Something for the Brain trust

[Bulldog9]

Okay. I admit this is completely a first world problem...... Pardon the rant aspect of this.

As some may know, I retired this year from the Army. My wife and I have long talked about once. We are both retired traveling across the US and visiting all of the national parks, but also some of the great beautiful landscape features of our country and also pairing that with seeing a a MLB game in every stadium. We've broken the country up into four trips and will probably take 2 to 3 months for each trip.

Anyhow, in April we decided that instead of buying a trailer to tow behind my truck, we would buy a motor home. Being that my tundra has a transfer case, I assumed that there was a way to put it in neutral and we could flat tow it behind the RV which has a 15K tow capacity.

Well low and behold, there is no such capability. In fact, Toyota doesn't sell a single 4x4 with a neutral capability in their transfer cases. I fully understand it for all-wheel drive, limited duty, 4x4, etc. But in a full size truck with a full transfer case and low ratio come on man. Virtually every other truck manufacturer has this capability.

What's also ridiculous is that even the manual Tacoma cannot be flat towed due to the way that Toyota managers their transmission cooling and oiling with an internal pump driven by the engine.

I do have a moto tote and can easily carry one of my motorcycles. I did a test of this in October when I strapped the stornello to the back of the RV drove out to Texas and back unloaded it a couple times with with very little issue. The only problem with that, is if we go on a month-long trip, the lovely Mrs. Bulldog might not want to have her only means of transport to be a motorcycle, and would not want to be dependent upon me to go grocery shopping, etc. And of course going shopping with her is cruel and unhuman punishment..... But I digress...

As I've weighed out all of my options, they include:
1. Purchase a tow dolly for her car which is a front-wheel drive.
2. Purchase a car carrier to load any vehicle we have on and take it wherever we go.

The problem of course with both of these things is what do you do with a car carrier trailer or Dolly when you're not using it, especially when you have limited space.

3. Change her car to one that can be flat towed
4. Purchase a cheap used older vehicle that can be flat towed.
5. Trade in my truck for one that can be flat towed.
6. Sell the RV (aka mobile bed and breakfast) purchase a trailer as originally planned.

The problem with number three, is that the options are very limited and she is a little bit of a car snob. Plus she changes cars every 2 to 3 years so this would be an ongoing headache.

The problem with number four is that other than maybe a Fiat 500 with a manual transmission, there really aren't any little cars or fun cars that are towable that I would want, and I don't really need or want to add another vehicle to the fleet. I already have three toy cars, Don't want to sell any of them.

The problem with number six, is that this unit has everything we wanted and is well sorted. I got a heck of a deal for it. And am sufficiently in the to be able to trade it in and walk away with a trailer, but then I have to worry about installing solar, generators, etc etc. plus, I really like being able to set up 5 minutes max trailers take hours.

So that leaves me with number five, which is trading my beloved Toyota Tundra TRD pro for another truck. Being that I don't need a full size truck anymore to tow a camper, but do want the utility that truck provides, I'm looking at midsize trucks. As I said above, you can cross Toyota off that list. Not interested in any GM product, or Nissan, or Dodge so that leaves me with Ford. My brother-in-law has a ranger Raptor and I really like the truck and it would suit me perfectly, except do I really want to come 30k out of pocket? CarMax will give me 30k for my tundra and I would have to come out of pocket for the other 30k to change my truck. The problem of course with the Ford, is it's got a ton of gizmos, is a twin turbo V6, and in 10 years will probably be in worse condition than my tundra will be in 10 years even though it is already 7 years old. I bought the tundra because I wanted a lifetime truck, and it's been absolutely perfect for the most part. In fact, I like it so much that I have not had new car itch since owning it, which is a new thing for me.

Doing the math, it seems to make more sense to pick up a fun little car like the Fiat 500 or something else to flat tow behind the RV, but the idea of adding another vehicle at a time when I'm planning on selling at least three motorcycles and wanting the option in the future to pick up a project car to take 5 or 6 years to restore, you. See my dilemma. Yeah poor me.... LOL

Being that most of you here are similarly minded, and there's a wealth of experience with cars, trucks, motorcycles, etc, I figured I would throw this out to the Brain trust to see what you all think about it.

Okay rant off. Look forward to hearing any suggestions you all have and the rationales.

[Clifton]

Sounds like you'll be having fun! My preferences in order.

1) I never understood adding tow miles and wear to a car pulling it around the country so I'd want to pull a car carrier with a small car. The rig should't take much more room than just towing the car itself and if anything should be easier to tow. Once at a destination unload the car when you need it then park it back on the trailer.

