An apology to tube tires...

[inditx]

Like many of you, I too have lamented the curse of tube tires.
When they go flat, quickly, they are a pain to fix especially on the side of the road.
Well if you’re getting long of tooth like me, you probably just call a friend or a tow company and haul it off anyway.

My point?
I have had more flats with tubeless tires over my 55+ years of riding all sorts of bikes and types.
In fact, I cannot recall having a flat on a tube tire on a motorcycle!
There’s a reason that serious off roaders and racers use a tube I suppose.

And I have suffered a bent rim on cast wheels but never on spoked rims regardless of tube or tubeless.

So I apologize to tubes everywhere. 

I now have 3 bikes and 2 of then have tube tires! No flats, knocking on wood and they hold air longer! 

Ok I’ve said it.
Now about those chain drives….!

ymmv
inditx

[Perazzimx14]

Like many of you, I too have lamented the curse of tube tires.
When they go flat, quickly, they are a pain to fix especially on the side of the road.
Well if you’re getting long of tooth like me, you probably just call a friend or a tow company and haul it off anyway.

My point?
I have had more flats with tubeless tires over my 55+ years of riding all sorts of bikes and types.
In fact, I cannot recall having a flat on a tube tire on a motorcycle!
There’s a reason that serious off roaders and racers use a tube I suppose.

And I have suffered a bent rim on cast wheels but never on spoked rims regardless of tube or tubeless.

So I apologize to tubes everywhere. 

I now have 3 bikes and 2 of then have tube tires! No flats, knocking on wood and they hold air longer! 

Ok I’ve said it.
Now about those chain drives….!

ymmv
inditx

What racers use tubes?

[inditx]

I was thinking about quarter mile racers with that comment

[sign216]

Let me throw a log onto this fire...

Tube tires are often bias ply, instead of radial.  Bias ply tires have stiffer sidewalls, and if you are down to 10-15 psi it's possible to sneak along at 20-30mph until you come to a service center or a friend's house.  I've done that one occasion.

[n3303j]

20+ years without a flat.
Then two in one year.
One on tubeless.
One on tube.

Doing 70+ mph on tubeless and I had about a minute warning to slow down after the nail came out of tire. Plugged at side of road and finished the trip without event.

Flat on tube type. Tube ruptured immediately dropping me on to rim. Glad I was just leaving a stop light. Pulled over (near home) and called tow truck (had towing insurance). Fixed it at home. Glad that failure did not happen at 70+ mph!

Seen plenty of tube type rims with flat spots. That's usually because the operator is running the tires under recommended pressure. A properly pressured (road use) tire provides plenty of protection for the rim it is mounted onm

[Moparnut72]

A few years ago I test rode a T120. I made the deal for one just like it but a different color. I picked it up the next day and rode it home. Geez the handling is very heavy. I checked tire pressure when I got home, an hour and a half later. Both tires were in the mid 20's. Lucky something bad didn't happen.
kk

[kingoffleece]

Tubes.  You can have 'em. NEVER again.

[MikeP996]

Of the five current bikes of mine, only one has tubeless tires and it's the only one that's had a puncture!  I realize that's totally a matter of luck but I've never considered tube/tubeless to be part of the bike-buying decision.  I buy a bike based on how it looks to me; if it looks right with spokes/tubes as opposed to alloy/tubeless then its spokes/tubes.  To my eye, "retro" bikes (real or fake) looks better with spokes (and twin shocks).

[mechanicsavant]

Many off road racers use a Mouse (pardon my spelling) in their tires . It’s a donut type piece of high tech foam rubber . Can’t go flat Me I’m a tubeless guy .A mini compressor , plug kit & can of fix a flat are always on board !

[kingoffleece]

https://www.nealeytirerepairkit.com/

[Perazzimx14]

Tubes.  You can have 'em. NEVER again.

While I'll never say never there a less than 1% chance I'd ever buy another bike with tube type tires. For me and my riding there is absolutely no advantage to them over tubeless.

[sign216]

Many off road racers use a Mouse (pardon my spelling) in their tires . It’s a donut type piece of high tech foam rubber . Can’t go flat Me I’m a tubeless guy .A mini compressor , plug kit & can of fix a flat are always on board !

Msavant,
Is that okay for road bikes, at highway speeds? 

Edit:  Called mousse, it looks like they are generally not suitable for highway use, and not legal for road use in some countries.  They would get too hot, and deteriorate.   
Risemousse B-Sure mousse is reportedly okay for road use at moderate speeds, but their website it Italian only, so some details are lost.
https://www.risemousse.com/collections/b-sure

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

Tire mousse usually have a psi equivalent, and I think the firmest one I've seen was ~15 psi.

