Talk me out of it

[faffi]

Lately, I have had a desire for a BMW K100RS or RT. Which is strange, because I am no fan of inline fours. For one reason only; how they sound. Well, there is the often annoying buzzy vibrations as well that affect many I4s. But the BMW unit is less "foury" than most, so I can live with the sound. And some are smooth, others are buzzy. Product tolerances. The flexibility of a four is far better than that of a twin, which functionally is good, and the primary reason for me to consider one.

Other good things about the K100 versions; light weight for a fully faired motorcycle with shaft final drive, reliable, generally simple to maintain, good fairing protection, fairly roomy riding position, decent cornering clearance. The only similar bike I can think of that is lighter is the Honda Deauville. The Norge is heavier and, I fear, lacking cornering clearance, but still not out of the picture.

So, are there other alternatives out there? I can live with chain drive, but I do not want a sport tourer in the modern sense like the Yamaha Tracer GT, not a heavy lump like a Pan European.

[Frulk]

2013-2017 Honda CB1100’s. Affordable. Beyond reliable. Easily accessorized. Buzzing in the bars can be mitigated a number of ways.

Attached pictures take a minute to load.

[blackcat]

The only four I've ever considered is a Ducati Panigale. I've ridden a couple of K bikes and just thought they were boring compared to a twin and the Panigale sounds like a hyper twin but there is the cost, even in the used column.  IMO I'd buy a late model Mandelo S but technically that falls into the Sport Touring category but so does the Norge.

[n3303j]

1987 K100RS




Hot as hell in the summer especially when fans kick in during traffic.
Water and oil pump share a common shaft and as it wears coolant gets in oil.
Taller saddle doesn't accommodate 30" inseam.
Stopping on uphill requires thought to avoid rolling backward and falling down.
Smokes at start when on sidestand.
Nobody waves at you on this oddity (not even BMW).

That's all I got.

Loved the smooth as silk engine and low noise level.
Loved the German precision.
Loved the tubeless tires and single side swingarm.
Loved that you could get all the way into flywheel while on centerstand.
Loved that valves stayed in adjustment for a long time.
Loved digital gear indicator.
Loved self canceling turn signals.
Loved the strong & positive brakes.

Hope that helps talk you out of the purchase. 

[PeteS]

A friend and I traded bikes at the Parry Sound Sportbike rally some years ago. Me on my 850LM and he and his K100RS. RS had a bit more power than my Lemans but handling was much slower and heavier. Found it to be pretty boring overall and would never consider buying one. Same for a K75. Might be reliable and maybe comfortable touring bikes but loose too many points as a sport bike.

Pete

[Motormike]

The sound of a Flying Brick running through the gears has been aptly described as the sound of ripping cloth.  Look for a pre 2004 K1200RS.  The engine is rubber mounted and smooth as glass.  I loved the K1200 series enough to own two of them in the past.  Both were the GT models.  Smooth, cruise control, electric windshield, shaft drive.  The seating position is a bit to sporting for some but didn't bother me.  I reluctantly decided to sell my last one, as they are a bit heavy, and I was tired of dealing with the overly complex (and failure prone) servo-abs bleeding every two years. Hence my recommendation to look for one that pre-dates that particular "improvement."  130 hp at the crank, so plenty of steam, although a heavy flywheel makes it slow to rev compared to any Japanese bike.  I could ride mine all day, something I've never been able to say about any other 4-cylinder bike I've owned. 

[PJPR01]

I see that you are "stuck" on this idea that the Norge has clearance issues.  It does not.  There's no problem with clearance per se.  There is indeed a soft rear spring that is easily remedied by either replacing the spring alone with a Hyperpro, or buying a full rear unit like a Wilbers.  Couple that with some slightly stiffer Hyperpro front springs and 15 wt oil and you have a Sport tourer that is outstanding at canyon carving, tight curvers or sweepers and all day touring (with an upgraded seat...the stock one will kill your ass in an hour!)

