Overcharging???

[Vecchio Lupo]

UPDATE**********PROBLEM SOLVED***********SEE LAST POST********THANK YOU ALL

Boys, Ive got a 90 Cal III, good piece of kit. the dash mounted volt meter (insert Veglia Electronnica joke here:) shows under 12v at idle but once moving runs up to 13-14v steady. I checked voltage at idle and just above with meter and was healthy 12.8 up to 13.5 ish, so great.

I installed a digital constant monitoring guage (made in China so you know it's good) and saw where once off idle and cruising it read 16v. only reading 13 at idle.

I think 16v is too much...I suspect the 35 year old Diode board and regulator/regulator.

opinions???????

I have a NIB thunder child diode board leftover from a Boxer project.  and of course R/Rs are cheap .

[wirespokes]

Sixteen volts would fry the battery from my understanding, so I'd tend to believe the stock voltmeter. Check voltage with a trustworthy volt meter.

I get the feeling the alternator is behaving normally.

Just guessing this is the Bosch alternator, not the Ducati permanent magnet type?

[Dirk_S]

I can’t remember if you get a more accurate reading off the battery, or…
I’m using one of those cheap, bar-mounted USB accessory ports on my BMW R80/7 that also shows voltage because I still don’t fully trust that bike’s old, worn charging system. Connected directly to the battery, it’s showing a proper max delivery of 14.4V, but now you’re making me wonder if I can even trust that number.

[Vecchio Lupo]

yes Sir, 1990 would be Bosch.    I'll put another couple meters on it...yes 16v worried me, I cant believe the Chinese would sell me cheap junk.  If it aint broke, dont fix it.

[Vecchio Lupo]

yes Sir, 1990 would be Bosch.    I'll put another couple meters on it...yes 16v worried me, I cant believe the Chinese would sell me cheap junk.  If it aint broke, dont fix it.

Thats what Im using, a Chinese bar mounted usb charger voltage gauge

[Vecchio Lupo]

Fellas...I just hooked up another meter to the battery, It was in perfect sync with the bar mounted gauge .   As voltage climbed I saw wisps of smoke from the main power wire, from battery to Ducati Energia Regulator rectifier. Yes, Both meters climbed to 16v together.  It appears I must do some testing....Im so dumb, I dont know why I thought this bike had a diode board....now Im on a different road

[Vecchio Lupo]

this bike has been plagued with POS (Previous Owner Syndrome) ...a lot of stuff has not been right.  I have a Ducati Energia RR but I suspect I have Saprisa alternator.   I will open her up tomorrow and start looking for discrepancies.....s tay tuned.

I couldn't wait to check......my Stator is stamped "EME" and the rotor says Ducati ....it looks like a Saprisa with the two yellow wires, not a Bosch...WTF

[Guzzidad]

    I had this problem on an 01 EV. Try removing the headlight bulb and then check again. If regulation corrects itself there is a work-around for that.

[Tom H]

You might want to check your battery connections and ground points. If you have an iffy ground for instance, the reg. may charge at a higher rate thinking the battery is low.

Just a thought,
Tom

[jhem68]

 EME probably refers to Euro Moto Electrics in Colorado. Basically, a Ducati style aftermarket high output system that I have on two of my early Tontis'.

There were some R & R failures and they don't recommend using this set up with the dry cell type batteries such as lithium or the Odyssey as some failures were reported. So, there is that possibility if the PO used the wrong battery. But more likely is the way the R & R is wired is not detecting correct battery voltage when the key is turned on. In which case that wire should be run through a relay and it should be reading voltage directly off the battery (when the key is switched on). This is all based on the assumption that you have a good wet cell battery.

I happen to really like the EME charging system and their website used to have a pretty good set of instructions explaining how to set it up correctly, I really recommend checking it out or even consider giving them a call.


John H

[n3303j]

My '98 V11EV voltage regulator recently quit and started putting 16V to the battery. New regulator resolved it.