2) Tow a small FWD car on a car dolly.

[RinkRat II]

 My vote would be for the tow dolly. You already have a vehicle designed for this and people sell them off all the time after traveling.  Look around at the retirement communities for a deal.

  My $.02
  Paul B 

[SIR REAL ED]

The tow dolly option sounds like the least problematic route.

I'd also ante up for some VR googles for Mrs. Bulldog.  Then, when she has to ride in one of your low-brow vehicles with you, she can put on the googles and be cruising the Rivera in a Ferrari with Rock Hudson at the wheel.

Plus you can wear them when you have to go shopping with her.....

[Kev m]

It would be 4 or 5 for ME.

BUT these guys are right and I think it should be 1 or 2 for you.

And maybe you can consider combining that with 3 or 4 (buying a different or used small fun car to be towed or carried. Personally I would suggest a Miata.

[michaell32]

A tow dolly stood up against a wall should take up very little room. That is route I would take.

[Clifton]

...Personally I would suggest a Miata.

It would be fun on nice roads. But if you might want to explore interesting roads off the beaten path (that you would not be able to in your motor home) consider something with more ground clearance which is why many pull/tow Jeep Wranglers along.

[Kev m]

It would be fun on nice roads. But if you might want to explore interesting roads off the beaten path (that you would not be able to in your motor home) consider something with more ground clearance which is why many pull/tow Jeep Wranglers along.

That's why I have two Jeeps and a Land Rover Defender.

But my brother from another mother isn't me ergo my difference in suggestion of something else I like that I think he might too.

[kingoffleece]

My father did what you're going to do foe 20 years.  My cousin was a "full timer" for 26 years.  They both towed a car 4 wheels down.  Why?  National Parks, many of them, had a 26 foot limit.  The Big Stuff has to go to private areas and as they found out, all the nice ones fill up very early.

As the folks have moved on in their journey and the cousin has aged out of the lifestyle (now 79 and plays 18 every morning starting at 5:30am-gotta love AZ) I'm not sure what it's like now.

When I had my 40 foot 5th wheel, there were plenty of places we could not get into due to size.  But, we had kids with us then.  If I did it again, I'd check size limits for parks and stick to that.

See you at Chase Field one day I hope!

[Vagrant]

I've been going through a similar mental collapse. My Tundra is a also a 17 with 120000 miles, in great shape and we know it will go 300000 more with no major issues. I have some money to burn through and just wanted a new truck. I also considered a mid size truck. It appears everything out there is blowing up engines. Has lots of electrical issues and is ridiculously priced! The only two things I would now consider it the Frontier. It is still a real V6 naturally aspirated and made to be worked on. It rides good for a mid size and handles great. The Honda Ridgeline is a great product too and does way more than you would think. Not sure if either could be flat towed but I doubt it.
Never sell that Tundra you will kick yourself forever! I would get a bigger aluminum trailer that has the side ride off in front so the bike can be up there and every trip you can bring a different one of your cars with and you'll have it all. JMHO.

[Kev m]

Ahhh midsize truck tangent.

After 10 wonderful years with Big Blue (my JKU Sahara Jeep) I wanted something new without a clutch.

I first looked at the Frontier because it's a great value with that NA V6. But we owned a Nissan previously and Jenn was reluctant because they are too Spartan and feel too tin-like.

Then I drove a nice AT4 Canyon that was comfortable, capable, and arguably posh enough for Jenn. But she pointed out that it was boring and the kids love Jeeps as much as I do. She said we're just Jeep people.

And Jeep is currently throwing ridiculous amounts of money at Gladiator leftovers ($11,500 in this case) so we located a loaded Mojave X with the unicorn Selec-Trac 5 position transfer case and said goodbye to Big Blue a couple weeks ago:




 

[Moparnut72]

I am looking at getting rid of the 5th wheel which doesn't get much use anymore. I also have a truck camper which I used when I was boat racing so I could tow the boat. I no longer race so I am going to sell it as well. So I will no longer need my Cummins Ram dually. I am thinking of a new Gladiator. I am undecided on the Pentastar V6 which is a well proven engine or the new Hurricane inline 6. Through the years we have had a couple of Pentastars, they make more than adequate power and gets great fuel mileage. There also is a new midsize Ram on the horizon as well.
kk

[Bulldog9]

As expected great feedback.

The Car dolly was my initial thought, then my wife started talking about getting an EV..... If I can convince her to keep her FWD Mini Lexus UX that is a strong runner.

