Spark plug compression ring

[drdwb]

I decided to save $300.00 by changing the spark plugs in our 2018 VW Tiguan with 2.01 4 cylinder, the plugs for this were $28.00 each, yes that’s correct.
Pretty simple task, but the passenger side cylinder spark plug boot was stuck solid, and as careful as I was disintegrated and  came out in pieces as soon as I removed the coil, spark plug cap, They are about 3 1/2 “ long (Audi uses same and I think possibly Volvo ) about $10.oo to replace, and available local.


The spark plug was rusted in place, but came out without breaking, but I noticed that the plug came out without the compression ring, I can not see it with a bore o scope, and can not feel it with any tool or bent wire I put in. The other 3 plugs came out clean with rings attached, which makes me wonder it the rusted one had a ring on it, this is the first plug change with about 90,000 miles on it, by the way this plug was the dirtiest, the others looked like they could be cleaned and put back in.

Here’s the question to all the talented mechanics out there.
Do I put the new plug in with the compression ring on, Or do I take the compression ring off the new plug and assume the old one is there and just rusted. With the camera I can’t see much if any difference on the surface other than the rust.
I’m afraid that if I get in there with some kind of tool to scrape the surface I’ll end up knocking all the crap into the cylinder.

If the original ring is there will it screw up engine performance? I’m open for any and all suggestions including I’m making a mountain out of a molehill.

Thanks for any and all constructive suggestions.

[Kev m]

I'd use the new ring with the plug.

My thinking is either the original didn't have one (unlikely) or the old one is, for all intents and purposes, now part of the cylinder head and it was in fact sealed, so you want to create a new seal with the new plug.

[Wayne Orwig]

I would use the gasket.

And a touch of anti-seize on the threads. A touch of silicone grease in the cap. Then not touch them again for 120,000 miles or more. (that is the reason for the high dollar plugs. They last.)

[wirespokes]

If you can't feel the old sealing ring in there with a pick or straight piece of wire, it aint there. Anti seize the threads and silicone the boots and go for it.

[Bulldog9]

I agree with the recommendation to use the new plug with the ring. The old may be fused to the head. One thing you COULD do would be to spray some Kroil or similar lightly down the  hole to the lip/seat for the plug, then use one of the older plugs (also with some kroil on the threads) and tighten down, then extract. You might be able to get it to come out by breaking it loose this way. Unlikely, but that's what I'd try.

Also a good idea to check all the other plug/coil caps and make sure they aren't FUBAR.

This is one of the things I dont like about 100K spark plugs. I R&R mine every 4-5 years regardless of mileage, and usually use a very small schmear of copper antiseize.

[Kev m]

A lot of people in this thread keep saying to use anti-seize on the spark plug threads. I realize most of us are old enough that we grew up being told that, but that advice stopped being a recommendation for professionals a decade or two ago when plug manufacturers started coating the plugs with plating designed to take the place of it

Ngk issued a TSB about it years ago and now they mention it on their website:

5 Things You Should Know About Spark Plugs https://share.google/P4vfUlv3U9sDIRPMJ

So if you still DO on an NGK or similar plug, reduce torque by about 20%.

Champion doesn't say to NOT use it, but their website doesn't mention using it in their "step by step" instructions:

How To Change Spark Plugs | Champion Auto Parts https://share.google/bRXPzS1IIoA2J68ag

Maybe it's application specific for them.

I keep the stuff around and I'm always tempted by it because of habit, but I've stopped using it on my plugs, especially NGKs.

[FarmallA]

Maybe you can take a plug with a compression ring on it ,(a used one), and screw it in to another plug hole till it bottoms out lightly, while counting the number of turns.  Then do the same thing with the same plug in the suspect hole. If it takes fewer turns, then the washer is still in there. 

FarmallA
Steve

[Vagrant]

Or if there is room measure depth with a vernier caliper.

[SIR REAL ED]

Maybe you can take a plug with a compression ring on it ,(a used one), and screw it in to another plug hole till it bottoms out lightly, while counting the number of turns.  Then do the same thing with the same plug in the suspect hole. If it takes fewer turns, then the washer is still in there. 

FarmallA
Steve

I salute a REAL farmer!  If you use your brain, you can usually make do with what you have.

[BMCMOTO]

I would be sliding my bore scope down that hole. Small bore scopes that ca be connected to a phone work just fine for stuff like this. Cheap on Amazon or such, Harbor Freight has self contained ones for reasonable money as well.

