Planning to buy a Trip 500...

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

All of the photos in this thread so far are computer generated "renderings", not the actual end product. The real deal will most likely be displayed at EICMA.
 

[blu guzz]

Congrats if that is the bike for you. Ride and let ride I say.
But, I picked up a 15,000 mile 2017 Roamer, very well equipped for a tad over $4,000.00 ready to ride. Real metal tank and fenders, real round guage. Not very heavy. Feels and sounds like a Guzzi.  Just saying, there are lots of alternatives.

[SIR REAL ED]

Congrats if that is the bike for you. Ride and let ride I say.
But, I picked up a 15,000 mile 2017 Roamer, very well equipped for a tad over $4,000.00 ready to ride. Real metal tank and fenders, real round guage. Not very heavy. Feels and sounds like a Guzzi.  Just saying, there are lots of alternatives.

Sounds like a good buy.  $4-5,000 buys an awful lot in the used motorcycle market lately.

[steven c]

 How about a Guzzi 2 stroke,just a Benelli 250 with Moto Guzzi on the tank.
https://youtu.be/St7-YynNE4Q?si=ILO6w3wTDnIGOciG

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

There are a few "spy" photos of the masked pre-production models
https://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle-news/moto-guzzi-the-trip-500-parallel-twin-spy-shots/

[2dogs]

It’s a sad day when Guzzi enthusiasts embrace a rebadged Aprilia
Just my opinion

[steven c]

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-e&channel=entpr&q=moto+guzzi+trip+500#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:525ec972,vid:FcWPYnjbUnE,st:0
 Good looking bike.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-e&channel=entpr&q=moto+guzzi+trip+500#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:525ec972,vid:FcWPYnjbUnE,st:0
 Good looking bike.

Top left-hand corner reads: "AI", so it's just another computer generated guess at what it will look like. Until a "spy" photographer gets a shot of an undisguised one, Guzzi releases official photos, or it's shown at EICMA, we won't know what it really looks like.

[AJ Huff]

Do you think way back when there were a bunch of old crotchety Guzzi riders calling out "if it doesn't have a bacon slicer fly wheel, I ain't riding it!!!”

-AJ

[Tusayan]

Do you think way back when there were a bunch of old crotchety Guzzi riders calling out "if it doesn't have a bacon slicer fly wheel, I ain't riding it!!!”

-AJ

No, and neither is anybody today taking any similar position.  This is not a discussion about more advanced designs replacing obsolete designs, it is a discussion about a once proud European company being reduced to a corporate brand selling generic, midgrade technology made in India by somebody else.

[Bulldog9]

No, and neither is anybody today taking any similar position.  This is not a discussion about more advanced designs replacing obsolete designs, it is a discussion about a once proud European company being reduced to a corporate brand selling generic, midgrade technology made in India by somebody else.

Market realities, and if it helps make Guzzi more profitable to keep the core brand alive and healthy, and provide a more accessible on ramp to the brand, I say more power to them. Glad they are not ceding the fast growing sub 500cc  market.

[SIR REAL ED]

Market realities, and if it helps make Guzzi more profitable to keep the core brand alive and healthy, and provide a more accessible on ramp to the brand, I say more power to them. Glad they are not ceding the fast growing sub 500cc  market.

Yep.  If Moto Guzzi or any other OEM decides the past is what must define them, they will cease to exist in the present or at best, the future will bypass them.

after decades of making four strokes, Honda saw the writing on the wall in the early 70's and started making two strokes.

Has anybody bought any rotary dial landline phones recently?

My Mother-In-Law kept her analogue TV long after it could not receive any broadcasts simply because it was a great looking piece of furniture.

The interesting question to me is will current motorcycle OEM remain wedded to ICE motorcycles, or embrace electric vehicles?  The one's that choose to survive will build whatever the buyers want to buy.

[Tusayan]

Market realities, and if it helps make Guzzi more profitable to keep the core brand alive and healthy, and provide a more accessible on ramp to the brand, I say more power to them. Glad they are not ceding the fast growing sub 500cc  market.

