Are V85 motors "choppy"?

[toomanybikes]

My '22 V85 runs fine, now with roughly 5500 miles. Starts, idles, and accelerates as it should.

Lately it feels "choppy" in the mid-range RPMs, but (honestly) I can't decide if I'm just noticing it after picking up '10 BMW R1200RT whose engine feels smoother (i.e. the Guzzi engine hasn't changed, I just notice it more) or if it's in need of maintenance (check valve clearances, balance throttle bodies).

I also have a '16 Guzzi Audace, whose engine also feels smoother than the V85.

Any input from the Guzzi experts?

[Kev m]

There's nothing to balance, there's only one throttle body.

Honestly this sort of thing is hard enough to discuss even in person if you both ride the same bike back to back and compare the "perceptions". Over the Internet it's worse.

Two different people are going to choose different shift points, different amounts of throttle, hell even clutch use might vary.

Plus some people measure with a yardstick and some a micrometer.

I know the unintended consequences of emissions standards often leave a spot on the map that is less than ideal. Those spots might be bedposted by areas of the map that are fine.

If you constantly linger in that area you may perceive something that a person who throttles through that in open loop can't or won't feel.

Sure there can also be variances between two given bikes of the same model. Valve adjustment, fuel quality, overall condition from maintenance or lack thereof, or even a minor fault or defect can introduce variables.

All of this is to say I can't think of a bike I've owned in the last few decades where someone else didn't complain about a flat spot, stumble, lean condition etc and I generally always find a way to just plain operate the thing and not notice or care.

Maybe I'm just a blunt instrument. Maybe I'm just adjusting the throttle and rpm range or the expectation.

Good luck with your search for the "truth".

[toomanybikes]

There's nothing to balance, there's only one throttle body.

Honestly this sort of thing is hard enough to discuss even in person if you both ride the same bike back to back and compare the "perceptions". Over the Internet it's worse.

Two different people are going to choose different shift points, different amounts of throttle, hell even clutch use might vary.

Plus some people measure with a yardstick and some a micrometer.

I know the unintended consequences of emissions standards often leave a spot on the map that is less than ideal. Those spots might be bedposted by areas of the map that are fine.

If you constantly linger in that area you may perceive something that a person who throttles through that in open loop can't or won't feel.

Sure there can also be variances between two given bikes of the same model. Valve adjustment, fuel quality, overall condition from maintenance or lack thereof, or even a minor fault or defect can introduce variables.

All of this is to say I can't think of a bike I've owned in the last few decades where someone else didn't complain about a flat spot, stumble, lean condition etc and I generally always find a way to just plain operate the thing and not notice or care.

Maybe I'm just a blunt instrument. Maybe I'm just adjusting the throttle and rpm range or the expectation.

Good luck with your search for the "truth".

All fair points. With the relative scarcity of Guzzis in the wild, I though the forum might have a broader set of input. Some engines are super smooth (Honda flat6 Goldwing) others have more engine vibration (single cyl thumpers). I was just trying to compare the v-twin V85 with similar twins (boxers or V's).

I know of one other V85 in my area, so I'll see if he's around this weekend for a comparison.

Throttle response does not have any dead spots, it just feels choppier when accelerating through the midrange.

[Kev m]

All fair points. With the relative scarcity of Guzzis in the wild, I though the forum might have a broader set of input. Some engines are super smooth (Honda flat6 Goldwing) others have more engine vibration (single cyl thumpers). I was just trying to compare the v-twin V85 with similar twins (boxers or V's).

I know of one other V85 in my area, so I'll see if he's around this weekend for a comparison.

Throttle response does not have any dead spots, it just feels choppier when accelerating through the midrange.

I'm not poo pooing your conversation or quest to answer the question. I'm just suggesting that so much of it is subjective you may not get anything more than confirmation bias or denial, but I suspect you'll get a myriad of answers.

Hell add another variable, the use of language.

Choppiness vs smoothness.

I wouldn't think their use here was as true antonyms.

I think of smoothness as the opposite the of the scale from vibration as used in your example above.

I think of choppiness as a way of describing non-linear power curve regardless of vibration or smoothness. I think of it as a flat spot or dip in power at a certain rpm

Both are functions of engine design and mapping, but both will vary with perception and usage.

