Cali 1400 clutch replacement

[Johan]

As the title says.
at 80000+ km it seems my clutch is due replacement. A strong smell like burned brakepads after a short acceleration gave it away.

I have done most work on the 1400 by myself but this seems to be a more complicated job.
I did the clutch disc change on a cali III using the frame crabbing technique.
I did the alternator belt on the 1400.

But somehow i'm a bit scared to start this one. I can follow the service manual, but there it is in the chapter "block on the bench". Is that the recommended procedure or is it possible to use a similar approach as with the Cali III, (remove the gearbox while leaving the block in the frame)
Any hints, suggestions? And also perhaps a "do this while you are in there"

I tried to find another thread covering this but no luck (or bad search term)

TIA,

Johan

[TN Mark]

There’s a German YouTube channel, Moto Schaueber (?). That’s the only channel I found that shows how to work on a 1400. You can get English subtitles and/or dubbed English on most of his videos.

That’s being said, if the rubber hangers are unbolted from either the frame or the engine, what stops the frame from being removed up and over the engine? Just like any Tonti framed Guzzi would be done.

I have not done this. But, what I envision is supporting the engine, disconnecting the frame, rear, shocks, wiring, swingarm pins, gas line, etc. lifting off the frame with the front wheel still attached. Literally, rolling everything out of the way. Leaving the engine, transmission, swing arm and rear wheel still intact.

This may not be possible, but from watching every one of those German videos, it sure seems possible.

[guzzisteve]

It doesn't crab like a Tonti, even with all the built it bull crap you don't need loosened up. Do what utube shows & do a movie of your own. Make money. Good luck

[TN Mark]

Thank you Steve. But, serious question: why can't you 'crab' the 1400 frame off the engine/transmission?

When the 1400s were going down the assembly line, was the frame lowered onto the engine/transmission or was the engine/transmission lifted up into the frame?

[Johan]

@steve, I'm not sure you understood my question. I am aware it does not crab as it is not a tonti frame.

[Bill W]

I haven't changed a clutch on my 1400 but I did pull the engine/tranny on my wrecked one and BOY was that a project. The whole damn bike had to come apart and that was following the manual on how to do it.

[guzzisteve]

What Bill says, it is so labor intensive even to try & crab that you should just pull out engine. In other words it takes more time to try and crab it than remove it. This is what the school was teaching when I went to CA in 09. Now they have no more school, just video's they send.
I have not done a clutch on a 1400, only CARC 1200 & 1100's. I have no interest in doing one.
I would think it is cheaper to get a different bike. Dealer quoted $3,000 to change a V7 clutch @ $180 per hr

[TN Mark]

Thank you Steve, now I understand.

Johan, sorry for the thread drift on how to get to the clutch. I haven’t done a clutch on a 1400 either. Just a couple of older 1100 Tonti framed bikes. That being said, I’d follow the manual.
I’ve also not seen a Moto Guzzi video on how to change anything on a 1400. Though I’d like to watch all the videos they have available.

You clearly have the skills since you’ve already changed the alternator belt.

[Johan]

I have have time, but also a deadline. And i known i'm going to miss it. Maybe not by taking the bike apart if it would go according to the manual. But you don't know what you're going to need in advance. And like most here I always find out i need a specific wrench or something i do not have to loosen up that one single bolt. And then there are these parts that need replacement that i do not have on the shelf. So most of the time passes by waiting for parts/tools not the wrenching itself.

I'm lucky to live not too far away from TLM in Netherlands, but even they do not have every single part in stock
So, a 13 year old bike, one of the first 1400' produced (nr 111158) with almost 90000km on the clock. Too expensive to have it fixed by a workshop.
It still runs well, but the clutch slips occasionally when driving with 2 and going full throttle at from 4000rpm.

Saw a nice Stelvio in the showroom today :-)

[guzzisteve]

What you will need that will give you an issue is the bolts holding it together. Button head allen that round out so you use a die grinder on them. Then they just unscrew with piers. 6 per and I bought 100 used 6 and kept 7 shipped the rest to Jim Hamlin free. He needs them more than I doing customs.
Dealers here don't have any, neither does Guzzi warehouse. Guzzi's are not built user friendly like once were.

Here is a thought, call Stefan, the guy who makes custom parts & drag races them. Ask him if there is a shortcut to the process, like crabbing. I don't think so but who knows (Stephan will know) from working on them. I think he is Radical Guzzi, worked for his dad. Enjoy

 https://us-en.radicalspeedshop.com/

[Pescatore]

What you will need that will give you an issue is the bolts holding it together. Button head allen that round out so you use a die grinder on them. Then they just unscrew with piers.

I had a similar problem.
A dealer told me they use grip edge tools. They have sharp edges that thread in as you unscrew.  They wiil scratch the screw head some.
Pricey!

[TN Mark]

Definitely have a rear seal on hand as, you’re their anyway.

[Tom H]

Gripedge allen sockets do seem to work well on the cheese class button heads fasteners. 3, 4, 5mm 1/4" drive are my main ones for the small fasteners on Guzzi that always seem to round out. Also have a set of 3/8 drive long up to 10mm. Expensive, but I think worth it. The 3, 1/4" drives are about $30 direct. No one seems to sell singles, only sets.

Tom

[TN Mark]

I didn’t know Grip Edge was a product so I looked them up on Amazon. A nice low protest at $129 will be inbound soon.

Thank you for the education.

[Johan]

That gripe-edge stuff is expensive. Wish i knew about it before i tried to remove the brake disk bolts on my Daytona. (wanted to have the rims re-done) These things did not even come out after heating them with a torch and rounded up nicely. Hammered a torx bit in, but als to no avail.

So' as soon as i find a supplier that ships from europe i'll put an order in for the 3/8 " set.

Mark, thanks for the main seal tip. Since the clutch did not slip while i was testing it (cold after 2km) and did slip while testing it with a pilion (but warm after 100km) I may have drawn the wrong conclusion. In any case the work will be the same. I assume also the pushrod seals should be changed while the gearbox is on the bench.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Roper says it's a tough job and you *may* not need to do it. PM me and I'll give you his address for more info.

[Vagrant]

Does it have a hydraulic clutch? If so is the reservoir too full?

[Johan]

it's nice weather here. And I own a house with a garden. So that means that the motorcycling related activities always have to compete with house maintenance and working in the garden. Unfortunately the house maintenance won this time, painting the gate, doors and windows. The 1400 is on the lift waiting patiently for attention. Which gives me some time to reflect on all the (sometimes contradicting) symptoms. So work has not stopped. Just waiting.

[Ncdan]

it's nice weather here. And I own a house with a garden. So that means that the motorcycling related activities always have to compete with house maintenance and working in the garden. Unfortunately the house maintenance won this time, painting the gate, doors and windows. The 1400 is on the lift waiting patiently for attention. Which gives me some time to reflect on all the (sometimes contradicting) symptoms. So work has not stopped. Just waiting.

I think you are making the right decision here.
Sometimes just walking away from a difficult task for a while helps the overall goal one is trying to achieve.
I’ve had to do the same thing over the past year restoring my 22 year old jeep TJ.
Good luck with finishing up your clutch replacement and I’m sure you will reach your goal.

Dan