There's always tubeless conversions  Outex are popular and better proven than many of the DIY options. I have a set of Excel rims with BARTubeless factory installed and I've been very happy with that setup for running spoked wheels without tubes, and without going to modern cross-spoked, perimeter-spoked, outside-spoked rims or whatever you want to call them.

[Gusable]

Well I’m thrilled with my tubeless conversion! I’m holding air and the kenda cruiser tires are amazing. I’d rather not run tubes ever again. Not a fan. Now for some tpms sensors!

[michaell32]

I haven't had enough flats to care if a bike has tubes or not.  I am more bothered by spokes.  A tube is easy to change.  If I have the choice to ditch tubes or spokes I will always choose spokes if I can. 

[Gusable]

I haven't had enough flats to care if a bike has tubes or not.  I am more bothered by spokes.  A tube is easy to change.  If I have the choice to ditch tubes or spokes I will always choose spokes if I can.

yes! Mags always perfered if an option.

[kingoffleece]

Tubes are easy to change-at home.  50 miles out, 11pm, lots of rain, no flashlight, solo.  Not so much.

[YellowDuck]

Tubes are easy to change-at home. 

Agree to disagree. I find them a right pain in the ass to change, and I seem to have about a 1/3 chance of pinching them.  I still have one bike that uses tubes (2006 Ducati Sport 1000, with the original spoked rims), and I doubt I will ever change those tires myself again.

[Moparnut72]

I have only had two flats since 1965 and I have no idea in how many miles, 100's of K's. The first was on a scooter in 1965 with a spare wheel bolted to the rear. The second was in the 70's, I had just left home when the rear started making road noise. I made it back before it was totally flat. It was on my R75/5 which came with natural rubber tubes which are supposed to resist tearing in the event of a puncture. I always replace tires when the wear bar start to show. I will knock on wood now. 🤫
kk

[Perazzimx14]

I was surprised to find a lot of the folks I ride with do not carry the means to repair a puncture and/or inflate a tire let lone have a tube and tire irons. Or when they travel together they pare down and if one guy has the stuff the other leave theirs at home to save 60cc of room in a pannier. In preparation for a upcoming trip it was brought up who is taking what tools, and tire repair items and my response is the same as it always is. I am taking tools for my bike and stuff to plug and inflate a tire. Everyone is welcome to use what I have but realize that if something happens and we get separated  if their bike requires something specific you are on you own. Last year one buddy needed to adjust his chain and was upset because no one had the wrench specific to the rear axle nut on his bike. Two years ago one guy in the group had to turn around 1000+ mile from home for medical reasons. I don't know if he had tire inflator and plugs but I know I did.

Tube type tires are okay if you never get more than walking distance from home. I cannot imagine replacing a tube in Moab in July/August or along the highway with traffic whipping by at 80 MPH 2 feet away and there is no depending on roadside assistance. If you are lucky enough that a tow truck will pick you up you'll probably kill at least 6 or 8 hours waiting for a repair. With tubeless I stand a punchers chance of a fast effective repair and can be on my way in 15 minute or less.

[faffi]

When I had bikes with tubes, I carried a can of foam sealant that also had enough pressure to semi-inflate the tire. It often works, but not if the hole is on the sides near the bead or against the rim, because the goo is thrown outwards.

[kingoffleece]

I should have been more clear.  For our Canadian friend, let's modify to say that tubes are easier to change at home than on the road.

[Zimmermichaels1ea]

Well all the issues with tube tires stated here has me worried!

I've been riding all over the midwest on my '23 V7 Special with the nice spoked rims and tube tires, no flats, knock on wood.

Should I be thinking of adding something like Ride-On?  Just for safety's sake?  Can this goo actually balance tires?  Removing the wheel weights and relying on a goo seems dicey to me.

I looked at this some time ago when I was debating purchasing a set of V7 Stone rims and converting my Special to tubeless tires.  After reviewing several threads on the topic, I felt that converting my spoked rims to tubeless seemed like a big project with iffy results.

[Dirk_S]

‘On the road’: Two flats on tubeless tires and two flats on tube-type tires. The tubeless flats happened on pavement here in the U.S. I had plugs and spare tubes for both instances.

The tube-type flats happened in Argentina, 4 days apart, both in the front. The first flat was a bugger because the rental company refused to give me tools for the KLR, said “don’t worry, every town has a tire repair shop.” Not helpful when you’re in the middle of a national park and there’s no human habitation for at least 25 miles. When I finally got to town after a series of airing up, speeding down the gravel road for 5 km, and repeating, I asked the short-statured curmudgeonly tire repairman to make me a front axle wrench. I’m really glad I did that, because in the middle of a 140 km remote stretch of gravel with absolutely NOTHING for miles, I got my second flat (30 minutes after my first-ever high-side).

