The problem with old bikes

[faffi]

- is that they are old. And here Guzzi big twins and BMW airheads have something going for them compared to just about every other motorcycle out there, although I probably should include Harley as well.

What they offer is a product constant that make it easy to find parts and keep the bikes going decade after decade. Meaning that if you want a motorcycle from the 60s or later that is reliable and functional enough that it can be used daily and overhauled and/or repaired easily if and when needed, these are generally the most sensible ones to go for. Although one (I, at least) can argue that bikes from Japan generally are better made and more sophisticated, they typically suffer frequent replacement by entirely new designs, meaning parts can be difficult to source at a respectable price. There are exceptions, but then you need to know what you are looking for.

[guzzisteve]

From what I noticed there is no problem with older Guzzi's only ones AFTER Aprillia & Piaggio ownership. other brands I really don't care about.

[nwguy]

I've recently realized how serious shops not repairing or even maintaining bikes older than 10 years is. Craigslist and FB marketplace are flooded with bikes well over 10 years old with less than 20k miles on them. I spoke with 2 shops recently and they both verified that they generally don't work on 10+ year old bikes, or at best it's on a case by case basis. I understand why; parts availability, brittle plastic and rubber, generally poor condition. But most motorcyclists (not MG people) do limited work on their bikes. I know you can find independent shops, but that can be hard far from home. Motorcycles are seeming more and more disposable these days.

[Vagrant]

Just wait until they say they can't fix your 10 YO $70,000. car because none of the electronic components are available. 

[nwguy]

Just wait until they say they can't fix your 10 YO $70,000. car because none of the electronic components are available.

That's exactly what I've been thinking. I know auto shops already have some kind of limit or do repairs on a case by case basis, but if it's profitable for motorcycle dealers to do this, auto dealers must be hot on their heels. My wife drives a 1999 Camry. Our mechanic says "cheap to own, cheap to fix". But parts for a Camry are easy to find.

[faffi]

It's at least 25 years ago that Ford said their cars where designed for an 8-year life.

[SIR REAL ED]

It's at least 25 years ago that Ford said their cars where designed for an 8-year life.

It becomes an interesting engineering/design problem.  If the average owner updates every 5-6 years, then designing a car that lasts longer than that is adding value and utility that many buyers will not appreciate, benefit from, or be willing to pay for.

Very similar to internet communication regarding someone getting offended, the buyer always determines what a "good design" is.

I think the same applies to many consumer items like clothes, or shoes.  Housing may be the best example.  An industrial ball valve will last forever, kitchen or bathroom faucets designed for looks, not so long.  Few people choose to live in Quonset huts.  Probably due to resale problems.

As other threads have pointed out, OEM's have little concern for design to make maintenance easy, since most buyers do not perform their own maintenance anymore.

Same for me and computers.

Let's face it.  Many of us are outside of the bell curve.  Those who have not lived thru the Great Depression or two World Wars or who grew up poor, have different ideas of durable than other ancestors.

On the plus side, there are always older vehicles available to buy and drive.  In my town, there is a cobbler's shop.  They stay very busy.

[SIR REAL ED]

Back to the original thread.  Old bikes don't have problems, only opportunities!

[blu guzz]

Our connected world is a double edged sword.  On the one hand, it brings us plenty of negative things.  However, it has made connecting with people you want to connect with easier as well as support of hobbies such as finding parts for old bikes.  You no longer have to subscribe and wait for a print magazine, you can generally find what you are looking for very quickly now.  This does not eliminate problems that have always existed regarding trustworthyness of sellers, but we have always had to make those decisions.
I hope we will continue to see great restorations of all manner of bikes and cars for decades to come.

[SIR REAL ED]

It's at least 25 years ago that Ford said their cars where designed for an 8-year life.

I hear you!

More than once I have thought:  "Why not buy something like this?  It is easy to work on, and will last the rest of my life!  Plus it is cheaper than a new vehicle!"

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/724053250093809/?ref=saved&referral_code=null

[MikeP996]

It's interesting that in many cases, parts for old vehicles are EASIER to find now than they were when the vehicles were in production.  For example, you could build a complete 1973 Norton Commando with new, readily available parts and have them in a few days.  Though not quite the same level of "all parts,", almost anything you would normally need is equally available for my '76 Honda CB400F.  Same is true for many "classic" cars.

