Why Do We Buy a Guzzi?

[kingoffleece]

Solitary animals get together every year to mate............

[dlapierre]

I've had 4 Guzzi's over the years. It began with me finding this site and seeing all the knowledge and helpful information there was, meaning I could do my own upkeep and repairs usinfg this infomarion. That's why I bought my first  one. The ones since were me upgrading. My son has the last one I owned...a 1200 Sport that he fusses over. Now I putt around on a couple of Royal Enfield Himalayans. I just turned 79.

[davethewelder]

In 2008ish, I test rode a Griso 1200 if if memory is correct, damn was it sweet.  Just enough power, very stable.   It was until 2022 until I found a dealer in SW Florida that appeared to be stable and bought a V85TT, sold it and now have V7_850 Stone TEN, this bike is special.

[Vagrant]

Solitary animals get together every year to mate............

Now there's a good reason to never go to rallies!

[Kev m]

Solitary animals get together every year to mate............

I have NEVER SLEPT with anyone from WG!!!   


I mean, same room but you know what I mean.... 

[shaggy]

For me I rode only offroad bikes with a bunch of other guys who also road street bikes. I didnt have a road bike and bought a V50 from one of the guys. a few years later i bought a wrecked SPlll. I still ride it 77,000 miles later

[davethewelder]

Back in around 2008 at Mid Ohio Sports Car race track in Mansfield Ohio, I test rode a Griso and I said this one is special.  In 2022 bought a V85TT, then rescued a V7 2014, sold them both and later bought a V7-850 Stone TEN.  I dont know if my V7 is a freak or what but the way it delivers the power, I swear it would out run the V85TT.  Only thing I have added is Wilburs springs up front, maybe a set of slip ons with an Upmap.

[Moparnut72]

No Dave I think my '26 Special would give my former T120 a run for its money. I think the new V7's are under rated.
kk

[faffi]

Unless your 1200 is very sick, there is no way a 67hp V7 will keep up with a 104 hp 1200. It may FEEL as fast or faster, and to me that is more important than actual numbers, but it is bound to be slower.

For instance, my XL500S felt more eager than my brother's KZ1300 DFI, but the big six blew past like the XL was chained to a tree. Regardless, my XL was fun to ride, the KZ (which my brother bought from me, and I the XL from him) felt so lame and tired, despite its 140 mph indicated top speed. The power came in so gently, so smoothly as to be almost undetectable. Only the rapid progress of the speedo needle told you the thing was quick and fast.

[Kev m]

Unless your 1200 is very sick, there is no way a 67hp V7 will keep up with a 104 hp 1200. It may FEEL as fast or faster, and to me that is more important than actual numbers, but it is bound to be slower.

T120 Bonnie - 79-80 HP / 520#'s wet.
V7 - 67 up / 481# wet

[faffi]

Thanks, Kev, it is good to see that my memory still fails me with utter reliability

[SIR REAL ED]

I have NEVER SLEPT with anyone from WG!!!   


I mean, same room but you know what I mean.... 

It will all be OK Kev. 

Don't take it personally.

Rejection hurts, but only for a little while....   

[SIR REAL ED]

Unless your 1200 is very sick, there is no way a 67hp V7 will keep up with a 104 hp 1200. It may FEEL as fast or faster, and to me that is more important than actual numbers, but it is bound to be slower.

For instance, my XL500S felt more eager than my brother's KZ1300 DFI, but the big six blew past like the XL was chained to a tree. Regardless, my XL was fun to ride, the KZ (which my brother bought from me, and I the XL from him) felt so lame and tired, despite its 140 mph indicated top speed. The power came in so gently, so smoothly as to be almost undetectable. Only the rapid progress of the speedo needle told you the thing was quick and fast.

I let a friend ride my Suzuki DR650.  He was convinced it had more power than his son's Suzuki GSXR600!

I assumed he never got the GSXR above 5,000 rpm.

