 15 miles or so, then back through town and home.

The V7 rides much more upright, and the seat is super comfortable.  The bike is very stable at all highway speeds, but even with a Givi 140a windscreen my body takes a huge wind buffeting.
The V7 is an easy ride with no surprises, brakes are good, shifting is fine, stop and go traffic is no problem. 

The V9 sits lower somehow, your arms are up higher to reach the bars and the steering tree seems a bit taller than the V7.
Driving through traffic in town the powerband on the V9 seems to provide more torque as I navigated traffic.  The big tires and wide, straight bars make turning and weaving real easy.  In face, the V9 Bobber seems to turn better (easier?) than the V7.  It's extremely fun to ride around town.
The rear suspension is harsh, and the seat is a padded board, nowhere near as comfy as the V7. 

Here's the big complaint:  The V9 seems very "wiggly" on the highways or Interstate.  At speed, the V9 feels like I'm driving along grooved pavement causing the bike to squirm underneath me.  However this was happening on nice new asphalt, smooth as a billiard ball.  The effect is disconcerting.  I didn't feel like I was about to lose control, but the ride was not as confident as my V7.

I then returned home and checked the stem --OK.  I then checked the tire pressure--OK.  Then I added virtually the max of preload and made sure each shock was adjusted the same.
I then went out again on the same route and made sure to sit far back on the seat as Dirk suggested.  It made some difference in perceived wiggling.  But the bike still doesn't feel as controlled or solid as my V7.

And that's a shame, because I too love the looks of the Bobber, and I love the low speed riding, and the turning ease of the big tires.
All that being said, if I can't straighten out this high speed instability I'm selling the Bobber.  It's a very cool design, but if I can't ride it confidently on highways when needed it's just an expensive toy.  And I'm not confident letting my son ride it either.  I originally thought of this bike for him, but I'm very disappointed with it so far.  So much so, i went out an bought him a new Kawasaki Eliminator 500.  Same rugged looks, but that bike rides like a dream.
The Bobber not so much so.

Verdict as of tonight -- unless someone has a fix for the wiggling -- the Bobber is up for sale on Monday.

[Kev m]

Tires are 4 y/o and some didn't like them stock.

I'm not one of them, and I've never had a handling issue on a V9, but I've heard others complain about the stock tires on both them and the V7's

[Zimmermichaels1ea]

I would hate to invest even more money in the V9 at this point, but Kev m you have a point.

What are the preferred tires for a V9 Bobber?  Bias ply or radial?
Maybe I could try tires and see if that solves the problem.

[blu guzz]

Tires have made a difference on all of the bikes I have owned.  A good case in point was a 2007 Victory Kingpin Tour.  It came standard with Dunlap tires that were fairly hard.  But, the bike was totally stable.  The Dunlaps lasted for good mileage but when they were done, I replaced them with Metzler 880s, what I thought was the best rubber you could get at that time.  The stability was not the same, especially in corners.  Not dangerous, but not as planted.  I really wasn't happy with the 880s but it was a big investment, so I lived with it.  Not dangerous, just less relaxed.  I hate to say that on my current 1400 Eldo, it had the same Dunlaps on it as the Victory and they were hard and a little scary in the  rain, but the bike was absolutely stable.  My shop replaced them with the Metzler 888s and darned if I don't have the same feeling from these Metzlers as when I had the Victory.  Tires really make a difference and it might be a small enough investment to transform the bike since you like so much of the rest of the features.  Let us know what you decide.

[Dirk_S]

I’m curious if misaligned forks could cause this is issue as well?

[Zimmermichaels1ea]

I am going to check that.  I'm sure there's a tutorial on YouTube.

Dunlop D404F is what's on the bike now.

Looking on the web, I've found either:
Dunlop Elite 4
Or
Continental ContiTour
Or
Michelin Commander III Touring or Cruiser or Scorcher III
Or
Metzeler CruiseTec

Too many choices!!  I don't have any idea which tire might be better.

Any V9 Bobber owners have any opinions?

[bad Chad]

CruiseTec’s have worked out very well for me on my Roamer. 