Of course, as noted, modern vehicles with their computerized systems are problematic simply because the systems change so quickly.  It would be very difficult for any company to have all replacement electronics on hand for vehicles more than say 10 years old.  As an example, my wife's car (2022) was recently in for a service and, in casual conversation, the tech mentioned that there were 95 different sensors in the car's electronics.  The 2026 version has 140 and many of them are not interchangeable with the '22, even when they are serving what appears to be the same function. 

[Perazzimx14]

I've recently realized how serious shops not repairing or even maintaining bikes older than 10 years is. Craigslist and FB marketplace are flooded with bikes well over 10 years old with less than 20k miles on them. I spoke with 2 shops recently and they both verified that they generally don't work on 10+ year old bikes, or at best it's on a case by case basis. I understand why; parts availability, brittle plastic and rubber, generally poor condition. But most motorcyclists (not MG people) do limited work on their bikes. I know you can find independent shops, but that can be hard far from home. Motorcycles are seeming more and more disposable these days.

I get why shops have a cutoff. At around 10 years of age the bike is careening towards the bottom of its value. Now take that bike to a shop that has a labor rate of $100 an hour for some work and in short order you are approaching the value of the bike in labor and materials w/o increasing the value of the bike by one red cent. Hand an owner a $1,000 or $1500+ bill for a bike that is only worth a couple of grand and they will recoil. Then add in the fact that is no shortage of newer bikes to work it makes working on older stuff all the less attractive.

I would also imagine technicians and what they are trained on play a roll in this as well. I don't imagine many shops invest in training new technicians on old technology.

[Vagrant]

In Tucson the shop rate is about $200. with shop supplies. I hear $250+ for cars in Chicago.

[Perazzimx14]

In Tucson the shop rate is about $200. with shop supplies. I hear $250+ for cars in Chicago.

of tires

Imagine taking in a a 2016 V7 for a clutch replacement that takes 8 hours (probably more) of shop time. You have superseded the value of the bike before you rolled in on the lift.

Oil/water cooled BMW Boxers its not uncommon for a clutch replacement (Hex/Cam) or stator (water cooled) to be in the $4,500/$5,000 range if you have a dealer do it. Heck its nothing to spend $700+ on a set of tires at the dealership.

I am glad I can and and more importantly want to do most stuff myself when it comes to motorcycles.

I guess to answer: What's the problem with old bikes? Their value!

[faffi]

IMO, if you have a normal income, the only way to justify owning old vehicles for daily use is to fix them yourself.

[yrunvs]

I'm just hoping the computer in my bike doesn't brick up like my laptops seem to do every few years.

[guzzisteve]

I'm just hoping the computer in my bike doesn't brick up like my laptops seem to do every few years.

Which bike, they been pretty good.

[guzzisteve]

IMO, if you have a normal income, the only way to justify owning old vehicles for daily use is to fix them yourself.

I found a kid to come for $100, got all diag for my Jeep, otherwise I do it. My retirement Jeep, not buying anything else. Hell, I was DOA 3 mo ago, what else would I buy w/7Guzzi's I'll stick w/non Chinese stuff

[Gliderjohn]

It can be a dilemma. For some years I had both the 8V Norge and my T-3. Yea, I couldn't do much more than fluid changes on the Norge but after it's first year of sorting things out it was bullet proof after that. If I rode the T-3 only I would be thinking, damn this is still a nice ride, but then get on the Norge and think THIS IS A NICE RIDE! For feeding the ego the T-3 is the clear winner. Regularly attracts lookers with questions and complements.They both are what they are and both have been great bikes to enjoy.
GliderJohn

[Moparnut72]

I sold my Mandello late last summer. Just wasn't working for me, complexity was one of the reasons I sold it. I replaced it with a V7 850. Mucho bedda, klnd of a middle roader. Electronic features I like and need, cruise control mainly due to my messed up right hand. It is a fantastic bike, however I am really looking forward to finishing my T3. Figuring out wiring a new diode board and solid state regulator is the current issue. Original harnesses, I have/had two, both were hacked up and in poor condition so I am doing mostly new custom wiring.
kk

[Bulldog9]

Granted I have not had to do MAJOR work on any of my bikes, but between some specialty vendors like Mikes XS, MG Cycle, Harpers, etc, I've been able to find all the parts I've needed for my aging small fleet. I do worry about finding starters, stators, bearings, clutches and the Torque Convertor (Convert) but will cross that bridge when I need, and Ebay is always a good backup, as are the Forums. There is always some old coot with a box of parts.....