Brian

[Wayne Orwig]

Did the soot on the threads of the old plug look like it was screwed in farther?

[drdwb]

I did the boreoscope and couldn’t see any thing different than the 3 normal ones, I also used a dental pick duct taped to a 6 inch long 1/4” extension to try to feel any difference, but didn’t dig real hard so as not to knock in any debris, there was /is quite a lot of corrosion, the other 3 were clean. I spent a lot of time digging/ scraping , vacuuming/ blowing out the hole with the plug in place. I was glad I had the thin spark plug socket used on the inside plug on the Norge. Actually the Norge has more space around plug and the depth of hole on the VW was at least 1/3 -1/2 deeper than the  Norge.
I did use a little anti seize on the bottom of the new plugs, and silicon inside and outside plug boots to hopefully make them come out in 100,00 miles.
Anyway it’s all back together, car runs fine so I’m happy.

Wayne this plug was very corroded all the way around, the others were clean, that’s what made me wonder if perhaps unlikely is it seems,I wondered if that plug was missing the ring, I have no other explanation as to why this plug was corroded, other than the deterioration of the plug boot. The plugs went in the trash Monday morning so can’t go back and compare.

Next task is replacing rear brake pads, the dealer says the pads and rotors should be replaced together. My thought is why replace the rotors, the pads are only wore down to 4mm , I can’t imagine the rotors being that bad. But I may be wrong, I’ll look at them when I get in there and decide then.

The VW dealer wanted $$377.31 to replace plug, it would have ended up much more since the spark plug boot was deteriorated and had to be dug out. So 4 plugs $ 27.94 each at NAPA, and new sparkplug boot $8.00 also NAPA saved over $250 = more beer money.  Except my time and for me shop time is like meditating.

The quoted cost for brake pad and rotor change is $598.23.  I’m going to see how much I can save here by doing it myself and only replacing discs. My rational here is ( feel free to correct me) but I’ve never had to change rotors on any bike I’ve owned and the car certainly doesn’t get the braking we’ve done on the bikes.

So thanks for all the suggestions/ input I sincerely appreciate having the forum as a sounding board. Lots of good folks here in the goose family.

[Bulldog9]

I did the boreoscope and couldn’t see any thing different than the 3 normal ones, I also used a dental pick duct taped to a 6 inch long 1/4” extension to try to feel any difference, but didn’t dig real hard so as not to knock in any debris, there was /is quite a lot of corrosion, the other 3 were clean. I spent a lot of time digging/ scraping , vacuuming/ blowing out the hole with the plug in place. I was glad I had the thin spark plug socket used on the inside plug on the Norge. Actually the Norge has more space around plug and the depth of hole on the VW was at least 1/3 -1/2 deeper than the  Norge.
I did use a little anti seize on the bottom of the new plugs, and silicon inside and outside plug boots to hopefully make them come out in 100,00 miles.
Anyway it’s all back together, car runs fine so I’m happy.

Wayne this plug was very corroded all the way around, the others were clean, that’s what made me wonder if perhaps unlikely is it seems,I wondered if that plug was missing the ring, I have no other explanation as to why this plug was corroded, other than the deterioration of the plug boot. The plugs went in the trash Monday morning so can’t go back and compare.

Next task is replacing rear brake pads, the dealer says the pads and rotors should be replaced together. My thought is why replace the rotors, the pads are only wore down to 4mm , I can’t imagine the rotors being that bad. But I may be wrong, I’ll look at them when I get in there and decide then.

The VW dealer wanted $$377.31 to replace plug, it would have ended up much more since the spark plug boot was deteriorated and had to be dug out. So 4 plugs $ 27.94 each at NAPA, and new sparkplug boot $8.00 also NAPA saved over $250 = more beer money.  Except my time and for me shop time is like meditating.

The quoted cost for brake pad and rotor change is $598.23.  I’m going to see how much I can save here by doing it myself and only replacing discs. My rational here is ( feel free to correct me) but I’ve never had to change rotors on any bike I’ve owned and the car certainly doesn’t get the braking we’ve done on the bikes.

So thanks for all the suggestions/ input I sincerely appreciate having the forum as a sounding board. Lots of good folks here in the goose family.

There's a good chance that plug went in without the gasket/compression ring.

[ridingron]

The auto repair shop I used to go to does the same rotor and pad change too. After a little conversation, I had them do an oil change and moved on down the road. I have only replaced one rotor in my entire life and that was on a used car I bought. The brake pad had worn away and the metal backing plate rubbed on the rotor.