My '77 T3 regulator recently quit and started putting 0V to the battery.  New regulator solved it.

The V11EV failure did bring me home but hurt my battery. The T3 failure mode left me stranded but didn't hurt my battery.

Oh well....

[Wayne Orwig]

What John said. Likely a Euro Moto Electric Ducati adaptation.
Check that the regulator is grounded well. And check that the regulator is seeing FULL battery voltage with the key on (on the black or white wire, I forget which). If the regulator only sees 12 volts while the battery is at 16, it will keep charging.

[Vecchio Lupo]

thank you Guzzi collective....I feel that my issue lies in the VR/RR unit and possibly the "Goodenuff" wiring this bike suffers from. I should post a pic of the tail brake light setup...my boy relocated the rear turn sigs onto a 3 panel LED tail lights on the rear of the 35ltr Givi bags to include a wrap around guard rail H-D style. He did good work but it is excessive and Im working on removing it.

He was not afraid of modification...ther e is a MGNOC decal inside top box ...some of Y'all might know the first owner, I purchased from 2nd or 3rd owner, and Im sure thats where the hackery happened.

The book says I should have had a Saprisa system for 1990, but the Ducati VR/RR confused me, then I saw the EME Enduralast unit and I have no idea whats going on. A call to EME confirmed it was their unit but "The Guy" who knows everything is out till next week. I want to purchase the correct part(s) for my application.
I am running a Duracell AGM battery but I fear the 16v has damaged it, I'll replace with old fashioned lead acid.

Again, thank you one and all. yes I will sign up as donor/supporter. here and Guzzitech.....the knowledge vault is too valuable.

[jhem68]

The first thing I would recommend would be to have the battery tested at a battery store. If it checks out OK then use it. If not ok replace it with what you are comfortable with so long as it isn't a dry cell variety. An AGM battery is fine for this system and would be my preference as they are less inclined to boil over and make a mess if overcharged on the motorcycle.
It is what I use in my EME charging system.

I guess that on Holiday weekends the guys who know everything are smart enough to get out of Dodge for the long weekend! LOL


John H

[Vecchio Lupo]

I said Id post the modified tail/turn light setup with wraparound trim I have, thank you PO.  She now sports the correct handlebars and wind screen thanks to Charlie at Anteitam Cycles (Thank you again)

Also the decals inside the top box in case someone knows the Original Owner. 

[wirespokes]

While you're looking into replacing the R/R check out the Shindengen regulator. It's a mosfet style that's more rugged and runs cooler. Guys say the only way to destroy them is hooking them up backwards.

Kits are about $150, but I've gotten good used ones for $30-40. A kit is needed because the connectors are special.

These regulators - Shindengen FH020AA - were developed in Japan to provide a better regulator than was then available. That was sometime around 2010. All the Hondas and Kawasakis used them, and even the newer BMWs. Watch out for the chinese copies, they're just the same old regulators packaged to look like the Shindengen. There's info on how to tell the difference, although some have gotten pretty close in appearance. You can bet a new Shindengen regulator won't cost thirty or forty bucks, so give them a pass.

[n3303j]

Permanent magnet alternator output is constant at given RPM.

Thought regulators on permanent magnet alternators controlled output by turning excess current into heat by shorting output to ground. Hence the finned aluminum case.

By nature if you are cruising in the higher RPM ranges and you don't have a high load using the system output those regulators will run hot. It's a crude system that wastes some horsepower. But it's simple and the rotors never fail.

[moto-uno]

  And I installed a reg/rec unit from an Evo era HD on mine . It's a 2001 Jackel motor in my custom (think yellow and long) . It
works perfectly , are available almost every where , and the cheaper after market ones are more than up to the job as the output
from the Guzzi isn't as high as the HD ones were . Just mount them in good air flow .

