Cold Weather demands Intellectual Curiosity.....

[SIR REAL ED]

One thing I don't think I have ever seen discussed here at WildGuzzi is oil. 

I'm not sure why the subject has not been examined. 

Shirley, someone out there might have knowledge and/or an opinion....

I recall reading this Cycle Magazine article by Gordon Jennings back in the day:

https://www.bridgestonemotorcycle.com/documents/oilpremix6.pdf

The conclusions make perfect sense based on simple Physics. 

Modern oils are impressive.  Stihl recommends a 50:1 mixture, I have run my Stihl equipment on Amsoil 100:1 for decades.  Never a problem.

So if your really love your four stroke (assuming anyone here owns one....), adding some oil to the gas (Marvel Mystery Oil or maybe Amsoil 100:1) might show your engine some love.

Catalytic convertors may protest, and perhaps maybe modern Fuel Injection systems might be sensitive.  But hey, the quest to increase human intelligence requires a bit of sacrifice.

If anyone has access to a dyno, running some baselines, then running again burning pre-mixed fuel would be an interesting experiment. 

More HP?, Cooler engine temperatures?, seductive aromas?

[Vagrant]

How about that. April first already.

[Bulldog9]

One thing I don't think I have ever seen discussed here at WildGuzzi is oil. 

I'm not sure why the subject has not been examined. 

Shirley, someone out there might have knowledge and/or an opinion....

I recall reading this Cycle Magazine article by Gordon Jennings back in the day:

https://www.bridgestonemotorcycle.com/documents/oilpremix6.pdf

The conclusions make perfect sense based on simple Physics. 

Modern oils are impressive.  Stihl recommends a 50:1 mixture, I have run my Stihl equipment on Amsoil 100:1 for decades.  Never a problem.

So if your really love your four stroke (assuming anyone here owns one....), adding some oil to the gas (Marvel Mystery Oil or maybe Amsoil 100:1) might show your engine some love.

Catalytic convertors may protest, and perhaps maybe modern Fuel Injection systems might be sensitive.  But hey, the quest to increase human intelligence requires a bit of sacrifice.

If anyone has access to a dyno, running some baselines, then running again burning pre-mixed fuel would be an interesting experiment. 

More HP?, Cooler engine temperatures?, seductive aromas?

Day drinking? 

[Scott Carpenter]

Not a fan of canola oil...

[Ncdan]

IMHO, no oil additive can or will replace metal that has worn off any moving part inside any internal combustion engine.
However it’s a proven fact that reputable oil additive
such as Marvel mystery oil, that contains detergent can breakdown built up of light to moderate slug and varnish build up, which can hamper the oil transfer in lifters and pushrods. And I will add especially in older design motors like my jeep TJ 4.0 I6 motor.
I think there has been to much documentation of reputable mechanics testimonies over the years that the addition of some of these additives eliminated, stuck lifters and push rods, in the valve train system in older engines.

[guzzisteve]

Day drinking? 

Too many tasty brownies maybe.

[Dirk_S]

Lake Speed, Jr, race tech for his dad’s team, certified tribologist and oil engineer, has stated many times on his Motor Oil Geek YouTube channel that additives added to fuel can be helpful, but additives added to engine oil are NEVER helpful. So, uh, I don’t know how well those cylinders and pistons will respond, but just don’t think about adding fuel to your engine oil, mm’K? 

[Ncdan]

Lake Speed, Jr, race tech for his dad’s team, certified tribologist, and oil engineer, has stated many times on his Motor Oil Geek YouTube channel that additives added to fuel can be helpful, but additives added to engine oil are NEVER helpful. So, uh, I don’t know how well those cylinders and pistons will respond, but just don’t think about adding fuel to your engine oil, mm’K? 

