What is a Moto Guzzi?

[SIR REAL ED]

A bit of a parallel/piggyback thread to Luap's thread:

Us old farts can remember when a Honda was a four stroke.  When Suzuki's, Yamaha's, & Kawasaki's were two strokes.  When Harley's were air-cooled. V-twins.

So when does a Moto Guzzi badged bike stop being a "real Moto Guzzi" and become a bike that you would not consider buying?

Is it based on hardware?  Country of origin?  Or a more nebulous sense of feel?

Enquiring minds want to know!!

[guzzisteve]

A Guzzi  is all made in Italy the whole bike. A REAL ONE that is, different than the Piaggio models

[Perazzimx14]

A Guzzi  is all made in Italy the whole bike. A REAL ONE that is, different than the Piaggio models

If this is the matrix then a “real” Moto Guzzi cannot exist.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

If this is the matrix then a “real” Moto Guzzi cannot exist.

There was a time (up until about 1971) when a Moto Guzzi was made of completely Italian sourced components.

[MotoG5]

I bought my first Guzzi in 1972. An 850 Eldorado. From that time on until the present day I have always owned Guzzis only. I consider them all to be "real" Guzzis. I am riding a 2017 V9 Bobber. It is most likely going to be my last bike.
I can see how collectors may sort the total production of machines based on different interests or opinions. But to a life long rider like me all that mattered were the sounds, feel and the ride.

[Perazzimx14]

There was a time (up until about 1971) when a Moto Guzzi was made of completely Italian sourced components.

I never realized Italy was so self sufficient in the production of steel, aluminum, copper, lead rubber, fuels, oils paints, etc.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

I never realized Italy was so self sufficient in the production of steel, aluminum, copper, lead rubber, fuels, oils paints, etc.

Well now you're just being ridiculous...  Read what I wrote: "completely Italian sourced components".

[faffi]

I am agnostic when it comes to bike brands and nation of origin. What I find important is that the bike I buy has a combination of price, function, reliability and looks that I find attractive. There are no brands I would not consider, but there are brands that so far have not made bikes I would consider. I have owned Hondas, Kawasakis, Suzukis, Yamahas, a couple of Guzzis and Triumphs and a BMW as well as a Temp. The only bike (actually a moped) that was plain terrible was the Norwegian made Tempo Panter 50.

And finally I am going to somewhat answer the question from the thread starter; I would still consider buying a Guzzi made in China or where-ever as long as the product appealed to me, even if it did not have a single part made in Italy. I buy products, not heritage. 

[Kev m]

Is Guzzi 55 years ago really relevant in any way, shape, or form when talking about the state of manufacturing today?

[johnwesley]

What’s a Guzzi?

If we’re being technical, a Moto Guzzi is whatever rolls out of Mandello del Lario with that eagle on the tank. Singles. The wild V8. Big block twins. Sport bikes, cruisers, roadsters. If the factory built it, it’s a Guzzi. Period.

But that’s not really what you’re asking.

For me, it comes down to why you ride in the first place. I’m not fiercely brand loyal. I buy on feel, looks, and function. And if I’m honest, I don’t enjoy pulling into an event and having to stare at a row of identical black bikes trying to figure out which one is mine. I like odd. I like mechanical character. I like a bike that talks back a little.

That’s where the old Tonti-frame bikes hit home for me — the stance, the way they torque over at idle, the sound. I’d call myself a Tonti guy. But then again, I really enjoy the Quota too. I had a Breva — good bike, fun bike — just didn’t fit how I like to ride. Meanwhile there’s a Yamaha Ténéré 700 in the garage for when I want “ride it and forget it” reliability regardless of terrain. Different tool, different purpose.

So what’s a Guzzi?

Factory answer: whatever they build.

Rider answer: the one that scratches that itch in your gut when you thumb the starter.

Not every bike with Guzzi on the tank will do that for me. But when one does, I don’t need a spec sheet to explain it.

[SIR REAL ED]

I am agnostic when it comes to bike brands and nation of origin. What I find important is that the bike I buy has a combination of price, function, reliability and looks that I find attractive. There are no brands I would not consider, but there are brands that so far have not made bikes I would consider. I have owned Hondas, Kawasakis, Suzukis, Yamahas, a couple of Guzzis and Triumphs and a BMW as well as a Temp. The only bike (actually a moped) that was plain terrible was the Norwegian made Tempo Panter 50.

And finally I am going to somewhat answer the question from the thread starter; I would still consider buying a Guzzi made in China or where-ever as long as the product appealed to me, even if it did not have a single part made in Italy. I buy products, not heritage.