I would ride 2 up on my Norge and on the stock spring I would scrape when really leaned over, but nothing egregious.  If you're riding single, you really don't even need to replace the rear, but to be sure, it's far more sportier and tight with upgraded suspension, but I never worried at all about clearance issues even with the stock suspension setup. 

Definitely need to get this idea out of your head that the Norge has clearance issues...

As far as inline BMW 4's...I see that some versions are smooth and others are indeed buzzy.  I had a BMW K1100 LT for several years and could never find the source of the buzzing at 70 mph...above and below that is was indeed smooth as silk.  About a 100 lbs heavier than the Norge however.

[faffi]

2013-2017 Honda CB1100’s. Affordable. Beyond reliable. Easily accessorized. Buzzing in the bars can be mitigated a number of ways.

Attached pictures take a minute to load.

I love the CB1100, but I need something with weather and chill protection - a 90F degree day here does not happen every year, and most places in Norway never. We call a night that does not drop below 68F tropical. Does not happen every year, either. Past week as seen temps between 20 and 25F. So more often than not, rides are chilly here. I do not like fairings in general, not for looks and they complicate maintenance. But they sure make chilly days easier on old limbs.

[faffi]

The sound of a Flying Brick running through the gears has been aptly described as the sound of ripping cloth.  Look for a pre 2004 K1200RS.  The engine is rubber mounted and smooth as glass.  I loved the K1200 series enough to own two of them in the past.  Both were the GT models.  Smooth, cruise control, electric windshield, shaft drive.  The seating position is a bit to sporting for some but didn't bother me.  I reluctantly decided to sell my last one, as they are a bit heavy, and I was tired of dealing with the overly complex (and failure prone) servo-abs bleeding every two years. Hence my recommendation to look for one that pre-dates that particular "improvement."  130 hp at the crank, so plenty of steam, although a heavy flywheel makes it slow to rev compared to any Japanese bike.  I could ride mine all day, something I've never been able to say about any other 4-cylinder bike I've owned. 

The K1200RS flying brick is 34 kg / 75 lbs heavier than the already heavier than I'd prefer K100RS. It also is too fast in that I would constantly be tempted to - and actually do - ride beyond what the law allows*, whereas the old K100 is "lame" enough that one does not use all the power just for the fun of it. And the 1200 is rather cumbersome on the hairpin littered roads I love to travel.

*Doing 72 in a 50 zone will cost me USD 1100 plus 3 months of walking. Doing 100 in a 50 zone will cost ten times as much and have me walking for more than 2 years.

[faffi]

If you are looking at RT's you'll be looking at boxers and not I-4's, which is not a bad thing IMO as the boxer has a lot of benefits. I'm not sure what you mean by the I-4 having flexibility. My experience is the boxer is just as at home in the low speeds stuff as it is gliding down the road in triple digits or anything in between.

There was a K100RT, the LT was primarily made for the US market. By flexibility I mean the ability to accelerate fairly effortlessly from idle speed in top gear. Most of the I-4s I have owned would take full throttle from 1000 rpm in top gear and just accelerate, no vibrations, no protests, no pinging. I do not condone it - I was younger and more ignorant back then - but I cannot think of any twins similarly tuned doing the same thing. Basically, you can be lazy riding a four-cylinder, which is relaxing, but also rev it if you want some excitement.

[Motormike]

*Doing 72 in a 50 zone will cost me USD 1100 plus 3 months of walking. Doing 100 in a 50 zone will cost ten times as much and have me walking for more than 2 years.

With draconian speeding fines like that, perhaps a nice Vespa, then? 

[faffi]

I see that you are "stuck" on this idea that the Norge has clearance issues.  It does not.  There's no problem with clearance per se.  There is indeed a soft rear spring that is easily remedied by either replacing the spring alone with a Hyperpro, or buying a full rear unit like a Wilbers.  Couple that with some slightly stiffer Hyperpro front springs and 15 wt oil and you have a Sport tourer that is outstanding at canyon carving, tight curvers or sweepers and all day touring (with an upgraded seat...the stock one will kill your ass in an hour!)