[davethewelder]

T120 Bonnie - 79-80 HP / 520#'s wet.
V7 - 67 up / 481# wet

.  V7 wins in 2 categories, V7 is better looking and V7 wins with power to weight ratio.

[TN Mark]

T120 Bonnie - 79-80 HP / 520#'s wet.
V7 - 67 up / 481# wet

Are these dyno numbers or manufacturer published numbers?

Aesthetically, the V7 blows away the T120.

Plus the V7 has actual heritage. Triumph moved absolutely everything to Thailand years ago. Many refer to them as Thaiumph as they no longer have any tie whatsoever to England.

[Moparnut72]

Those are published numbers which don't mean an awful lot in my opinion. I am an outboard motor gearhead. Back in the 50's and 60's Mercury sold a 20 Cu In motor called the Super 10 Hurricane with 10hp on the data tag. In later years they were put on dynos and depending on the year produced 16 to 18 HP. Compatible OMC's and larger couldn't even attempt to keep up with them resulting in a popular expression started by OMC. "Mercurys are fast but don't last." Sound familiar?  As I have said I didn't see much difference in the performance of the two bikes. The new, my '26 Special has substantially more power than my previous V7 even though the published HP's are not that much different.
kk

[kidsmoke]

I'm not a fan of white motorcycles.

no? You're breaking my heart....



Nicely surprised with how often the GRiSO is being referenced as a benchmark machine. Many suggest it's a future 1000S in terms of gravitas within the range. Let's hope!

For me it boils down to bang for the buck, DIY accessibility and Heritage. I LOVE riding them. I LOVE looking at (many of) them. And there's lots to talk about in terms of their role in the history of Moto's in general - lending itself to community.

Kev M - I too referred to the Jackal as the red headed stepchild of the community in the 'Best Looking' thread, not having seen your identical comment here til just now.

Your White Jackal was an early muse to me in my Guzzi journey.  cheers to that! 

[inditx]

Well, I accompanied my brother to the drag strip before I had a license and there was a guy running a Guzzi there.
It was so sweet sounding and the percussion was like a timpani drum only we called it a “ground pounder”.
Anyway, been smitten ever since!
inditx

[kingoffleece]

Triumph production in Thailand has some of the highest quality in production ratings one can find anywhere in the world. 
Having worked for them and having friends who are sales managers my experience is they have never been better.  Nothing like my old ones-that's for sure.
Now, I'll take my Guzzi all day every day but if I wanted another Triumph overseas production wouldn't hold me back one little bit.

[TN Mark]

Triumph production in Thailand has some of the highest quality in production ratings one can find anywhere in the world. 
Having worked for them and having friends who are sales managers my experience is they have never been better.  Nothing like my old ones-that's for sure.
Now, I'll take my Guzzi all day every day but if I wanted another Triumph overseas production wouldn't hold me back one little bit.

I'm sure the Triumph - Thailand quality is fine. But their pricing reflects Made In England, not Thailand.
When you remove all connection to England (manufacturing/R&D etc) from a Triumph, what are you left with? IMHO, a Thaiumph.
The 'heritage' at Triumph, at this point, is pure Marketing spin. It's simply not reality. If I were English I'd be embarrassed they use the UK flag at all. That time period has simply passed.

Same with Indian Motorcycles under Polaris. That 1901 'heritage' marketing was pure nonsense. In Indian's case, even worse as the two best selling lines, the Scout and the Challenger/Pursuit were pure Victory DNA with minimal engineering differences and a badge change.

The Victory Octane was shown to Victory dealers as their entry level bike years before it came out at Sturgis as the Indian Scout.
Same with the Challenger. It was also shown to Victory dealers as the new 2018 Victory Cross series line. Again, only to be released years later looking like a Harley with Indian badging.

If Polaris didn't have the Victory design folder to rob from, Indian wouldn't have lasted 5 years with Polaris. I kept wanting Polaris to come up with something, even one thing, that was new, original and unique for the Indian line. Nope, nothing, not one single thing.