But old is relative.  At 19, I don't think my 2007 Griso is old, but I do think my 76 Convert, 78 XS750, and 79 XS1100 are old.

Speaking of old(ish) the 1200 Sport and Breva 750 are all ready to be traded in next week towards a NEW 2023 V85 TT...... Also stripped the ADV parts off the Stornello as I return it to street scrambler mode..... Hope to take pics today of all the racks and bags I'm going to offer up for sale.

I'll miss these two, but I rarely ride them, and only put 100 miles on the B750 over 3 years as I bought it for my wife. Because I have the Griso and Norge, the 1200 Sport got ONE ride last year.

It's hard to believe the Stornello is 10 years old.......... Where does the time go? Hope to get new tires mounted on it, then lower the front fender back down, and enjoy it as a fun little day tripper.













As this is about OLD bikes, I have to leave this post with a picture of my OLDEST bike...... Love this thing............

[Bulldog9]

IMO, if you have a normal income, the only way to justify owning old vehicles for daily use is to fix them yourself.

I've been saying this for years. People look at me crosseyed when they find out about my little fleet, but I've been wrenching on my own stuff since I was 17. I could NEVER afford what I have if I didn't do all the work myself. I also have huge trust issues, and don't want to put one of my vehicles in the hands of shaved apes. So it is a win-win. I save huge $$ and know the work is done right. I even do some 'warranty' work on my own.

But I don't do my work for financial reasons alone. The MAIN reason is I enjoy it.  Back when my kids were young, $$ was tight, etc., I had two bikes. One was apart all year as I tinkered, repaired, upgraded, cleaned, serviced, etc., and I ride the other, and the next year would swap them.

[Tusayan]

My newest bike is a 2020 V85TT, and its also my least favorite of 9 bikes. On my two last rides I took that bike and then my ‘92 R100GS, and after returning on the GS I asked myself “why am I keeping that thing” (and I wasn’t referring to the old GS).  The answer BTW was that the TT has really good luggage, the best thing about it.

Meanwhile my goal at the moment is to find the right Laverda triple.  I have slowly, progressively lost any interest in newer bikes.  I mostly do my own work on the old ones, finding it therapeutic although time consuming but I have one guy I trust to help with some jobs.  That helps, but the problem is that he’s busy.

Re cars I have a new goal that amazingly enough to me involves getting a (new) C8 Corvette and driving it with my wife around the country for a couple of months.  It was her idea, to do it like a motorcycle tour but faster and with better weather protection, and while it’s an expensive idea I like it.   The idea is to do the trip in about three years from now, keep the car for a couple of years after the tour, with warranty intact, then sell it and replace it with a classic car that will take me into old age.  New stuff has to go before it starts to decompose.

[Bulldog9]

My newest bike is a 2020 V85TT, and its also my least favorite of 9 bikes. On my two last rides I took that bike and then my ‘92 R100GS, and after returning on the GS I asked myself “why am I keeping that thing” (and I wasn’t referring to the old GS).  The answer BTW was that the TT has really good luggage, the best thing about it.

Meanwhile my goal at the moment is to find the right Laverda triple.  I have slowly, progressively lost any interest in newer bikes.  I mostly do my own work on the old ones, finding it therapeutic although time consuming but I have one guy I trust to help with some jobs.  That helps, but the problem is that he’s busy.

Re cars I have a new goal that amazingly enough to me involves getting a (new) C8 Corvette and driving it with my wife around the country for a couple of months.  It was her idea, to do it like a motorcycle tour but faster and with better weather protection, and while it’s an expensive idea I like it.   The idea is to do the trip in about three years from now, keep the car for a couple of years after the tour, with warranty intact, then sell it and replace it with a classic car that will take me into old age.  New stuff has to go before it starts to decompose.