What it will do is dilute Moto Guzzi over time to the point that the ‘brand’ becomes meaningless.  Like Gilera under Piaggio.  Don’t know much about Gilera, which was behind the development of the now-typical transverse inline four sport/race bike? You might consider why.

Again, this is primarily about the company capabilities and product philosophy not the design details or product.  Guzzi has made of simple lightweights among many other kinds of bikes,

[Perazzimx14]

What it will do is dilute Moto Guzzi over time to the point that the ‘brand’ becomes meaningless.  Like Gilera under Piaggio.  Don’t know much about Gilera, which was behind the development of the now-typical transverse inline four sport/race bike? You might consider why.

In the motorcycle world how meaningful is the brand currently? I mean outside of the few hundred members on WG with about 50 of them being active Moto Guzzi is a boutique brand as it has been for millennia and will likely be until it fades into obscurity.

The brand is damned if they do and damned if they don't.

[Tusayan]

 :undecided:o

In the motorcycle world how meaningful is the brand currently? I mean outside of the few hundred members on WG with about 50 of them being active Moto Guzzi is a boutique brand as it has been for millennia and will likely be until it fades into obscurity.

The brand is damned if they do and damned if they don't.

The US and WG are inconsequential to Guzzi’s market.

But yes, Piaggio had a great opportunity 20 years ago and just keeps doing worse and worse with Moto Guzzi.  Just like they did with Gilera, all the way to the grave. The problem is that Piaggio never wanted Guzzi or understood it.  They bought Aprilia in a passionless move to put their momentarily floundering scooter competitor out of business, and Moto Guzzi the company was a recent Aprilia acquisition that came along with the deal as an unwanted burden.

The subsequent Griso was a retake on the Centauro and was not awful, probably the best Guzzi bike Piaggio has done, and V100 engine is good - I think it’s the only positive development in recent years in terms of building a long term foundation.  The V85 is OK because it’s reliable, looks good and made some sales, even with unimpressive performance.  But Piaggio doesn’t really ‘get’ what Moto Guzzi can be, Vespa is about scooters and Aprilia is a competitor to the Japanese.  The Trip 500 would be better off staying an Aprilia, versus taking on a Guzzi badge that it can’t credibly carry.

[SIR REAL ED]

What it will do is dilute Moto Guzzi over time to the point that the ‘brand’ becomes meaningless.  Like Gilera under Piaggio.  Don’t know much about Gilera, which was behind the development of the now-typical transverse inline four sport/race bike? You might consider why.

Again, this is primarily about the company capabilities and product philosophy not the design details or product.  Guzzi has made of simple lightweights among many other kinds of bikes,

What are the Moto Guzzi "company capabilities" and "product philosophy" to which the brand should remain loyal?

If the above questions were asked of 100 Moto Guzzi riders, how many would have the same answers?

Perhaps even more importantly, how many would have the correct answers?

[Tusayan]

What are the Moto Guzzi "company capabilities" and "product philosophy" to which the brand should remain loyal?

The best start to an answer to that question is to say Moto Guzzi was and should be a motorcycle manufacturer, not a brand like Cheetos.

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

Did I miss Moto Guzzi entering the corny cheese puff market? The Trip 500 seems like a motorcycle to me ;)

Making an entry level bike, with engine or even full assembly from a cheaper country, makes sense if you want to sell a 500cc twin. Pretty much every other brand I can think of, from Europe, Japan, and the USA have already done that. My last Ducati was full of Italian charm despite being built by Ducati Motor (Thailand) Co. An alternative approach is to do what Vespa does, build the EU scoots in the EU and sell them at a premium, then build the Asian market ones in Asia and sell them affordably.

[Bulldog9]

What it will do is dilute Moto Guzzi over time to the point that the ‘brand’ becomes meaningless.  Like Gilera under Piaggio.  Don’t know much about Gilera, which was behind the development of the now-typical transverse inline four sport/race bike? You might consider why.

Again, this is primarily about the company capabilities and product philosophy not the design details or product.  Guzzi has made of simple lightweights among many other kinds of bikes,

Couldn't disagree more.