I would ride 2 up on my Norge and on the stock spring I would scrape when really leaned over, but nothing egregious.  If you're riding single, you really don't even need to replace the rear, but to be sure, it's far more sportier and tight with upgraded suspension, but I never worried at all about clearance issues even with the stock suspension setup. 

Definitely need to get this idea out of your head that the Norge has clearance issues...

As far as inline BMW 4's...I see that some versions are smooth and others are indeed buzzy.  I had a BMW K1100 LT for several years and could never find the source of the buzzing at 70 mph...above and below that is was indeed smooth as silk.  About a 100 lbs heavier than the Norge however.

I have not ridden a Norge, but my brother have owned two R1200RTs, and both would scrape pegs regularly, meaning cornering clearance was adequate, but not excellent. The few tests I have read have described the cornering clearance of the Beemer R1200RT to be significantly better than that of the Norge. But you are right in that I should not condemn the Norge in this regard until I have ridden one.

The Norge wet weight is the same 617 lbs as that of the K1100RS and 22 lbs less than the K1100LT on an certified scale.

[PJPR01]

I have not ridden a Norge, but my brother have owned two R1200RTs, and both would scrape pegs regularly, meaning cornering clearance was adequate, but not excellent. The few tests I have read have described the cornering clearance of the Beemer R1200RT to be significantly better than that of the Norge. But you are right in that I should not condemn the Norge in this regard until I have ridden one.

The Norge wet weight is the same 617 lbs as that of the K1100RS and 22 lbs less than the K1100LT on an certified scale.

I don't know what certified scale is being used, but the Norge dry weight around 550 lbs, let's add 5 gallons at approx 40 lbs more for fuel, nowhere close to the BMW which was in the 640 range, ok 50 lbs less, not 100 as I estimated above.    I've rented RT's as well in the past and had no trouble leaning it over w/o scraping...but I have no lean angle measurement to compare against the Norge.  Either way, as mentioned above, scraping is very easily resolved with an after market suspension setup...given the speed limits you have to deal with, I don't think you're going to be dealing with excessive lean angles either.   

[faffi]

With draconian speeding fines like that, perhaps a nice Vespa, then? 

It is very rare that you will find a patrol out on the winding backroads where few or no people live, but I have been very lucky. I have only been fined twice, both times low fines for minor speeding; once in 1986 and once in 1992. If I think about all the times I would have gone to jail for speed if caught... 

I like roads like this. Average slope is 11%.  And I have never seen police on this or similar roads. I filmed this 15 years ago.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nU6AtJ6GHaM

This is my favorite road to ride briskly. I have never filmed it myself, but found one doing a slow sightseeing trip on a K1600
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5P2yHkpsxz4

Note: Speedos read in KPH. The first number visible on my old Triumph is 120 kph = 75 mph. The Beemer speedo reads in clear numbers.

[Huzo]

The more anyone tries to talk you out of it, the more you”ll want it.
 You’ll ignore the facts and airbrush away the reality that is obvious, the bike you want is brutal, ugly, soulless, has all the charm of a wooden spoon and worst of all…?
It’s…GERMAN !
So just buy it, farkle it, look at it, ride it 2 or 3 times and then write us a nice post about how your Beemer brought you back to Guzzi.

The Beemer is Angela Merkel
The Guzzi is Isabella Rossellini
You won’t admit it, but you will miss the imperfection of the Italian affair. The BMW is a good tool for doing a “job”…
So is a toilet seat…

[faffi]

I don't know what certified scale is being used, but the Norge weight around 550 lbs, nowhere close to 617!   