I may find out for myself soon.
I’ve developed a rattling noise in the top end of my 04 jeep wrangler 4.0 i6 motor.
I first thought it was in the bell housing area because it would sound louder when I crawled under the car, it would sound like it was coming out of the bell housing.
My mechanic pulled the transmission and we found that the clutch pressure plate and release bearing apparently just been replaced prior to my buying it.
We then determined it was possibly a timing chain. So we pull the timing chain cover, and it was very loose so we put a new timing chain and gears in the jeep.
Cranked it up and it still had the same rattling. I got a mechanics stethoscope and it’s obvious that rattling is coming from directly under the valve cover.  So now my mechanic thinks it’s coming from the valve train, possibly the rocker arms, push rods or lifters. Jeep has 128k miles.
He recommended trying the Marvel mystery oil and just see if that helps any while we’re waiting for the weather to break so we can install new rocker arms, push rods and lifters.
Directions says it can take from 50 to 200 miles to clean up any deposits and built-up hardened sludge that may be blocking oil channels.
I’ll report back in a few days and see if it makes any difference.

[SIR REAL ED]

Too many tasty brownies maybe.

I think the olive oil was fermented.....

Screw that virgin olive oil!  From now on i only use fermented olive oil!

[BIF]

My Criteria for oils is that they go on smooth, smell good, and most importantly do not cause latex failures.

[SIR REAL ED]

I may find out for myself soon.
I’ve developed a rattling noise in the top end of my 04 jeep wrangler 4.0 i6 motor.
I first thought it was in the bell housing area because it would sound louder when I crawled under the car, it would sound like it was coming out of the bell housing.
My mechanic pulled the transmission and we found that the clutch pressure plate and release bearing apparently just been replaced prior to my buying it.
We then determined it was possibly a timing chain. So we pull the timing chain cover, and it was very loose so we put a new timing chain and gears in the jeep.
Cranked it up and it still had the same rattling. I got a mechanics stethoscope and it’s obvious that rattling is coming from directly under the valve cover.  So now my mechanic thinks it’s coming from the valve train, possibly the rocker arms, push rods or lifters. Jeep has 128k miles.
He recommended trying the Marvel mystery oil and just see if that helps any while we’re waiting for the weather to break so we can install new rocker arms, push rods and lifters.
Directions says it can take from 50 to 200 miles to clean up any deposits and built-up hardened sludge that may be blocking oil channels.
I’ll report back in a few days and see if it makes any difference.

Dan-O,

Back in the day, a neighbor get bought a old Dodge car with the slant six engine.  It sounded like a rod was going to come out thru the block.  His dad said a farm tractor that they had when he was a kid did this once in a while. He said "I think it is a piece of carbon that has broke loose from the piston and is rattling around inside the cylinder."

Time for the ageless Farmer Fix.

We pulled the air filter cover, warmed up the engine to full operating temperature, held the throttle at about 3-4,000 rpm and dribbled water into the carb just fast enough to almost,  but not quite stall the engine.  We kept this up for about 1 minute and assured the neighbors the house is not on fire and that no one had died.

A couple minutes later, the beast was purring like a kitten.

If your configuration is like my wife Jeep XJ with the 4.0 straight six.  I would disconnect the intake hose at the mass flow air sensor.  Have your wife hold the engine at 3,000 rpm and use a squirt bottle to squirt water into the intake.

I've also heard of people using Gumout, Brake fluid, and of course Ed's Red.

I'd go with water first due to it's less flammable. Then maybe fermented olive oil, than the other stuff above.

If that doesn't work, BullDog9 can probably recommend an adequate bouron solvent.

Keep up posted!

[SIR REAL ED]

My Criteria for oils is that they go on smooth, smell good, and most importantly do not cause latex failures.

You my friend, understand preventive maintenance better than most!

A well thought out PM program can save one a lot of money over one's life!

[Perazzimx14]

I think the olive oil was fermented.....

Screw that virgin olive oil!  From now on i only use fermented olive oil!

Once screwed would it not just be "olive oil"?

[guzzisteve]

I think you would have to ask Popeye.


I use an additive in my fuel called DurAlt, mostly cause I had goo in fuel rail & a stuck injector. Replaced all injectors & got a catalyst code on dash errors twice so I know it's all clean. My exhaust does not have the big cat in front of muffler. No issues or codes

 

[johnwesley]

Dan-O,

Back in the day, a neighbor get bought a old Dodge car with the slant six engine.  It sounded like a rod was going to come out thru the block.  His dad said a farm tractor that they had when he was a kid did this once in a while. He said "I think it is a piece of carbon that has broke loose from the piston and is rattling around inside the cylinder."

