Norge 8v 2012 clutch issue.

[toolittletime]

My 2012 Norge has developed a strange clutch sound.  When releasing the clutch lever it has what I can best describe as a "shudder" that is not normal for this bike. It's a sound and vibration that is not normal. If I rev the engine up some and then slowly release, it does not make the noise or shudder.
I have not smelled anything like burnt parts.
I cannot detect any clutch slippage.
What steps would you take to diagnose the problem before doing a clutch replacement?
Bike has 47k miles and I'm the original owner from new.

[guzzisteve]

It is slowly coming apart, part in center gets out of center. There are 4 springs that come out of their holding spot & get jammed in the mix. They do not make a 1200 clutch. They do make a 1400 clutch that is the replacement. You want to do it earlier than wait for it to come apart. Guzzi doesn't have the hardware in stock. You have to buy the button head screws that hold it together & grind heads off to get it apart. Not for the faint of heart.
Attend to it sooner than later, It's telling you, now is the warning. Good luck with it. Year before last was the last one for me. I still have 1 set of bolts, the rest of 100pcs I gave to Jim Hamlin of Hamlin Cycles.

[toolittletime]

So are you saying the replacement from mg cycle will not fit?

I have done the clutch on my 74 Eldorado a few years back. So I am pretty familiar with the procedure.
Picture of the mg cycle clutch attached

[TN Mark]

I was told by my dealer the 1200, 1400  and a FIAT car all use the same clutch.

I suspect many on WG has replaced a Norge/Griso 1200 clutch.

GuzziSteve has a LOT of experience wrenching on these bikes.

Also, do a search here on WG as well as GuzziTech. Tons of very good technical information to be easily found.

[guzzisteve]

The whole assembly gets replaced, price is $1,000.00. Not just the disc.

The engine comes out, you have to roll & twist it to get it out. Takes over 8hrs for the work. I would definitely look into how it's done, not like a Loop or Tonti. The frame wraps around & under the back of trans. No easy way to do it.

There hasn't been any 1200 replacement clutches since 2013, they knew of the issue already & that's why the 1400 replacement. More heavy duty.

[toolittletime]

Anyone here done the clutch replacement recently.  Just looking for some tips.

I did see a youtube where a Griso clutch was replaced, that may be some help, but not sure how much of it applies to the Norge 8v.

Also......is there any particular reason the entire clutch assembly has to be replaced??

[toolittletime]

If I understand Guzzisteve correctly, I have 2 options.

1.  Order the entire clutch kit    1150.00  has everything needed in it.

2. Order the replacement disc only....#2 in attached picture..185.00.... ..and grind the bolts off that hold the unit together.....insert new plate and new bolts.

That about right??

[toolittletime]

Got some advice from our friend down under that I will post here.
Steve’s advice was spot on. The problem is that in the 1200 series there is no shock absorber in the gearbox. That task was reassigned to Cush springs in the centre of the plate of the diaphragm clutch. Unfortunately the plate centres with the seats in are only stamping that are then assembled into the centre part of the plate and over time the springs will wear the surrounding stamped steel plate until the springs, one of them at least, jump ship. This buggers everything up big time so it’s important to get to it before it fails! The fact your bike is a 2012 is relevant in that there was a run of plates in 2011/12 that were particularly prone to destruction. Most of them ended up in Stelvios, (Or maybe Stelvios are more prone to failure due to how they are used and ridden?) but I’ve seen them in Grisos as well so I’d guess Norges aren’t immune either although 8V Norges are very rare here.

OK! So how to fix! Sadly there is no easy way. Essentially when they built any of the Big Block Guzzis they start with a clutch friction plate and build a motorbike onto it! Unlike most earlier models you can’t get the gearbox off the motor without dropping the motor out of the frame or lifting the frame off the motive unit pretty much completely! You mentioned you had viewed the YouTube of the bloke changing the clutch in the Griso by pulling the motor out the front? When I saw that I was so astonished I actually wrote a comment as it is without a doubt the most complicated, time consuming and difficult way I have ever seen to do a job badly!😂 That is NOT the way to do it!

Obviously you need to take all the fairings apart from the headlight nacelle and headlight surround and remove the tank. Then, like any CARC bike you just start at the back and work forward. If you haven’t already greased them so you’ll almost certainly find the shock linkages and swingarm bearings will be dead so plan on doing them at the same time. Buying a new shock linkage, (If still available.) is the cheapest way to replace the bearings. Just grease it properly before installation as they are never done properly at the factory. Likewise pack the new swingarm bearings chock full of grease.

Once the swingarm is out of the way pull the airbox, being careful of the drain hose spigot on the lower RH side and disconnect all the sensor wiring and probably the throttle cables from the throttlebodies. Once everything is clear support the frame by hanging it from the rafters or whatever, remove the front down tube bolts and then the upper and lower gearbox bolts and lower the motive unit down. As Steve said it takes a bit of jiggling about but it’s not the end of the world. Just to back-track a bit it’s important to remember that when you remove the footrest hanger plates the centrestand will collapse so DON’T use the stand when you start the task! It really helps if you have a crane or a lift bench which you can lower to drop the motor out but it is possible to get away with bribing a couple of burly oafs to come around and assist by waving beer and pizza under their noses.