The original Norge from 2006, with a full tank, was 275 kg / 606 lbs. The 2011 version was 11 lbs heavier. 550 lbs is probably about the correct dry weight, provided you removed every drop of fluid in the bike, but I always use wet weight for myself, which may be confusing. Sorry if that is the case here. BMW used to subtract around 20-30 lbs from the actual wet weight of their bikes. For instance, the old R100RS was actually 507 lbs wet, not the 474 claimed by the factory.

[dguzzi]

 I nearly bought a K, the one with the checkered flag in the fairing paint.  Cool !

[faffi]

The more anyone tries to talk you out of it, the more you”ll want it.
 You’ll ignore the facts and airbrush away the reality that is obvious, the bike you want is brutal, ugly, soulless, has all the charm of a wooden spoon and worst of all…?
It’s…GERMAN !
So just buy it, farkle it, look at it, ride it 2 or 3 times and then write us a nice post about how your Beemer brought you back to Guzzi.

The Beemer is Angela Merkel
The Guzzi is Isabella Rossellini
You won’t admit it, but you will miss the imperfection of the Italian affair. The BMW is a good tool for doing a “job”…
So is a toilet seat…

Hey, I will not argue with anything of what you say, other than perhaps the Norqe being closer to BMW than any other Guzzi. However, those reasons listed is exactly why I consider it. Many moons ago, I owned a 1997 Triumph 900 Sprint, which was not unlike the BMW original K-bikes. It was very functional and competent, but also an appliance. I never turned to take a final glance at it after a ride, but as long as I sat behind the controls it was great. Not perfect in any way, nor did it do anything particularly well, but also nothing poorly. I expect a K100 to be similar. But on a cold and blustery day, it may be just the thing I need. Not unlike the Deauville. Or a Pan European.

[wirespokes]

The R100RS and RT weights I'd always seen were right around 525 pounds.

Being able to accelerate in top gear from idle without a fuss requires lots of horsepower or an electric motorcycle - which seems right up your alley.

The K100 is a heater, so that's a plus for you. The K100RS I rode in Los Angeles in the summer darn near gave me heat stroke. But they're top heavy - at least compared to the airheads and tontis I ride.

Huzo - you have such a way with the language. :-)

[faffi]

I love the way electric cars operate, being able to do everything with just one pedal - stopping as well as accelerating. The charging is still a PITA, though, with not enough range and long time required to charge up relatively speaking compared to fuel. My Skoda Octavia with a 150hp turbo petrol engine will deliver 50 mpg on long drives and safely go 600 miles on a tank, and it only takes a couple of minutes to "charge it" for another 600 miles.

[Huzo]

The R100RS and RT weights I'd always seen were right around 525 pounds.

Being able to accelerate in top gear from idle without a fuss requires lots of horsepower

Well that’s not strictly correct, power is torque x rpm.
So low rpm requires high torque to get the power figure.
100 Nm x 1000 rpm is the same power as 50 Nm x 2,000 rpm.
What you need to accelerate from idle in top gear is a motor that provides a goodly proportion of its peak torque at that lower rpm figure.
A heavier flywheel helps here, because it stores the energy by virtue of its rotational mass and dishes it out evenly.

But as usual I digress…
We are trying to talk our hero OUT of buying the Beemer. It’s a pig ignorant, heartless, arrogant truck on two wheels that is only good for carrying your groceries to the car and folding your washing.
It’s the sort of acquaintance that you have to get drunk to become enamoured with, but regrettably..?

You still have to wake up in the morning and it really does hurt if you try to gnaw your own arm off…

Then there’s the undeniable fact that you’ll need to put a bag over your head when you remove your helmet in public, so your mates won’t know it’s you with her.

I think the great Ace Ventura put it best when he said…

“You might be enjoying yourself….
But whatever you do, DON’T look down…”

How’m I doing..?

[PJPR01]

Well, the last paragraph about enjoying electric cars is quite revealing then - it makes sense now if you're looking for the least amount of interaction  with a machine and minimal driver input.  If that's appealing I can see why a Guzzi may not be in the cards for you, or at least an older Guzzi.  That's OK too. 

