*California 1400 Merged Threadfest*

[Kev m]

Personally,  I think that there is more to the basic layout of the Guzzi motor than seemingly advantageous cooling.

Porsche and Subaru have long used opposed cylinders that go against the grain of common automotive drivetrains for reasons other than cooling.

The Guzzi layout is one of aesthetic appeal. It's a brand trademark.  Hell it's a convenient way to access spark plugs and valves.

To abandon it for a transverse crankshaft would pretty much instantly reduce it to nothing more than another redundant non-descript bike in the crowd.

So, I say there are legitimate reasons for them to produce a LC version of the longitudinal crank/transverse cylinder motor.

[bad Chad]

Here is a question that is posed in sincerity with no sarcasm or snark.....is a Ducati 916 any less of a Ducati than a 750SS?  Does the fact the 916 is liquid cooled detract in any way from its' inherent "Ducati-ness"?  Forget which you would prefer to own and just think about whether one is less of a "Ducati" than the other.    

For me, they are both iconic bikes from the same manufacturer.  That the 916 happens to have a radiator would not detract from my enjoyment of it.  Like Guzzi, Ducati was originally know for singles before branching into twins.  The Ducati L twin is every bit as aligned with Ducati's past as Guzzi's V twin.  I see a potential LC Guzzi in this framework.          

plus one

The new motor just has to make sense to 1/2 of the old Guzzi gaurd, of which 20% will then buy the new bike within 18 months of introduction.  Simultanusly attracing at least twice the number of exitsting Guzzista, of which 30% then purchase a new H2O. That would make for a very real sales increases.  I think that's very possible, and a good thing for the brand.  

 But Please don't kill the air cooled motor, I'm air cooled to the end.

[bad Chad]

Personally,  I think that there is more to the basic layout of the Guzzi motor than seemingly advantageous cooling.

Porsche and Subaru have long used opposed cylinders that go against the grain of common automotive drivetrains for reasons other than cooling.

The Guzzi layout is one of aesthetic appeal. It's a brand trademark.  Hell it's a convenient way to access spark plugs and valves.

To abandon it for a transverse crankshaft would pretty much instantly reduce it to nothing more than another redundant non-descript bike in the crowd.

So, I say there are legitimate reasons for them to produce a LC version of the longitudinal crank/transverse cylinder motor.

You Go Bro!

[Pescara]

Let's see.... $70 million engineering cost divided by 10,000 additional sales before the market moves on... That's only $7000/bike in additional engineering cost.  

Heck if it sells like the V4 Aprilia they'll have a winner on their hands. Not.

Why change? It's been the Aprilia/Piaggio business model since the Futura and Caponord.

[Joliet Jim]

Geez I wonder if the Triumph guys get as pissy.  Winter is right.  As much as i liked my old bonneville and trident, I'd love to have a new tiger.  Chain and all.

[bad Chad]

This is a good exchange of info and ideas, I am really glad we can have it. :) :)

[Wild Bill Guzzi]

...Almost bought a Tiger

[Rainman]

Let's see.... $70 million engineering cost divided by 10,000 additional sales before the market moves on... That's only $7000/bike in additional engineering cost. 

Heck if it sells like the V4 Aprilia they'll have a winner on their hands. Not.

They've already done the engineering on the Aprilli. It's a water cooled 90° DOHC Vee Twin. ???

Quote from: Kev m on Today at 07:28:37 PM

So, I say there are legitimate reasons for them to produce a LC version of the longitudinal crank/transverse cylinder motor.

Yeah! Because it's the best overall layout & we like it.  ;-T

[mqracing]

Why can't Guzzi develop a V4, V6, or V8 format like the Morbidelli?  It would
be identifiable as a "guzzi" but yet offer a new powerplant with perhaps new
capabilities.  Liquid cool the darn thing I don't care.  But I think they need to
stick to an engine format that says "Guzzi" and looks "Guzzi".

Look at how BMW tried to drop the basic air cooled horizontally opposed twin
approx 20 years ago or so... and found that the market really did want the twin.
So they updated the twin and kept up a separate program of developing the Brick
laid over multi-cylinder water cooled mills... and have done quite well in sales
over the last twenty years and are thriving.

[Amboman]

Fabio Taglioni designed the air cooled Ducati engines, including the belt drive engines.  Bordi was his protege and the rest is correct :-)

Bordi is now leading Cagiva/MV in his 60s after years out of the motorcycle biz.

Darn, I knew that! Got my "T"s mixed up...  ;)

[Murray]

Why can't Guzzi develop a V4, V6, or V8 format like the Morbidelli?  It would
be identifiable as a "guzzi" but yet offer a new powerplant with perhaps new
capabilities.  Liquid cool the darn thing I don't care.  But I think they need to
stick to an engine format that says "Guzzi" and looks "Guzzi".