I think much the same.  For that reason, I am considering buying another KTM Duke 690.  A purely functional motorcycle that is like no other bike out there.  Light, flickable, and with power characteristics, that if blindfolded, many riders would think it is a 1000cc air cooled twin engine.

Then I think back to my ownership experience, and the bike is lacking in charm and character.  Plus it is butt ugly.  Maybe some cobalt blue paint.....

[Yan]

A Moto Guzzi has to be a motorcycle made in Italy, with a Moto Guzzi name on the tank but, most importantly, has to offer a few quirky elements that are considered old-fashioned (e.g. an air-cooled V-twin engine) and/or unusual (e.g. a shaft-drive, or e.g. the Mandello's exhausts sticking out from the cylinders at the sides), and/or ugly (e.g. the Centauro is my favourite Guzzi, but most people consider this model f-ugly), and/or odd (the Mandello's "adaptive aerodynamic air deflector"). In other words a Moto Guzzi has to be a motorcycle that can not appeal to most people. This is its strength and its weakness.  Is the rumoured new spy-shotted light-weight chain-driven retro-styled motorcycle with a 457cc-Aprilia parallel twin engine a true Moto Guzzi?  No, most likely not.  Unless the final version looks so strange that it will scare away most potential buyers.  Then it is a Moto Guzzi.   

[Gliderjohn]

There was a time (up until about 1971) when a Moto Guzzi was made of completely Italian sourced components.

IMHO that was not always a good thing. Think electronics and early years of what little plastic they used along with quick rot rubber components Oh yea, some of the Cali models that had the rear tail/brake like bracket failures at a young age. Purebred is not always the best.
GliderJohn

[guzzisteve]

On that note, I worked on a few that were Benelli's rebadged in the 80's.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

IMHO that was not always a good thing. Think electronics and early years of what little plastic they used along with quick rot rubber components Oh yea, some of the Cali models that had the rear tail/brake like bracket failures at a young age. Purebred is not always the best.
GliderJohn

Re. the Ambassador: Varta batteries were good quality, as were the Magnetti Marelli starter, generator and voltage regulator. CEV switch gear and fuseblock left a bit to be desired, but if not overloaded (60/55 headlight fitted without adding relays) they too would last virtually forever. Boranni rims among the best. Pirelli MT53 tires were decent in period. Whoever supplied their rubber bits had the code cracked - when I restore one, most of it is reusable.

When De Tomaso took over lots of cost cutting happened. 

[Perazzimx14]

What is a Triumph made in Thailand is or a KTM with a motor manufactured in China? Is Benelli or Moto Morini Italian or Chinese?

[Walton]

I never realized Italy was so self sufficient in the production of steel, aluminum, copper, lead rubber, fuels, oils paints, etc.

It was, and still is.  Innocenti had some of the best steel mills in the world, lechler paint, pirelli, eni group for petroleum products etc.

A friend brings in modern furniture from italy and told me that US customs wants to know not only the source of each piece but where the wood was grown and harvested and where the aluminum used was extruded/processed, etc.  It's all easy for him because these materials are 100% italian origin.

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

A Moto Guzzi is a motorcycle sold under the badge of the trademark owner.

There are a lot of vehicles out there where people say X isn't a real Y. If Y put their brand identity on it, then it is.

[kingoffleece]

Dunno.  Not sure where the line is but I'm pretty well convinced that Indian motorcycles are not INDIAN motorcycles.  A new BSA is not a BSA.  I think(?)  there needs to be some sort of connection with the original but I really can't say for sure.  Still mulling the entire thing around.  It's all so very confusing.......... ......

[faffi]

And what about Hondas and Kawasakis made in USA or Mexico or Thailand? Harleys made in Asia? Cars being manufactured all over the globe and has been for at least 50 years? Personally, I think the badge says what it is, but people are free to think of them as "not the real deal" if they want.

[SIR REAL ED]

And what about Hondas and Kawasakis made in USA or Mexico or Thailand? Harleys made in Asia? Cars being manufactured all over the globe and has been for at least 50 years? Personally, I think the badge says what it is, but people are free to think of them as "not the real deal" if they want.

Yep!

Just like the old saying "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder!"

If Joe wants to view his Honda 305 as a mini Laverda 750, no one can convince him otherwise.

Of course, Luigi might take offense if Joe says that Luigi's Laverda 750 is really a Honda 305.

And, if we have learned nothing else from our education at Wild Guzzi University (is WCU's mascot a pizzaiolo?), it is "my" inkblots are always better than the "other guy's" inkblots!