Once the motive unit is free of the frame, the starter can be unbolted if you haven’t already done it and then the gearbox unbolted and pulled off the back of the engine exposing the clutch. As Steve said the ring gear bolts can be a real bastard to remove so expect to have to replace at least a couple of them. After that disassembling the rest of the clutch is pretty easy.

Once it’s apart you can examine the friction faces of the clutch and decide if they are reusable? As long as they aren’t horribly blued up, blistered or damaged by bits of disintegrating spring it should be possible to either get them re-faced or simply, as we have done in the past, give them a really good polish with wet and dry 1200, and fit a new friction plate. Obviously a new clutch assembly is the best option but a plate alone is a lot cheaper. FWIW I’ve done both.

Do not wait for it to fail. It will make the job infinitely more difficult and can lead to gearbox casing damage!

As soon as it cools off a little , I will get her on the operating table and post some pics here.

[guzzisteve]

Glad you are doing your research, it helps to get your head around what you have to do. If I didn't have to do another it'd be fine with me, done my share. I've not looked at all the stuff out there, I just do my job. Don't care how or why others do things, that doesn't get the job done.
Good Luck with it, you'll be fine.

[Pescatore]

Great topic, toolittletime.

Does the same problem occur on the 1st gen Norge, especially the 2008 series?
The parts catalog shows two designs in both gens: single plate and dual plate.
The part numbers are the same in both catalogs.
Maybe gen1, 1st series used a single plate?
Is there a way to tell which is installed?

I presume the work is very similar in all gens, so I'll be impatiently waiting for the pictures.

[theoneandonlymin]

My experience from last winter.....

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=124134.0

[toolittletime]

My experience from last winter.....

https://wildguzzi.com/forum/index.php?topic=124134.0

This helps a lot.

Will also post pics when I start.

[Huzo]

Got some advice from our friend down under that I will post here.
Steve’s advice was spot on. The problem is that in the 1200 series there is no shock absorber in the gearbox. That task was reassigned to Cush springs in the centre of the plate of the diaphragm clutch. Unfortunately the plate centres with the seats in are only stamping that are then assembled into the centre part of the plate and over time the springs will wear the surrounding stamped steel plate until the springs, one of them at least, jump ship. This buggers everything up big time so it’s important to get to it before it fails! The fact your bike is a 2012 is relevant in that there was a run of plates in 2011/12 that were particularly prone to destruction. Most of them ended up in Stelvios, (Or maybe Stelvios are more prone to failure due to how they are used and ridden?) but I’ve seen them in Grisos as well so I’d guess Norges aren’t immune either although 8V Norges are very rare here.

OK! So how to fix! Sadly there is no easy way. Essentially when they built any of the Big Block Guzzis they start with a clutch friction plate and build a motorbike onto it! Unlike most earlier models you can’t get the gearbox off the motor without dropping the motor out of the frame or lifting the frame off the motive unit pretty much completely! You mentioned you had viewed the YouTube of the bloke changing the clutch in the Griso by pulling the motor out the front? When I saw that I was so astonished I actually wrote a comment as it is without a doubt the most complicated, time consuming and difficult way I have ever seen to do a job badly!😂 That is NOT the way to do it!

Obviously you need to take all the fairings apart from the headlight nacelle and headlight surround and remove the tank. Then, like any CARC bike you just start at the back and work forward. If you haven’t already greased them so you’ll almost certainly find the shock linkages and swingarm bearings will be dead so plan on doing them at the same time. Buying a new shock linkage, (If still available.) is the cheapest way to replace the bearings. Just grease it properly before installation as they are never done properly at the factory. Likewise pack the new swingarm bearings chock full of grease.

Once the swingarm is out of the way pull the airbox, being careful of the drain hose spigot on the lower RH side and disconnect all the sensor wiring and probably the throttle cables from the throttlebodies. Once everything is clear support the frame by hanging it from the rafters or whatever, remove the front down tube bolts and then the upper and lower gearbox bolts and lower the motive unit down. As Steve said it takes a bit of jiggling about but it’s not the end of the world. Just to back-track a bit it’s important to remember that when you remove the footrest hanger plates the centrestand will collapse so DON’T use the stand when you start the task! It really helps if you have a crane or a lift bench which you can lower to drop the motor out but it is possible to get away with bribing a couple of burly oafs to come around and assist by waving beer and pizza under their noses.

Once the motive unit is free of the frame, the starter can be unbolted if you haven’t already done it and then the gearbox unbolted and pulled off the back of the engine exposing the clutch. As Steve said the ring gear bolts can be a real bastard to remove so expect to have to replace at least a couple of them. After that disassembling the rest of the clutch is pretty easy.

Once it’s apart you can examine the friction faces of the clutch and decide if they are reusable? As long as they aren’t horribly blued up, blistered or damaged by bits of disintegrating spring it should be possible to either get them re-faced or simply, as we have done in the past, give them a really good polish with wet and dry 1200, and fit a new friction plate. Obviously a new clutch assembly is the best option but a plate alone is a lot cheaper. FWIW I’ve done both.

Do not wait for it to fail. It will make the job infinitely more difficult and can lead to gearbox casing damage!

As soon as it cools off a little , I will get her on the operating table and post some pics here.

I can hear his voice in your explanation.