I’m not against tube-type tires at all, but you HAVE to have tools. My R80/7 rig still uses them. Sometimes the V7 III mule will wear them if I know I’ll be doing some sketch off-pavement soon. But the kit that’s needed to repair a tube on the road versus simply plugging a tire is more substantial—axle wrench to remove the wheel; tire irons to remove the tire; a patch, sandpaper, and rubber cement to install the patch (or just a spare tube); some dish soap makes life more bearable for lubrication (talking about tube repair here); and finally the pump for inflation.

That said, I’d still rather do both myself than ask / pay someone else to do it, but then I’ve only got 75,000 miles and 15 years of riding. We’ll see when either of those numbers are doubled.

Pic of the KLR on the Paso Roballos upon its first tube flat:


The tire repairman welding me a front axle wrench:


Finishing up tossing a tube into a flat tubeless tire because my last two remaining plugs failed due to a dull knife (photo courtesy of the nice lady who stopped and kept me company on an 85°F humid day):

[MikeP996]

The last (only) street motorcycle flat I had was a couple of years ago and I discovered it in the garage.  There was a nail from some roofing work apparently picked up in our driveway!  Other than that I never had a flat on a street motorcycle - many of which were tubes/spokes. 

Re tools - I don't carry any tools on rides other than whatever the factory included.  On the Guzzi that amounts to "no tools."  OTOH, my '76 Honda CB400F could probably be totally rebuilt with the tools Honda provided in the toolkit!

TBF, most of our rides nowadays are day rides, typically not more than say, 150 miles, but I admit that if I was to undertake a long distance multi day ride I'd carry a few tools (unless I was on the 400F) and a tube patching kit/maybe an extra tube.  Back in my dirt bike days I patched several tubes - no need to dismount the wheel, just find the puncture point, lever off a section of the tire, pull that section of tube out, apply a patch, re-seat the tire, add air!  But frankly, I don't expect my motos to be less reliable than my car and I don't carry a toolbox in my car!  Yes, I used to back in the old days but the need/those days are long gone!  :)

I rode across the USA on a 125 cc Kawasaki two stroke - no flats, no issues at all!  Admittedly I was 20 then; I would not care to repeat it now!  :)

[michaell32]

Re tools - I don't carry any tools on rides other than whatever the factory included.  On the Guzzi that amounts to "no tools."  OTOH, my '76 Honda CB400F could probably be totally rebuilt with the tools Honda provided in the toolkit!

My DR650 is the same as your Honda. I'm pretty sure I could pull the motor with the factory tool kit. I have never had a flat but I like knowing I have all the tools need to pull both wheels and change the oil in a small pouch. There were several times I hit a sharp rock over 30 miles away from any paved road or house but I haven't got a pinch flat yet. I only take that kind of risk because I carry spare tubes and the factory tool kit is that good.

[kingoffleece]

Being a former (now retired) SCUBA instructor trainer and mixed gas instructor I've learned the advantage of having proper tool/equipment and the necessary experience to use them in sometimes very stressful situations.
Nobody asked, but it seems more than reasonable for the tune riders to have all the necessary equipment packed to successfully remedy a flat situation.  Maybe not for you, but the other guy.  Or possibly, for an shop that may not have an oddball socket size-depending on bike.

I get that we've all done thousands on miles without issues.  That's never the question.

[wavedog]

 3 flats in a month on my Himalayan. Nails and magnetic tires. Flats on every tube tire bike I have ever owned. Never a flat on a tubeless tire bike, but that is just luck of the draw. Two flats on my Jackal, then I converted it to tubeless so it would be easier to repair on the road and then never had another flat on that bike.

[Gusable]

My buddy and I are both in the automotive business and his auction company that he works for use these rubber screws for tire repairs on auction cars. I thought it was a great idea so I bought some on Amazon and I broke up the kit and I made a tire repair kit for all the bikes and all the cars a brand new pair of inexpensive side cutters and the screws and a new Philip screwdriver and a $20 air compressor off of Amazon. So both vehicles and all of the motorcycles you get a nail just pull it out screw the thing in with the Philip screwdriver and air it up.Haven’t had to try it yet

[moto]

I had four flat rear tires on my T3 in the space of year, about a year ago. Two were caused by the CycleGear worker pinching the tube (the second time for free to make up for the first time!). The last one was from a nail probably picked up in the gravel parking lot of a barbeque dive where I stopped to check my paper map near Sioux City on a cross-country trip. The first one's cause I forget.

I resolved not to let Cycle Gear "fix" my tires any more. I'll also be more selective about where I stop when I need to check a map. (Or I could use GPS, less fun).

Getting the rear out of a T3 with saddlebags on the side of busy Iowa thruway is no longer practical for me, if it ever was.

I just ordered a cast rear wheel from a 1978 SP1000 and will convert it to tubeless using Perrazzimx14's method (https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=99834.0).

The front wheel will stay spoked since I like the look. The rear wheel is hardly visible behind the saddlebags anyway.

Interesting discussion.