V7 850 E5 DeCat??

[Vecchio Lupo]

FRiends,

   I have a 21 V7 Special with 400 miles on it (I've only owned it for a couple months). Love it, dont want major changes, but...once ive done about 2k miles, I am thinking about an intake / exhaust upgrade, maybe an Air injection delete, and of course a re-map (Upmap).  This is not a cheap endeavor as you know the slip ons and remap alone are $1500+

My question is the De-Cat.  I see where mistral makes a Decat crossover for the E5+ but there is no mention of the E5 models.   I read that there are Cats in the header and the mufflers. 

Is there a solution Im just not seeing?  Thank you

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

On your 2021 V7 850 E5 there are catalyzers are in each muffler, where a change of slip-ons would eliminate them and nothing needs to be done with the crossover. If there are catalyzers in the head pipes, I don't know for sure but I doubt it based on their size and shape. The air injection is downstream of the combustion chamber, so consider what your desire for eliminating it is and if it would actually accomplish that. The emissions equipment on these bikes isn't much of a hinderance but eliminating it can drop a little weight and reduce heat (catalyzers run hot to function), but IMO the more justifiable reasons are sound and aesthetic of an aftermarket exhaust. As for the UpMap, something I didn't know before doing mine was that it puts the ECU into open-loop, meaning it disregards the readings from the o2/lambda sensors. This is not terrible but also not ideal if you will be widely varying elevations and temperatures, expect that the bike's mpg (and thus its range) may take a bit of a hit.

On the E5+ it's different and the catalyzer is at the crossover.

Here's a photo of an OEM 2022 V7 850 E5 stone exhaust for reference where you can see the catalyzer honeycomb.

[Vecchio Lupo]

THANK YOU, just what I was looking for.   AF1 and GTM sell an air injection block off plate kit to go with the EVAP delete.  Not sure of my feelings hon that. I will go slip ons, Upmap, K&N and probably leave it at that. Again....thank you.

[red stripeguz]

I basically have my 23 set up like you are describing. Agostini shorties, Dyna air filter, air injection block off plates (from...Smart Moto I think? Can verify) and UpMap. Very happy with all the mods. The UpMap definitely affects your gas mileage. I get mid-high 30 mpg range now, though that is mostly running 85-95 mph at 5000-5500 rpm

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

Personally I'd steer away from cotton gauze filters on a non-race bike as nearly every time I encounter a K&N filter the "clean" side of the airbox behind it is dirty. YMMV, just my 2cents

[Kev m]

As for the UpMap, something I didn't know before doing mine was that it puts the ECU into open-loop, meaning it disregards the readings from the o2/lambda sensors. This is not terrible but also not ideal if you will be widely varying elevations and temperatures, expect that the bike's mpg (and thus its range) may take a bit of a hit.

Open loop operation still adjusts fine for elevation or temperature. It just doesn't tweak the map or fuel trim further based on the lambda sensor because, as you pointed out, the ECU is no longer paying attention to that. But closed loop operation has always been first and foremost about l safely leaning out mixtures as much as possible at the right times to reduce emissions. It was never really about efficiency or performance.

[Dr. Enzo Toma]

Open loop operation still adjusts fine for elevation or temperature. It just doesn't tweak the map or fuel trim further based on the lambda sensor because, as you pointed out, the ECU is no longer paying attention to that. But closed loop operation has always been first and foremost about l safely leaning out mixtures as much as possible at the right times to reduce emissions. It was never really about efficiency or performance.

How does the ECU know the elevation?

From the systems I am familiar with, mostly Honda's PGM-FI, it doesn't have any direct way to know elevation (other than bikes where you can set the elevation manually!) but instead uses the narrowband o2 sensor(s) to read lean or rich (though it doesn't know how much in either direction), so as you go up in elevation and the mixture would get more rich it reads that and trims fuel instead.

[Kev m]

How does the ECU know the elevation?

From the systems I am familiar with, mostly Honda's PGM-FI, it doesn't have any direct way to know elevation (other than bikes where you can set the elevation manually!) but instead uses the narrowband o2 sensor(s) to read lean or rich (though it doesn't know how much in either direction), so as you go up in elevation and the mixture would get more rich it reads that and trims fuel instead.

There are basically two flavors of EFI systems and either can be open or closed loop, Mass Airflow and Speed-Density.  A Mass Airflow system measures density directly using the mass airflow hot wire sensor while a Speed-Density system uses a combination of air intake temp sensor and manifold absolute pressure (MAP) sensor to calculate amount of air (compensated for density) for a given throttle position.

Honda's PFM-FI systems are speed density, at least last time I checked.

So no system "knows" the altitude per se, it just knows the density of the air wherever it is being operated.