Time for the ageless Farmer Fix.

We pulled the air filter cover, warmed up the engine to full operating temperature, held the throttle at about 3-4,000 rpm and dribbled water into the carb just fast enough to almost,  but not quite stall the engine.  We kept this up for about 1 minute and assured the neighbors the house is not on fire and that no one had died.

A couple minutes later, the beast was purring like a kitten.

If your configuration is like my wife Jeep XJ with the 4.0 straight six.  I would disconnect the intake hose at the mass flow air sensor.  Have your wife hold the engine at 3,000 rpm and use a squirt bottle to squirt water into the intake.

I've also heard of people using Gumout, Brake fluid, and of course Ed's Red.

I'd go with water first due to it's less flammable. Then maybe fermented olive oil, than the other stuff above.

If that doesn't work, BullDog9 can probably recommend an adequate bouron solvent.

Keep up posted!

Funny thing, I know of a Harley tech that builds big v-twin motors. He does the same thing to bikes coming in that just aren’t running right. He uses a mist from a spray bottle, holding the engine at 3,000 and sprayers that mist of water. It’s amazing the black smoke and junk that comes out of the exhaust. I asked him what was the deal with that. He said water will not compress and it like a bunch of tiny water droplets blasting the piston and combustion chamber, cleaning the carbon build up out. Next he changed plugs and filter. Customers thought he was a magician. He told me any time the Harley didn’t run right change the plugs before anything else. It’s cheap, easy, and often fixes the problems.

I know the jeep issue is a different thing all together. I have had good luck running seafoam through the tank. Dad always run marvel mystery oil in his old harleys.

[SIR REAL ED]

Once screwed would it not just be "olive oil"?

 

Good point!

Honest advertising would have "non-virgin olive oil" on the label.....

On a side note, one of the local farmers sells organic produce on the side of the road.  Good stuff  & exactly the kind of person one would want for a neighbor or best friend.
There are always a few women buying when I visit his roadside stand.  Once I advised him in a very loud voice "If this produce really is orgasmic, I think you should raise your prices!!"

He and all the ladies present had a good laugh.

[SIR REAL ED]

Funny thing, I know of a Harley tech that builds big v-twin motors. He does the same thing to bikes coming in that just aren’t running right. He uses a mist from a spray bottle, holding the engine at 3,000 and sprayers that mist of water. It’s amazing the black smoke and junk that comes out of the exhaust. I asked him what was the deal with that. He said water will not compress and it like a bunch of tiny water droplets blasting the piston and combustion chamber, cleaning the carbon build up out. Next he changed plugs and filter. Customers thought he was a magician. He told me any time the Harley didn’t run right change the plugs before anything else. It’s cheap, easy, and often fixes the problems.

I know the jeep issue is a different thing all together. I have had good luck running seafoam through the tank. Dad always run marvel mystery oil in his old harleys.

The "redneck" explanation I have always heard of the Farmer's Fix was "steam cleaning the piston tops & combustion chambers."  That's why you want the engine to be fully warmed up, so the water vaporizes when it contacts the hot intake manifold.

You are correct, the amount of smoke and debris that comes out the exhaust pipe is amazing!

On a modern vehicle, I would be concerned about possibly plugging the catalytic convertor.

I have heard some good things regarding BG products, but i have not tried them.

This sounds interesting:  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B081TKBG18?tag=productsbestrv127340-20

If only some of my old junk vehicles were having problems.....

[kballowe]

I was working in a cycle shop circa 1980.  It was 18 miles to town and a brand new bike would occasionally lock up before making it that distance.  Let it cool off and it would be fine.  The story was that these Japanese bikes had close tolerances and that it was caused by running too hard before being properly broke in - that fast and uneven cylinder heating was the cause.

A Marvel Mystery oil salesman came by one day and told the boss that 4 or 5 capfuls in each gas tank on these new motorcycles would cure this problem.  The boss bought a case.