TBH a V4,6,8 would be better as a transversely mounted motor with chain drive. There was a concept drawing of a modernised V8 with a stylised dustbin fairing kicking around on the net a few years ago


Now it won't fit in any race series but aim it hyperbikes like the Hyabusa and I think they could be onto something new customer base etc etc. But again look how much debate simply going to water cooling has generated in the ultraconservative Guzzi crowd like I said in an earlier post I don't think it is a option with current emission regulations. As to going to a four valve small block design I think they would be better off with a complete redesign like they have done with the big blocks, they can't revive the lario motor it was seriously unreliable from the factory and it won't pass current emissions ever.

[Greg Field]

Let's see.... $70 million engineering cost divided by 10,000 additional sales before the market moves on... That's only $7000/bike in additional engineering cost.  

Heck if it sells like the V4 Aprilia they'll have a winner on their hands. Not.

Why change? It's been the Aprilia/Piaggio business model since the Futura and Caponord.

Exactly right on.

[gentlemanjim]

Wow - a  whole lot of conjecture from a two paragraph article.  Regardless I say I'm glad to hear Piaggio is putting $$ into Guzzi development.  I prefer aircooled, twin, carburated, chain dirven bikes, but will always buy the bike that pleases me the most despite how it is configured.  Big plus for the present Guzzi line.  Let's see what tomorrow brings.  Remember what old Abe said about Pleasing all the people all of the time.

[JohninVT`]

I'm sure there will be gnashing of teeth and strident claims that the faithful Guzzisti would never be seen dead on it while they rattle on about designers who've been dead for 30 years, etc, etc, etc.  I like it.  I dunno about the cut outs for the heads in the tank but I like the shape of the tank a lot better than the flaccid whale penis shape of the current Cali.  I'd buy one. 

So far Piaggio has heard and addressed every major complaint on the Norge and Stelvio.  They're bringing a new Cali to market.  They're exploring LC to carry the Guzzi brand into the future. 

I have no idea what they're like to deal with on the dealer level but as a consumer, I coluldn't ask for more. 

http://www.motoblog.it/post/28018/foto-spia-delle-nuove-moto-guzzi-california-e-v7-scrambler 

[JJ]

Photos are very grainy and hard to see details.  Would like to see a better shot of that V7 "Scrambler!" :) 8) ;-T

[Luap McKeever]

Kinda neat looking.  I have to wonder how much gas volume they sacrificed on that tank though.

[Lank]

$$flaccid whale penis shape$$

Freaking original!!!  if you say so.  lol

whats with the high pipes tho   thot they went out in the 70's.  I personally never liked riding high pipe bikes, so wide top heavy etc.. I have a CL Honda only one left

[JohninVT`]

Kinda neat looking.  I have to wonder how much gas volume they sacrificed on that tank though.

One way to get around that would be going the Goldwing route of using the "tank" as the airbox and putting the actual gas tank under the seat.  The seat looks pretty large and the side covers could be hiding a tank? 

[AJ Huff]

Photos are very grainy and hard to see details.  Would like to see a better shot of that V7 "Scrambler!" :) 8) ;-T

+1!

-AJ

[Dean Rose]

It's pre-production show bike, who knows what it will look like when we are allowed to have them.

Dean

[Unkept]

To me it looks like the Griso and the Cali had a child.  ;D

The V7 Scrambler.... awesome! I always loved Scramblers... lets just hope it has more than just an exhaust and knee pads added.

[gregglewis]

I agree the scrambler looks cool, the cali.... I don't like it.

[kitze2]

Interesting.
But need to see better quality pix.

[sign216]

Terrific!  Several weeks ago I suggested that Guzzi make a 750 scrambler in the fashion of Triumph.  Glad that it's happening.  I hope that tank pads can be ordered, I'd like to add them to my V7C.

Even though this is just cosmetic, it should add life to the ever-enduring smallblock.

[diablo45]

 Definitley like the Scrambler,Id have to see better pics of the Cali to decide. Not too bad though.


Sam

[samfrank]

I didn't like either of them. I bet they're for the foriegn market and never reach our shores.

[LowRyter]

" The new generation of California, by contrast, has long been the talk of the Guzzi, and only now shows in the most modern interpretations.

Reflecting the style of the latter, we see from the few photos available a clear trend that recalls the old models of Guzzi cruiser, reinterpreted in modern salsa.  A remake that seems to be well managed, from the solid front, through the brand new engine (probably some time in a brand new 3-valve) up to the tail short and catchy, son of the design of the 850 California T3 and Custom small number of the years 70/80."

I would hold the Salsa!

Don't care for the styling, the bike looks long and those notches in the tank look goofy.  Why not put that 3 valver in the Cal Vin / EV and go back to the elegant slender tanks of the 70s? 

The scrambler looks pretty neat.  I'd like to see the power upped to compete with the Bonneville.

[chuck peterson]

those look like 6" inch models to me...and why would Piaggo go through the work of building those, then not produce some solid photos to show the world.....but what do i know..

[scooterjock]

One word: Fugly.

[Dean Rose]

Maybe they're made out of wood they have done that before.


Dean