Guzzi has evolved and changed over the years. Look at what they offered in 1959 and compare to 1969 then 79, 89, 99, 09, 19 and today.  I hate AI, but it is helpful to do such a trip down memory lane asking it to list all models available. Huge variety and change that morphed into the V-twins of today. Would I prefer a sub 500cc Air Cooled V twin? Yes. But market realities and government environazi requirements likely make this a bridge too far. Air cooled motors are dead thanks to emission standards, and I give them credit for keeping them alive, but a new small displacement air cooled motor? THAT would be an exercise in futility.  They COULD have possibly done a 500cc version of the V100, but would be 5-10 years

Today they are stagnant. Basically two engine platforms. The brand is stagnant, just invested a ton of $$ into the V100 platform, and the 400-500cc market is exploding. Triumph sells 5000 of its new 400cc series bikes every MONTH.............. Never Mind Royal Enfield and others. Guzzi is giving up this market.

I get it. I hate Brand labeling, but in limited use can benifit a brand. Overuse is what killed GMs greatest marques.  (Oldsmobile/Pontiac)

OK, so the engine is sourced from the Aprilia Factory in India. But it still has shaft drive, steel tubular frame, Guzzi Aesthetics. This is a nice little motor too and proven reliable. If the Trip had a chain drive, I'd me more likely to agree, but it retains the shaft drive, steel trellis frame, and other Guzzi components and design. Tell you what, if that new Triumph or several of the Aprilias like the mana or the one with the clutchless transmission had a shaft drive? I'd have one in my garage. I'm hoping the Trip has the presence of the new Triumph with Guzzi DNA.

This is a win win and may be one of Guzzi's top sellers. Heck, if they sell 5000 a year nevermind a month (like Triumph) it will be a success. It will also provide a larger on ramp to the brand, bring higher profits, increase awareness, and take advantage of one of the fastest growing market segments. Should also be dead to rights reliable.

People (911 purist snobs) hated the 914, 924, 944, Boxter, Cayenne and Macan, but without them, Porsche would be DEAD.........

[faffi]

Guzzi-branded Benellis is part of their history as well.

It does not seem like the final look of the Trip 500 is ready, but the only appealing one I found was this:

[Vagrant]

Where did the "it is shaft drive" come from. I haven't seen that anywhere. Seeing as it's taking a loooong time to get it to market we can only hope for a shaft or better yet a belt. For sure it's not just a re-badge 457 or we would have it by now.

[Bulldog9]

Where did the "it is shaft drive" come from. I haven't seen that anywhere. Seeing as it's taking a loooong time to get it to market we can only hope for a shaft or better yet a belt. For sure it's not just a re-badge 457 or we would have it by now.

I forget where I saw it, but read something about it being shaft drive not chain.

Converting to shaft drive requires major redesign of the transmission output, swingarm, and overall packaging. Could be part of the delay, but who's to know with Italians......... Doing this would defeat the cost-saving purpose of sharing the Aprilia powertrain, but keep the Guzzi uniqueness, and opens new possibilities for future models.

If chain drive, the model will be DOA to me.

[Tusayan]

People (911 purist snobs) hated the 914, 924, 944, Boxter, Cayenne and Macan, but without them, Porsche would be DEAD.........

It’s not a valid analogy.  Those cars were designed by Porsche Engineering, mostly built by Porsche and were better than the 911, which was a poor design.  The Trip 500 is not a better design and it was designed by Aprilia and Piaggio.  It will be built at a Piaggio scooter plant in India.  Guzzi engineering and product design capability no longer exists, it was dissolved 20 years ago.  This is not a Guzzi product in any sense.

Re the Benelli/Guzzis of the 70s.  Many people don’t know that the four stroke versions were much more Guzzi than they were Benelli.  Guzzi built the engines, the forks, the wheels (about as much as they built of e.g. a Le Mans) and Guzzi did much of the design.  At that time Guzzi was the center of the organization, with the most engineering and manufacturing capability.  They were making ten times as many motorcycles as they are now (the peak was about 48,000 per year). The intent was for Guzzi to help Benelli.