For me, the Victory was all new, original and unique because the entire line was new. Polaris Marketing was poor but the bikes were solid.

Moto Guzzi, 100% pure heritage back to the inception in 1921. Even in the same location. I have no issue honoring and congratulating them on that feat.

[Bulldog9]

Well, I accompanied my brother to the drag strip before I had a license and there was a guy running a Guzzi there.
It was so sweet sounding and the percussion was like a tempani drum only we called it a “ground pounder”.
Anyway, been smitten ever since!
inditx

It's 1/4 an old school pushrod V8..... Sounds best with a dual exhaust.

[Rons]

Unless your 1200 is very sick, there is no way a 67hp V7 will keep up with a 104 hp 1200. It may FEEL as fast or faster, and to me that is more important than actual numbers, but it is bound to be slower.

For instance, my XL500S felt more eager than my brother's KZ1300 DFI, but the big six blew past like the XL was chained to a tree. Regardless, my XL was fun to ride, the KZ (which my brother bought from me, and I the XL from him) felt so lame and tired, despite its 140 mph indicated top speed. The power came in so gently, so smoothly as to be almost undetectable. Only the rapid progress of the speedo needle told you the thing was quick and fast.

I had a Griso1200 for five years. My V7 Sport does not come close to that type of effortless acceleration.
It does feel faster than my 2015 Bonneville (69 air cooled hp). Seat of the pants, very close to my ‘94 Ducati 900CR (450 pounds 72 hp).

My 2022 Speed Twin 1200 will destroy the V7 in any acceleration contest. It’s all relative.

[kingoffleece]

Chinese Bennelli, small BMW, Triumph, and KTM made in India.
Sign of the times.  I'll absolutely agree Polaris has BIG stones with Indian, or rather, had.  Since 1901.  Please.  But who's to say any new Bloor Triumph has/had any cred as there was no Ed Turner.  Where's the line?  Designed here, build there?  It's 90% Brits running the far east plants.  Does that count?  Moved to Hinkley, no longer made in Meridian?
Heck, our beloved Guzzi has Aprilia parts, and some Chinese parts.  Mine had tires made in America as delivered.

[faffi]

I really do not understand why someone would claim a price should reflect the origin of a product. I mean, it is not like Made in Britain or Norway or USA is an automatic stamp of quality, even if labor cost is higher than in most Asian countries.

A product is worth what people are willing to pay for it. Some are willing to pay extra for heritage, be that a name or a design or a location or whatever, and if enough feel like that, the manufacturere will likely exploit the situation by charging more. But that Guzzis has been made in the same area since the beginning does not in itself make it any better. Or worse. It just means that it has a long tradition. Some will value that, others do not care.

[TN Mark]

So, if Moto Guzzi, Ferrari and Ducati completely pulled out of Italy and moved to China, buyers shouldn’t care?
Different strokes for different folks I guess. A Triumph with zero tie whatsoever to England is a Thaiumph.
When I bought my 2012 Victory 88% of all the parts were sourced within the US. At the time Harley was around 44%.
Yes, that made a difference in my purchase decision.
The Chinese made Harley’s were certainly a flop, and I’m fine with that.

It matters with some products and it doesn’t to others.
When you buy a CF Moto, there’s no pretense of origin, history or heritage.
When you buy a Moto Guzzi or a Triumph? To me, origin, history and heritage matters.

YMMV

[SIR REAL ED]

It's 1/4 an old school pushrod V8..... Sounds best with a dual exhaust.

Yep.  I remember thinking "Wow!  That sounds like 1/2 of a hopped up V8!" when I heard a Yamaha VMax with an aftermarket exhaust.

Sound and vibration are big selling points for Moto Guzzi.  Same with Harley, Ducati, and other V-Twins.