The C8 would be a terrible choice for any kind of cross-country touring. Be prepared to have your luggage melted if you put it in the rear trunk. There is no storage within the cabin, and the front trunk is a joke. It's an amazing car, and punches way above its price range, but it's really not a Great car for anything other than the track or going to cars and coffee and local day trips.

Plus: It's not any more Corvette than the Mach E is a Mustang. A Corvette is a front engine rear-wheel drive American classic. Chevy should have done with the c8 What Ford did with the GT40. A car marketed and sold at an echelon above the GT500 Fords TOP Mustang model. In fact, I think you'd be better served going for a Mustang GT500 or Mach 1 over a C8 for a cross-country tour with your wife. REAL trunk, very comfortable, But you do you......

If you insist on doing this in a Corvette,  do yourself a favor and get a C7. You're welcome.

But if you really want to enjoy this ride, go for a Cayman or 911.

[guzzisteve]

Ha, for some reason I have no issue w/older, my newest is my 98EV then to an 86 Cal2 , 84LM2, then 69,68, 67

[MerleLowe]

IMO, if you have a normal income, the only way to justify owning old vehicles for daily use is to fix them yourself.

Guess that depends on what is normal.  Where I am, the household income is 70% of the national average.  People of "normal" income here just keep the cars patched up just enough to make it till tomorrow. If that don't work, it's off to the buy here pay here lot.  lol  Go to Walmart and see a worn out Plymounth Sundance with duct tape holding the drivers window up next to somebody's new 100+K F-Somethingoranother cowboy Cadillac.  A funny contrast.

I can say if it were not for the fact that I work on my own stuff I would be too broke to have any motorcycles.  Between vehicle and house maintenance I'd have nothing left if I paid other people to do my work for me.

[guzzisteve]

It doesn't cost anything to take them apart, only to put them together. One reason I have more apart than running.

[Tusayan]

The C8 would be a terrible choice for any kind of cross-country touring. Be prepared to have your luggage melted if you put it in the rear trunk. There is no storage within the cabin, and the front trunk is a joke. It's an amazing car, and punches way above its price range, but it's really not a Great car for anything other than the track or going to cars and coffee and local day trips.

Plus: It's not any more Corvette than the Mach E is a Mustang. A Corvette is a front engine rear-wheel drive American classic. Chevy should have done with the c8 What Ford did with the GT40. A car marketed and sold at an echelon above the GT500 Fords TOP Mustang model. In fact, I think you'd be better served going for a Mustang GT500 or Mach 1 over a C8 for a cross-country tour with your wife. REAL trunk, very comfortable, But you do you......

If you insist on doing this in a Corvette,  do yourself a favor and get a C7. You're welcome.

But if you really want to enjoy this ride, go for a Cayman or 911.

My wife is German born and raised… she likes the C8 because it’s American and she really dislikes Porsches.  I don’t much like them either.  She might go for the Mustang but I find it boring.

My own interest in the C8 is that it’s not much like a traditional Corvette and more like an Italian exotic without so much of the nonsense.  I like the C7 for its manual transmission but otherwise it’s not a car that I’d want to own.

The C8 convertible has more useable trunk space than the coupe with the top stowed, and given that our normal touring routine is on a Ducati ST or similar, it’s plenty of room for us. 

[wirespokes]

My wife is German born and raised… she likes the C8 because it’s American and she really dislikes Porsches.  I don’t much like them either.  She might go for the Mustang but I find it boring.

My own interest in the C8 is that it’s not much like a traditional Corvette and more like an Italian exotic without so much of the nonsense.  I like the C7 for its manual transmission but otherwise it’s not a car that I’d want to own.

The C8 convertible has more useable trunk space than the coupe with the top stowed, and given that our normal touring routine is on a Ducati ST or similar, it’s plenty of room for us.

Pull a bike trailer on a bumper hitch. Pop up camper?

[John A]

It doesn't cost anything to take them apart, only to put them together. One reason I have more apart than running.

Yep, you’ll find things that were working but it would be foolish not to freshen them up when you’re in there.
As things age they become harder to take apart because of decayed fasteners, modifications which all add time and material.