[Vecchio Lupo]

UPDATE**********UPDATE********PROBLEM SOLVED *****

So many times a thread just disappears without result, so I have just now rectified my overcharging issue.

#1  Most of my problem lay with the owner(s) between to MGNOC member and myself. I have found excellent work and very good upgraded bits and I have found good enough for now, that outta work , just hook it up and lets go levels of work.

#2 my Ducati Energia Regulator was at fault but it was ruined by hack wiring and numerous bad grounds.  I stupidly thought..oh just a part replacement...plug and play...not the case.

#3 once I realized I had a Euro Moto Electric 450w Enduralast alternator, I called them for tech support. They were very nice, but beyond which regulator I needed , I was on my own.

#4 I did however find some info on Greg Benders site and this site when it came to trouble shooting EME systems.....seems a solid 12v was required on the keyed power source to the RR otherwise the RR thinks it needs to pump more juice into the battery resulting in 16v+ and letting the smoke out of the wires.  My keyed power source was only 9 or 10 v ....no other power source got higher than 10.4v although the battery was a solid 12.7v

I started with the negative terminal and reattached the main ground. I then checked or moved several others...cleaning as I went.   The EME manual said the best result was a keyed relay with a direct supply from the battery.....mine was hillbilly hardwired, I put in a good Hella relay and tested. 

All is as it should be.   

Thank you everyone who offered advice and direction, it kept me focused and now Im back on the road.....sincere gratitude fellow Guzzisti.

[Vecchio Lupo]

You might want to check your battery connections and ground points. If you have an iffy ground for instance, the reg. may charge at a higher rate thinking the battery is low.

Just a thought,
Tom

TOM WAS EXACTLY RIGHT...Thank you Sir.

[Aldo]

UPDATE**********UPDATE********PROBLEM SOLVED *****

So many times a thread just disappears without result, so I have just now rectified my overcharging issue.

#1  Most of my problem lay with the owner(s) between to MGNOC member and myself. I have found excellent work and very good upgraded bits and I have found good enough for now, that outta work , just hook it up and lets go levels of work.

#2 my Ducati Energia Regulator was at fault but it was ruined by hack wiring and numerous bad grounds.  I stupidly thought..oh just a part replacement...plug and play...not the case.

#3 once I realized I had a Euro Moto Electric 450w Enduralast alternator, I called them for tech support. They were very nice, but beyond which regulator I needed , I was on my own.

#4 I did however find some info on Greg Benders site and this site when it came to trouble shooting EME systems.....seems a solid 12v was required on the keyed power source to the RR otherwise the RR thinks it needs to pump more juice into the battery resulting in 16v+ and letting the smoke out of the wires.  My keyed power source was only 9 or 10 v ....no other power source got higher than 10.4v although the battery was a solid 12.7v

I started with the negative terminal and reattached the main ground. I then checked or moved several others...cleaning as I went.   The EME manual said the best result was a keyed relay with a direct supply from the battery.....mine was hillbilly hardwired, I put in a good Hella relay and tested. 

All is as it should be.   

Thank you everyone who offered advice and direction, it kept me focused and now Im back on the road.....sincere gratitude fellow Guzzisti.

I have a similar regulator/rectifier running on my Bosch charging system on my Ambo with full Convert motor and drivetrain.  I noticed that when I ran the "sensor wire" from that R/R to my fuse box for a switched 12v connection, my Guzzi would overcharge as well. This was verified through a voltage tester and also a dash-mounted voltmeter while riding. My solution was to use a relay for that sensor wire so readings would come direct from battery once I switched the key on. For anyone running these aftermarket R/R, the relay is a must, IMHO.   

[Guzzidad]

     What I'm reading into this is you basically found the same thing as I did but in a round about way. The R/R senses battery voltage through the head light circuit. But when the headlight illuminates it causes a voltage drop in the wiring to the R/R. That's why I suggested unplugging the bulb and then check. I also installed a relay. Maybe in a different way but with the same effect.