I think it largely comes down to rpm.

Where do you linger? From where do you accelerate?

On smallblocks (hell on a lot of bikes I've owned), I'll pop down at least one gear before any real acceleration.

That alone might explain why I feel fewer flat spots, because I get the rpm up before I try to accelerate, thereby avoiding that epa testing range and completely avoiding closed-loop EFI operation.

[toomanybikes]

I think of smoothness as the opposite the of the scale from vibration as used in your example above.

I think of choppiness as a way of describing non-linear power curve regardless of vibration or smoothness. I think of it as a flat spot or dip in power at a certain rpm

Both are functions of engine design and mapping, but both will vary with perception and usage.

In my case, perhaps "vibration" of the V85 would have been a better word choice than "choppy"

[SIR REAL ED]

There's nothing to balance, there's only one throttle body.

Honestly this sort of thing is hard enough to discuss even in person if you both ride the same bike back to back and compare the "perceptions". Over the Internet it's worse.

Two different people are going to choose different shift points, different amounts of throttle, hell even clutch use might vary.

Plus some people measure with a yardstick and some a micrometer.

I know the unintended consequences of emissions standards often leave a spot on the map that is less than ideal. Those spots might be bedposted by areas of the map that are fine.

If you constantly linger in that area you may perceive something that a person who throttles through that in open loop can't or won't feel.

Sure there can also be variances between two given bikes of the same model. Valve adjustment, fuel quality, overall condition from maintenance or lack thereof, or even a minor fault or defect can introduce variables.

All of this is to say I can't think of a bike I've owned in the last few decades where someone else didn't complain about a flat spot, stumble, lean condition etc and I generally always find a way to just plain operate the thing and not notice or care.

Maybe I'm just a blunt instrument. Maybe I'm just adjusting the throttle and rpm range or the expectation.

Good luck with your search for the "truth".

Well said.  Perception can never be separated from what is observed/measured/experienced.

[rocker59]

Define "Choppy".  I've never heard that word used in a motorcycle context.

[Dirk_S]

If you’re talking about vibration, are you saying this is more about how the chassis/bike feels, and NOT the throttle response (my initial assumption)? Like, at a certain RPM, the bike doesn’t feel smooth overall? If that’s the case, two thoughts:

• A BMW boxer will normally feel smoother than a Guzzi, if for no other reason than the near-perfect balance of the piston throw of a boxer (both pistons “punch” outward at the same time);
• Perhaps your current happy spot for the motor is a tad low, and riding in the next gear down would allow the motor to run more smoothly (provided it’s still hanging around the motor’s safe zone of revs)

[PeteS]

If the question was about vibration, then its not uncommon for vibration to change of the years. Usually due to uneven cylinder firing. Might be a bad injector, fouled plug, ignition issue or unbalanced throttle bodies. If it was smoother at one time you should be able to restore it.

Pete

[kingoffleece]

Guess I'm more the blunt instrument kev alludes to.  Other than an outright stall seems easy enough to always adapt to any bike.
Descriptions over the world wide web are almost impossible to properly access when it comes to "feel".
Back to back with a few other V85 motorcycles will prove most insightful.  In lieu of that, check all the obvious places, and valves.

[Vagrant]

Did you switch from Road to Sport? They have a fairly lightweight flywheel I don’t know about the BMW. It might just be getting token in.

[Tusayan]

The OP’s issue sounds to me based on my V85TT experience to be mainly a reaction to sensitive throttle control plus a light flywheel.  Also, it needs to be revved to go, low end torque is limited so power increases markedly with RPM.  It makes good lower for a 2V/cyl pushrod air-cooled 850, but it is not a relaxed feeling engine. 

[toomanybikes]

Thanks all for the input.

I'll ride again over the next few days and see if he "choppiness" (a.k.a vibration) is less at higher rpms. I'd be surprised if it's dirty injectors since I ride the bike regularly and only use non-ethanol high-octane gas. None the less, I'll run some Berryman's B-12 through the system.

I'll look at the valve clearances over the winter as well.

As I said before, it's not a show stopper, just seems not as smooth as my R1200RT and Audace.