Love the idea of a Miata, but it was too small for me before I got fat. Besides, if not a track racer, its a girls car ;-)

If I get one of those lightweight car carrier, I'll have to store it, and mobility of the rig is a big deal in most settings. This is still an issue with the Dolly. If just a Toad, it's easy to disconnect get into the Campground with the unit. Hard to drop the car carrier or doly and leave it somewhere while you 'camp' for a couple days. It's 32' and the chassis is pretty maneuverable. Also, so far, we've boondocked it 80% of the time and plan to do the same moving forward.

As for midsize trucks, I see several mentions of the new Frontier. I like it, and my last SGM bought one that looked like a 3/4 version of my Tundra. Didn't like how it rode/drove, and I'm not a Nissan guy. Couldn't pay me to buy a GM or Stellantis product. This pretty much leaves Toyota and Ford. Really too bad Toyota doesnt engineer a transfer case that gives full neutral like virtually all others do. As for Jeep.......... I think the Wrangler is one of the worst driving dynamics (to me) of virtually every vehicle on the road. The Gladiator is less so, but back in 2019-20 when they were clearing out the last years models, I test drove several, having had 3 Jeep SUV's in a row, I wanted to love it. But I really liked the Tundra, and a 10 minute test drive wasn't enough. A dealer let me test drive one overnight. I came away liking it, but not convinced to plunk $$ down.  I got back in my Tundra and in 100 feet knew I couldn't sell it. Then again, I don't like the standard Tundra, the TRD PRO suspension is fantastic, and I added the TRD Sport front and rear sway bars.

In the end, it's all preference.  Same is true for the Ranger and F150. The raptor Suspensions are sublime and in my wheelhouse for driving dynamics and feel. No interest in the regular ranger or F150s.

A Wrangler would be fun as a pop around vehicle when on the road camping, but NOT as my daily. I agree with Vagrant, I will likely regret getting rid of the Tundra, and especially in 5 years, when the Ford is being a Ford. I also have gotten used to the Caro and Cab space, nevermind the bulletproof nature of the truck.

I've owned a LOT of cars over the years, and have to say this Tundra has been my absolute favorite as a daily driver.  Prior to that my 2006 Jeep Commander that I had till 2017 when I bought the Tundra cured me of my perennial car itch. Crazy but true. I must admit though the Raptor Ranger is SUBLIME.......... Feels like a sports sedan. NOT kidding. In 4A (fully automatic 4WD) it was a total hoot to drive.

$$ is an issue, more for responsible use and my own internal peace of mind. Sounds dumb, but I really don't want to 'add' another vehicle to pay VA personal property tax....... But right now, as a possibility, I'm looking at 2000 and older Jeeps so I can throw Antique plates on it, Hagerty Insurance, and play a little... Hmm.....  Maybe an old Bronco or Blazer or short bed 4WD Truck? 

Unlikely we will need it by next summer, we will do a couple 2 week trips, and just throw the Stornello on the Mototote. But I'm a long term slow mover and planner and want to be able to flip the switch when the time comes.

Anyhow, thanks for letting me think out loud in a room where others understand......... .

[fotoguzzi]

Now you know why so many RVr’s flat tow Jeeps.
Let’s see some pics of your RV.
. I have RV envy and am always watching the used one on line.

[Bulldog9]

Now you know why so many RVr’s flat tow Jeeps.
Let’s see some pics of your RV.
. I have RV envy and am always watching the used one on line.

It's not much to look at, but it runs like a top. Super glad we have city sewer in my neighborhood  . 

[Wayne Orwig]

I flat tow my Miata.
Works great.

[Mr Revhead]

I'd be surprised if you can find any automatic that can be flat towed. Since day dot, you've had to disconnect the drive shaft from an auto to tow then. I've never ever heard of one that had some weird neutral mode that allowed you to tow it

[Wayne Orwig]

BTW, at one time I read that ALL of the new Broncos have the ability to be flat towed, even the automatics.

I find it hard to imagine, and I did not investigate it to verify it. It may be true of the 4 wheel drive versions though.

[Kev m]

I'd be surprised if you can find any automatic that can be flat towed. Since day dot, you've had to disconnect the drive shaft from an auto to tow then. I've never ever heard of one that had some weird neutral mode that allowed you to tow it

AFAIK all modern Jeep Wranglers and Gladiators with autos can be flat towed with the auto in Park and the transfer case in Neutral. This is/was also true for a bunch of other models including some Grand Cherokees, Cherokees, Liberties, Patriots, Commanders, etc. All dependent on the 4wd system and transfer case.

BTW, at one time I read that ALL of the new Broncos have the ability to be flat towed, even the automatics.