930 Porsche Turbo vs. Tesla S - I know which one would produce the most fun driving and the most driver interaction even if you have to maintain it mechanically much more.

 

It's a pity that a country as beautiful as Norway with unlimited gas reserves would be so restrictive on speed limits, but they are also I suppose one of if not the leading proponent of electric cars/buses etc.   

[Tkelly]

Why are you so concerned about weight?Arent you the guy that can lift large weights?Ifyou can onlylegally ride 75mph you will never notice the weights.I can easily handle a Norge and I’m 80.

[DC950]

talk you out of it?  OK.  Buy a K75 instead like I did last year.

A really, really fine machine.  It was too old man for me when I was 27.  Not sure what happened since then






5000 sweet miles in 14 months.

Yes, it is hot when it's hot but great when it's cool.

When getting one, there are really 2 choices:  fully sorted and a project.  In between are few and far between.  The projects are rarely that much of a project.  The big need is a new fuel pump, crankcase breather tube, other rubber bits, and occasionally bad splines.  They really are a bike that "ran when parked" means you can get it running again pretty easily and cheaply.

[Motormike]

It is very rare that you will find a patrol out on the winding backroads where few or no people live, but I have been very lucky. I have only been fined twice, both times low fines for minor speeding; once in 1986 and once in 1992. If I think about all the times I would have gone to jail for speed if caught...  .

Patrol cars?  We don't need no stinkin Patrol Cars! Euro speed cameras are relentless! When I got home from my one-week motorcycle rental in Germany and Switzerland, I had two speeding tickets arrive in the mail almost before I could unpack!  And I was REALLY trying to adhere to the constantly changing speed limits encountered the many small villages we rode through.  Fortunately, they were relatively small fines, 50 euros each, give or take. 

[Tom H]

Maybe this old story will help??? Been posted a few times. Maybe posted by Wirespokes:

BMWs are like the Hot German Scientist chick. Glasses, prim, mannered, efficient. She can solve quadratic equations while kicking your ass with kung-fu moves. You have to approach her on her terms and then she will bring you ecstasy in the most efficient manner possible using techniques she learned from an ancient Kama Sutra she discovered on a sabbatical in India.

Guzzis on the other hand, are the art school wild child. long, wind-tossed hair and mischievous winks. She will redecorate your house into a turkish harem while you are away on a business trip and greet you with absinthe tainted kisses. You will go out for pizza with her and wind up somewhere in the Mojave, tequila drunk and shooting cactus with a stolen pistol.

Tom

[Tom H]

Huzo, Reply 21 had me LMAO!!!!!!!!!

That is also known as coyote ugly. Gnaw your arm off before waking the fine filly you took home.

Tom

[tommy2cyl]

What am I missing here?  I just confirmed that your national  MAXIMUM speed limit is 50 mph.  Why would you want to own  ANY bike that is big, heavy,
and powerful?  Seems to me that 600 cc or less with good wind protection would be a helluva lot more enjoyable on your twisty roads than the bikes that
are mentioned in this thread.  Of course, it you tour outside your country that is another discussion, but within the confines of your border and the
fine structure in place of exceeding 50 mph, I can't imagine why you would want to frustrate yourself with a big powerful machine you can't use.
 

[Travlr]

I liked my SP1000

[Huzo]

Or he'll buy it, ride it, enjoy it and it will lead him down another path.

He asked us to talk him out of it.
Really, they are just about the ugliest thing ever foisted onto the public, being seen on a BMW is is an admission that you’ll settle for bland mediocrity, but a flying brick is just beyond any semblance of acceptability.
If he does go ahead and relieve some poor soul of the horrible contraption, it’ll be fun watching the journey and witnessing what his reasons are for ultimately ditching it…
I hope he comes to his senses and leaves the thing to quietly rot like the Bismarck.