[SIR REAL ED]

I really do not understand why someone would claim a price should reflect the origin of a product. I mean, it is not like Made in Britain or Norway or USA is an automatic stamp of quality, even if labor cost is higher than in most Asian countries.

In the US, it is a left over protectionist mentality from the 1980's when "Buy American!" was a massive US automakers/UAW public relations campaign in response to the possibility of "Japan Inc." obliterating US auto manufacturing when the quality of American automobiles went to Hell in a Handbasket over a dozen or so years. 

The same also applied to motorcycles.  Harley Davidson's famous lawsuit in 1984(?) was the reason the Japanese big four reduced engine size of their 750cc models to 699cc.

Some was also due to WWII & Korean War veterans remembering the bad old days of war.  Many in that generation would rather eat ground glass than buy a large consumer item like a car from anywhere outside the US.  The younger generations did not think similarly to any large extent.

I don't remember any similar thinking about products made by other evil Axis countries like Italy and Germany.  I suspect it was simply due to the fact that German and Italian autos/motorcycles were seen more as status symbols, and not the high volume threat to US manufacturing that the Asian companies represented.  The average American Joe was not buying German or Italian autos, or even motorcycles.

[faffi]

In the US, it is a left over protectionist mentality from the 1980's when "Buy American!" was a massive US automakers/UAW public relations campaign in response to the possibility of "Japan Inc." obliterating US auto manufacturing when the quality of American automobiles went to Hell in a Handbasket.

Some was also due to WWII & Korean War veterans remember the bad old days of war.  Many in that generation would rather eat glass than buy a large consumer item like a car from anywhere outside the US.  The younger generations did not think similarly to any large extent.

Hopefully, there will always be some form of nationalistic pride & community in all locations.  People need a sense of belonging to a greater whole.

Thank you for the insight. I guess being Norwegian, I am pretty agnostic when it comes to production, as we have very little history making vehicles. And the ones we've made were not very great. However, what you wrote reminded me that many from the generation before me would not buy anything German due to the two world wars.

There is particularly one region in Norway, down at the south-west corner, where America is held in high esteem. My oldest son, born in 1987, have always been a fan of Amcars, mopar in particular, although he owns a Ford Torino. And he has just agreed to buy a 2004 low mileage Tahoe. Personally, the obvious lack of build quality regarding virtually every car made in USA is a good reason not to want one, even if some looks good. European mass produced cars are also lacking in quality, although less so than those from America. Japan make boring cars, but typically of the best quality in my exprience. So why have all of my cars, save for one Japanese and one American, come from Europe

[guzzisteve]

I would buy used but not new Chinese crap, Made in Italy not just assembled there. See if they last 200K miles Loosing their heritage is hard to swallow.

[SIR REAL ED]

Thank you for the insight. I guess being Norwegian, I am pretty agnostic when it comes to production, as we have very little history making vehicles. And the ones we've made were not very great. However, what you wrote reminded me that many from the generation before me would not buy anything German due to the two world wars.

There is particularly one region in Norway, down at the south-west corner, where America is held in high esteem. My oldest son, born in 1987, have always been a fan of Amcars, mopar in particular, although he owns a Ford Torino. And he has just agreed to buy a 2004 low mileage Tahoe. Personally, the obvious lack of build quality regarding virtually every car made in USA is a good reason not to want one, even if some looks good. European mass produced cars are also lacking in quality, although less so than those from America. Japan make boring cars, but typically of the best quality in my exprience. So why have all of my cars, save for one Japanese and one American, come from Europe

Cause you are a proud member of the EU?     Makes sense to buy local as much as possible for all sorts of reasons.

I think it may be law that all items must have a "Made in _____." label on the product or packing.  Do they have "Made in the EU!" labels over there?

Quality of American cars varies greatly depending on year of manufacture and model. Lots of research is wise.

"Japan Inc." scaring the hell out of the US auto makers was one of the best things possible for the US auto industry.