[Bulldog9]

It’s not a valid analogy.  Those cars were designed by Porsche Engineering, mostly built by Porsche and were better than the 911, which was a poor design.  The Trip 500 is not a better design and it was designed by Aprilia and Piaggio.  It will be built at a Piaggio scooter plant in India.  Guzzi engineering and product design capability no longer exists, it was dissolved 20 years ago.  This is not a Guzzi product in any sense.

Re the Benelli/Guzzis of the 70s.  Many people don’t know that the four stroke versions were much more Guzzi than they were Benelli.  Guzzi built the engines, the forks, the wheels (about as much as they built of e.g. a Le Mans) and Guzzi did much of the design.  At that time Guzzi was the center of the organization, with the most engineering and manufacturing capability.  They were making ten times as many motorcycles as they are now (the peak was about 48,000 per year). The intent was for Guzzi to help Benelli.

Totally Valid.  The 914 and 924/944.1 were largely VW design and engineering, and originally planned as VW models. Porsche bought the designs and tooling. The 914 had a Type IV VW motor, and the 924 & 944.1 had an Audi Motor.  As for the 911 being a poor design? 

[moto]

The left-side rear chain and sprocket are clearly visible in this photo just posted by Faffi.

It's an Aprilia built in India, with Guzzi branding.

[SLDMRossi]

To set the record straight, Porsche did not solely engineer the Cayenne. It was co-developed with Volkswagen as a secret "Colorado Project" in Hemmingen, Germany and simultaneously lead to the VW Touareg, as well. The reality is: no manufacturer (Ferrari, Porsche, Audi-owned Ducati, no one...) develops anything on its own in a vacuum these days. Collaboration across the industry is the state of the art. Then, when you factor in the shared, under-the-skin influence of critical component suppliers...you end up where we are today.

SR

[Tusayan]

Totally Valid.  The 914 and 924/944.1 were largely VW design and engineering, and originally planned as VW models. Porsche bought the designs and tooling. The 914 had a Type IV VW motor, and the 924 & 944.1 had an Audi Motor.  As for the 911 being a poor design? 

LJK Setright (a well known automotive journalist of the time) sarcastically called the 911 a “triumph of development over design”.  It was the product of 1930s ideas that were vastly obsolete by the 70s, a fundamentally terrible design that sold though marketing and snobbery associated with Hollywood.  It was silly that people fell for it then and now.

The 914-6 is a far better car than the 911, and shared the same engine.  The 944 was a far better car than the 911 and had an entirely Porsche designed engine.  Porsche developed these cars to replace the 911 and subcontracted manufacturing to reduce costs and increase volume to profitable levels - that was the credo of the time.  Same with the Boxster, with Porsche flat 6 and Finnish subcontract manufacture for some of them. Porsche was and is in control.

Meanwhile Guzzi is not even a company, and there is no Moto Guzzi design engineering capability.  This is not a matter of ‘collaboration’ or other BS marketing speak, it is a matter of the Trip 500 being designed and now even built by other people in other companies, another step toward a Gilera-like fate under Piaggio.

[SLDMRossi]

Having known and spent some good, personal time with Setright (RIP) I can tell you that while he had great automotive insight, he had little to no business insight on what it took to keep a company alive.

Steven Rossi

[Tusayan]

Having known and spent some good, personal time with Setright (RIP) I can tell you that while he had great automotive insight, he had little to no business insight on what it took to keep a company alive.

Steven Rossi

Which is why his comments are relevant in relation to the poor engineering design of the Porsche 911.  They made it work (sort of) through pure persistence, but it was no Lotus engineering design.

[Bulldog9]

To set the record straight, Porsche did not solely engineer the Cayenne. It was co-developed with Volkswagen as a secret "Colorado Project" in Hemmingen, Germany and simultaneously lead to the VW Touareg, as well. The reality is: no manufacturer (Ferrari, Porsche, Audi-owned Ducati, no one...) develops anything on its own in a vacuum these days. Collaboration across the industry is the state of the art. Then, when you factor in the shared, under-the-skin influence of critical component suppliers...you end up where we are today.

SR

Forgot about that. I knew the original Touareg was based on the Cayenne, but didn't realize it followed the same trajectory as the 914 & 924.