I found the forks on my 17 v9 to be completely inconsistent on anything but smooth surfaces.  Putting Ikon shocks on greatly helped the ride comfort, but did next to nothing to settle the bike down on bad road. What did make a real improvement was to have the forks up graded. I sent the to RaceTec in California where the change the springs, oil and put something called gold valves in, not sure exactly how they work, but they do.  The rebuilt forks transformed the handling from unpredictable to decent.  It’s still far from great, but it’s what one should expect from this kind of bike. Relatively complient , predictable and amusing enough.   
My guess is, if you don’t do something about the shitty stock forks, your just going to be chasing the wind.

[tommy2cyl]

Not really understanding how wider tires are interpreted as contributing to more nimble handling?  Sounds to me like the bike has some baked in flaws.
I would enjoy the Kawasaki and move on from the V 9.   But then again, cruiser type bikes never had any appeal for me.

[Kev m]

Not really understanding how wider tires are interpreted as contributing to more nimble handling?  Sounds to me like the bike has some baked in flaws.
I would enjoy the Kawasaki and move on from the V 9.   But then again, cruiser type bikes never had any appeal for me.

Width of the tire isn't as important as profile from aspect ratio.

But handling isn't all in the tires, it's also affected by rake, trail, wheelbase, center of gravity, weight, etc etc etc.

Not to mention people are talking subjective impressions and not objective measurements.

[tommy2cyl]

Width of the tire isn't as important as profile from aspect ratio.

But handling isn't all in the tires, it's also affected by rake, trail, wheelbase, center of gravity, weight, etc etc etc.

Not to mention people are talking subjective impressions and not objective measurements.

Yup. All true.  Generally , narrower ties with lower aspect rations provide quicker steering and more agile handling.  Wider tires with higher aspect ratio's
offer greater straight line stability and a softer ride at the expense of sharper response.   Also, wider tires have more rotating mass which would slow
steering réponse.  So, the observation of quicker steering and less stability in a straight line with wider tires doesn't square with my experience.  Again,
all your points regarding chassis geometry and suspension certainly come into play as well.  If I couldn't't sort it easily with a tire change, I would move on.

[Kev m]

Yup. All true.  Generally , narrower ties with lower aspect rations provide quicker steering and more agile handling.  Wider tires with higher aspect ratio's
offer greater straight line stability and a softer ride at the expense of sharper response.   Also, wider tires have more rotating mass which would slow
steering réponse.  So, the observation of quicker steering and less stability in a straight line with wider tires doesn't square with my experience.  Again,
all your points regarding chassis geometry and suspension certainly come into play as well.  If I couldn't't sort it easily with a tire change, I would move on.

The tires on our Duc Monster look much wider than the tires on our V7's, though I've not done the math.

I wouldn't say the Monster is less nimble, though I might say at times it feels more stable. Sometimes I think the V7's fall over a bit suddenly and the Duc turns in more predictably.

PoTAYto, PoTAHto?

[Zimmermichaels1ea]

ScotPiza,

The V9 Bobber is smaller in stature than the V7 Special.  Here's a picture of the bikes in my garage with a broom stick laying across the seats to illustrate the lower overall stance of the V9 Bobber.  Very scientific!

[Zimmermichaels1ea]

I took a 100 mile ride today on the V9 trying to figure out what is going on with what I'm calling "wandering" for lack of a better term.  The ride was a mix of country roads both old and crappy and newly paved, and then city riding.

The longer I rode the more I got used to the bike wandering a bit in the lane, it's still disconcerting at times especially in wind gusts, but I didn't feel like the bike was in danger of going out of control.  It just seems to have trouble keeping a line in the lane at times -- not all the time -- but enough to be annoying.  In the curves the bike is great and feels solid on the road, holding a line wonderfully.  It also seems immune to tar snakes and long grooves that some of these country roads develop after farm machinery takes their toll.  These imperfections always upset my V7, but not the Bobber.  That was refreshing.
What bothered me more today was the absolutely atrocious rear shocks.  The bike feels like a hard tail at times, very jarring.

So, is this a mix of old, not so great OEM tires along with piss-poor rear shocks and perhaps inadequate fork springs/oil?

This is maddening because up to 50 MPH the bike is everything I want (minus the spine jarring shocks!) Now I'm debating how much money I want to throw at this problem, or if I should cut my losses and look elsewhere for a bobber style bike.  Honda Shadow Phantom anyone?