I don't know if it actually worked but we never had another bike lock up after that.

[SIR REAL ED]

I was working in a cycle shop circa 1980.  It was 18 miles to town and a brand new bike would occasionally lock up before making it that distance.  Let it cool off and it would be fine.  The story was that these Japanese bikes had close tolerances and that it was caused by running too hard before being properly broke in - that fast and uneven cylinder heating was the cause.

A Marvel Mystery oil salesman came by one day and told the boss that 4 or 5 capfuls in each gas tank on these new motorcycles would cure this problem.  The boss bought a case.

I don't know if it actually worked but we never had another bike lock up after that.

The first time I tried out the Amsoil 100:1 two stroke oil, I was nervous.  I thought: "Really?  Am I being an idiot?  1.25 ounces of oil per gallon of gas looks like nothing!  Especially when you are used to 20:1 ratios." 

But lots of positive customers reviews were out there, so I gave it a shot.  It always worked great on any Stihl or Lawn Boy I used it on.  I even ran it in my trials bikes.

Fascinating to see the different mixture ratio recommendations.

Modern chemistry is amazing.

[Perazzimx14]

The first time I tried out the Amsoil 100:1 two stroke oil, I was nervous.  I thought: "Really?  Am I being an idiot?  1.25 ounces of oil per gallon of gas looks like nothing!  Especially when you are used to 20:1 ratios." 

But lots of positive customers reviews were out there, so I gave it a shot.  It always worked great on any Stihl or Lawn Boy I used it on.  I even ran it in my trials bikes.

Fascinating to see the different mixture ratio recommendations.

Modern chemistry is amazing.

If only it had the intoxicating aroma of Caster 927

[Vagrant]

100-1 is OK in a Stihl or any high quality two stroke engine. Just remember some hit 14000 RPM. Some of the older junkier saws etc didn't have good bearings and will fail. The Lawn boy runs too low of an RPM to care and they really plug ports and mufflers at 40-1 or 32-1.

[Bulldog9]

The first time I tried out the Amsoil 100:1 two stroke oil, I was nervous.  I thought: "Really?  Am I being an idiot?  1.25 ounces of oil per gallon of gas looks like nothing!  Especially when you are used to 20:1 ratios." 

But lots of positive customers reviews were out there, so I gave it a shot.  It always worked great on any Stihl or Lawn Boy I used it on.  I even ran it in my trials bikes.

Fascinating to see the different mixture ratio recommendations.

Modern chemistry is amazing.

I bought new Stihl Chainsaw, Backpack Blower in 2010. I use the Platinum s stroke oil. No idea what the ratio is, I just know it is one little bottle to 1 gallon of fuel. Interestingly, both of these though 2 stroke also have oil in the crankcase. No idea what or why, but they work perfectly. I've not done a thing but fuel and use.  Yeah, I'm a savage...........

I used to add a bit of MMO to the fuel, but now use Seafoam exclusively. Despite that goofy guy at Fortnine, It does it all and has served me well for 30+ years. Counteracts ethanol, deals with moisture, cleans carbon, lubricates fuel pumps, and stabilizes fuel for up to a year.

I also have used it when buying a new to me car to clean out varnish and sludge in a motor.  I rescued a mid 80's Cutlass 442 from sitting. It had a terrible sticky lifter problem, and despite multiple oil changes, thinner synthetic, driving the whee out of it and long trips, it always tapped when cold. Tried MMO to no avail. Finally I dumped a quart of Seafoam in, started and let it idle for an hour or two, then a couple quick drives. After about 50 miles, I drained it and never had a problem again. Sold it 8 years ago, and the guy I sold to says the problem has not returned.

Cold weather makes everything sound weird. My Tundra sounds like a Diesel until oil temps come up. I hate it and it drives my crazy, but after 120K miles, the Intellectual Navigation is easier.

[SIR REAL ED]

I bought new Stihl Chainsaw, Backpack Blower in 2010. I use the Platinum s stroke oil. No idea what the ratio is, I just know it is one little bottle to 1 gallon of fuel. Interestingly, both of these though 2 stroke also have oil in the crankcase. No idea what or why, but they work perfectly. I've not done a thing but fuel and use.  Yeah, I'm a savage...........