I find it hard to imagine, and I did not investigate it to verify it. It may be true of the 4 wheel drive versions though.

I don't think the modern Bronco is even offered in 2wd.

[Bulldog9]

I'd be surprised if you can find any automatic that can be flat towed. Since day dot, you've had to disconnect the drive shaft from an auto to tow then. I've never ever heard of one that had some weird neutral mode that allowed you to tow it

It's all in the 4WD transfer case. Four-wheel drive vehicles (not AWD) have the ability to put the transfer case in neutral which keeps the front and rear drive shafts and axles disconnected from the transmission. Jeep Ford Dodge Nissan all have the ability to put the transfer case in full neutral disconnecting the front and rear output shafts, some by button/nob, some by settings in a memu. Toyota, for whatever reason has their transfer case set up so that only the front output shaft is disconnected.

I don't think you can safely tow any rear-wheel drive vehicle with an automatic, And even some manuals cannot be flat towed. The only option is to disconnect the drive shaft.

I did find a driveshaft disconnect unit for the Tundra, but not sure I want to go that route.

[chuck peterson]

Less is more. That’s just me. Give me a van, and a sleeping bag, im good…

I’ve followed two friends as they hit the road after work.

First was a renovated custom skoolie, sold that

2nd was a mobile home, sold quickly

Lastly they chose a towing truck with a mid sized trailer because they fit the size requirements of the parks and they can pull up and settle in with the trailer for weeks at a time, but the truck takes them everywhere in the area without disrupting the camp

They do hit up the smaller parks and find volunteer spots at some locations to keep their brains working

Great folks who really acclimated to On The Road (jack Kerouac content)

Sounds like great fun

Happy campers

[Bulldog9]

Less is more. That’s just me. Give me a van, and a sleeping bag, im good…

I’ve followed two friends as they hit the road after work.

First was a renovated custom skoolie, sold that

2nd was a mobile home, sold quickly

Lastly they chose a towing truck with a mid sized trailer because they fit the size requirements of the parks and they can pull up and settle in with the trailer for weeks at a time, but the truck takes them everywhere in the area without disrupting the camp

They do hit up the smaller parks and find volunteer spots at some locations to keep their brains working

Great folks who really acclimated to On The Road (jack Kerouac content)

Sounds like great fun

Happy campers

Ah, were it just me, I'd be in an old school pop top Wesphalia with a Subaru motor transplant and tug along a MC. However, the Lovely Mrs Bulldog and grandkids would not be happy in such settings for cross country 1-2 month long trips. Thus, we don't have an RV we have a Mobile Bed & Breakfast 

[Bulldog9]

Ahhh midsize truck tangent.

After 10 wonderful years with Big Blue (my JKU Sahara Jeep) I wanted something new without a clutch.

I first looked at the Frontier because it's a great value with that NA V6. But we owned a Nissan previously and Jenn was reluctant because they are too Spartan and feel too tin-like.

Then I drove a nice AT4 Canyon that was comfortable, capable, and arguably posh enough for Jenn. But she pointed out that it was boring and the kids love Jeeps as much as I do. She said we're just Jeep people.

And Jeep is currently throwing ridiculous amounts of money at Gladiator leftovers ($11,500 in this case) so we located a loaded Mojave X with the unicorn Selec-Trac 5 position transfer case and said goodbye to Big Blue a couple weeks ago:

Kev, congrats on the new Gladiator! Nice color too. With the Selec-Trac 5, is a 4cyl correct? If manual trans, thats a total beach beast and true unicorn.

[Kev m]

Kev, congrats on the new Gladiator! Nice color too. With the Selec-Trac 5, is a 4cyl correct? If manual trans, thats a total beach beast and true unicorn.

Thanks man.

But, no my 2-dr JL is a 2.0T with an 8-spd auto and Selec-Trac.

This is a 3.6L NA PUG (Pentastar Upgrade) V6 with the same 8-spd and Selec-Trac (plus the factory lift with Fox reservoir shocks).

I specifically wanted to get away from the manual transmission as it's not ideal in the sand, though my JKU was a beast it was not easy to be gentle with the clutch in the deep, loose stuff.

[Bulldog9]

Update:

Ranger Raptor is off the table, and as the only real truck option I considered, I'm back to finding an adequate "Toad" in the next year or two. The Tundra stays and will likely be with me till the end.........

So, we are back to a Toad...........

I've always wanted one of these cars since the commercial......... .... It is #1 in the running. https://youtu.be/voP3U83kigk?si=ImC9cVYbePn4_z57