[Tom H]

I believe you stated it has D404's on it. Good tire, but can handle oddly. I asked about the D404 and found most were not "happy" with them . The staggered groove on the front can cause some front end wiggling at some speeds and roads. I have a tire on my HD that has the stagger like the D404 and for instance at city speeds and slowing for a light, with hands off the bars, the bars will wiggle. They didn't wiggle with a Metzler ME 888. Not a scary wiggle, but they move. Freeway grooves are no problem with that tire.

I had a Michelin Pilot something on my EVT on the front. Hit a certain design of grooves on a freeway and in the curves it felt like I was on ice. Handlebars kept wiggling in the curves. Figured out the grooves in the tire were likely hooking the freeway grooves. Changed tire to a different design, no more ice feeling.

Good luck with your decision on the bike!
Tom

[blu guzz]

Interesting to hear about the shocks.  When the V7 went to the 850 version, many aspects of the frame were changed.  One difference that was very obvious to me was the rear suspension.  I really did not like the suspension on the 750 or the earlier V9 versions and it felt to me as you described, like a hard tail.  My first thought on a test drive was "these have got to go".  When the V9 went to the 850(new) engine, I wonder, did they keep the old V9 frame and terrible suspension? Maybe another owner can chime in.

[Vagrant]

Simplest, cheapest and reversable possible fix is raise the forks 15MM.
Next quit messing with bargain basement tires and put on radials. Conti road attack 4, trail attack 3 or Bridgestone A41.
Then buy good shocks and fork springs for the riders weight assuming you will keep the bike.

[kingoffleece]

Exactly.
Almost every motorcycle will benefit from even inexpensive shock upgrades.  Expecting another OEM with a similarly priced motorcycle to be better out of the box is, IMO, foolish.  The manufactures simply don't spent the $$ there.

[faffi]

The shock springs are too soft for most. I upped the preload on the shocks until I was down to 20mm of sag. They still lack rebound damping, and rhe springs are still too soft, but now they rarely bottom and comfort is greatly enhanced.

[bad Chad]

The springs were to soft for you??

Your the first fellow I have heard make such a claim.  The springs on mine (17) were much too stiff, and I weigh 240lb!

[Dirk_S]

Similar feels about the stock suspension, but I’m around 150 lb.

I just took my V9 on the highway for the first time in a while. Since changing my seating position due to the cafe job, I notice that while I feel more confident riding it at speed, it still doesn’t want to pick a straight line.

The tires are Continental Milestones.

[Zimmermichaels1ea]

Well, after three long days of riding the V9, on city streets, country roads, and high-speed highways, I've come to the conclusion that I'm going to invest some more money into the Bobber.  Originally, this bike was going to be my
son's bike, but upon further review as they say, I decided to keep the V9 and sell my V7.  My son wasn't disappointed as he got a new Kawasaki Eliminator out of the deal!

So for the Bobber here's what I'm purchasing as recommended by Todd at GTM cycles: 
Matris V9 fork spring kit with adjusters
Matris V9 Standard shocks set to my weight etc.
New tires: this will depend on what is available from tire dealers.  Vagrant recommended radials -- most of the sites that sell tires don't say if they are radial so I'm confused about tires so far. 
Regardless, new tires will be ordered this week.

Thank you all for the benefit of your experience!  I really appreciate it.

[faffi]

The springs were to soft for you??

Your the first fellow I have heard make such a claim.  The springs on mine (17) were much too stiff, and I weigh 240lb!

What static sag do you have with the bike alone, as well as with you sitting normally? Because they feel stiff, I agree, but that due to them bottoming out. At least on mine. I am 190 lb net and carry 20 lb of riding gear. Same case with my son's V7 from 2010 - rear felt harsh, we upped the preload and it became much smoothere and comfortable. He is around my weight.

[bad Chad]

Are we talking about shock or fork springs?

[Moparnut72]

Can't blame the manufacturer, they are trying to satisfy a wide range rider weights. No sense in spending a lot of money on suspension. I am 160 lbs soaking wet so just about every bike with stock suspension has been very stiff and rough riding. My V7 as well as my Mandello ride pretty rough  i went to the Nevada State Campout this weekend. I rode my V7 with a good load of camping gear, it rode quite well with the extra weight. I am considering trading both of them for a V7 850.
kk