I used to add a bit of MMO to the fuel, but now use Seafoam exclusively. Despite that goofy guy at Fortnine, It does it all and has served me well for 30+ years. Counteracts ethanol, deals with moisture, cleans carbon, lubricates fuel pumps, and stabilizes fuel for up to a year.

I also have used it when buying a new to me car to clean out varnish and sludge in a motor.  I rescued a mid 80's Cutlass 442 from sitting. It had a terrible sticky lifter problem, and despite multiple oil changes, thinner synthetic, driving the whee out of it and long trips, it always tapped when cold. Tried MMO to no avail. Finally I dumped a quart of Seafoam in, started and let it idle for an hour or two, then a couple quick drives. After about 50 miles, I drained it and never had a problem again. Sold it 8 years ago, and the guy I sold to says the problem has not returned.

Cold weather makes everything sound weird. My Tundra sounds like a Diesel until oil temps come up. I hate it and it drives my crazy, but after 120K miles, the Intellectual Navigation is easier.

The Stihl standard ratio is 50:1.  If you buy a new Stihl, and also buy a six pack of their platinum oil, Stihl will double your warranty from 1 year to 2 years.  I have also run Stihl platinum oil with no problems.

Some of the Stihls are indeed four strokes (including one of my leaf blowers and a weed eaters).  They definitely sound different than the two stroke Stihls.  I do not think any of them have a separate oil supply in the crankcase (IIRC). Although they do have valves whose clearance needs to be check and set after about 150 hours IIRC,

My understanding is they are four strokes to meet emission standards.

A neat concept, a fourstroke lubricated via two stroke gas/oil mixture.

[YellowDuck]

I hate all of you so much.

[SIR REAL ED]

It would be an interesting experiment.  Use a air cooled lawn mower or water pump for consistency. 
With a crankshaft mounted fan and cylinder/head shrouds the air cooling should be a constant as possible. 
The water pump would be a constant load.  the lawn mower could just spin the blade and "pump air" for a constant load.
Run at maximum constant rpm, and see if a spark plug mounted temperature sensor records any temperature difference between standard straight gas and a two stroke gas/oil mixture. 
Maybe an difference in engine rpm may also be measurable.
 

[SIR REAL ED]

If only it had the intoxicating aroma of Caster 927

A buddy of mine who is s hard core gear head, rides hard enduro on a KTM 300.  He recently tested an oil that is supposedly an exceptional lubricant.

But the real reason he switched is the smell is outstanding!!!

He said "It's nuts to run an oil just because of the smell, but this stuff is amazing."

I thought, that will be the next era of marketing.  Oil with doe estrous that raises your testosterone!

I'll see if he remembers the manufacturers.

[SIR REAL ED]

I'm hoping Huzo reads this thread and decides to to do some high speed testing in the Aussie desert for us.

It is summertime down under I am told.....

[Ncdan]

Well I can report back if the effects of the MMO on my top end rattle.
And the answer is……………it’s much quieter at idle as well as on the road……….with my headphones on and playing
“ if your sweetheart, leaves you all alone and nobody calls you on the phone,  don’t you feel like crying?”
😂
However I’ve only been around 25-30 miles and the instructions says could take from 50-200.
So I’ll report back in the future 👍

[n3303j]

<SNIP> I do not think any of them have a separate oil supply in the crankcase (IIRC). Although they do have valves whose clearance needs to be check and set after about 150 hours IIRC,

My understanding is they are four strokes to meet emission standards.

A neat concept, a fourstroke lubricated via two stroke gas/oil mixture.

Normal 2 Stroke passes the oily fuel mixture over every moving part.
Normal 4 stroke only passes fuel through the combustion chamber.
The whole lower end doesn't see much fuel.
I could imagine a 4 stroke with splash lube in the crankcase and oil/gas running through the combustion zone. But wouldn't the oil in the gas put the emissions back up beyond acceptable? I thought one of the reasons for going 4 stroke was to reduce noise level?

[guzziart]