*California 1400 Merged Threadfest*

[swalker]

Getting a little impatient waiting for any news on the Cal 1400. Even governments can't keep a secret this long. Has anyone heard any rumblings as to if or when this this bike might appear? Possibly some of our European members might have some info, by virtue of being closer to the source.

Yeah...I bought the white Norge instead...I don't know...It does what they say it will do though...LOL...

[youcanrunnaked]

I'm well aware of the parallels between MG and H-D.  You guys are missing my point.

The engine architecture and drivetrain of the California 1400 is so obviously different from the H-D and Victory twins, that it is silly to claim that MG is "chasing" either of them.  It should be obvious to anyone that MG is trying to remain competitive in the marketplace while maintaining its own unique character.  MG does not chase anyone; they march to the sound of their own kazoo.

Even if MG had its sights on H-D, the target moved.  H-D just announced that the 103 cu in engine is now standard on all tourers, and on some other models as well.  So, the 1400 8V is still the runt of the litter.

OTOH, Victory... now, THERE's a company that is chasing H-D.  Mechanically, their bikes shamelessly ape the Motor Company's designs.  Even their swoopy styling smacks of one-upsmanship.

[Kev m]

Chasing HD doesn't mean shamelessly ape (at least to me).

Yamaha (Star) holds the prize for shamelessly aping Harley.

But that doesn't mean MOST "cruisers" aren't chasing Harley.

I'm not sure where I'd draw the line, but an air-cooled twin with similar lines and chrome (or a blacked out look these days) is certainly more ape (or piglet in this case) than pony.

Hondas ape em bad enough despite the water cooling.

Kawis too though for a while they aped Indian more.

Suzuki's ape em, with some odd angles thrown in for "differentiation".

Victory apes with some,  but they went their own way with the Vision.

Triumph only apes with a few models: America, Speedmaster, & new Thunderbird.

Indian, well duh.

They're all chasing a piece of the "cruiser" pie and I don't blame them for wanting it,:though I do blame some of them for unoriginality.

Honda should have kept the Magna instead of the VTX.

Yamaha should have prettied up the virago.

Triumph should have kept to the Bonnie and made a smaller R3 as their "cruiser".

I liked the BMW R1200R

The CALI never should have had a flaccid whale penis for a tank, it shoulda had an ambo/eldo look.

now all that said I think the look of this new Cali is a step in the right direction,  less chasing and more it's own way.  And maybe it's my next bike instead of that RK I've been kicking around for so long. It's only 60cc's away from my "perfect" tourer so.

I guess it's a Goldilocks thing. One's too small,;the other too big and I'm looking for JUST RIGHT.

fingers crossed.

[Chicago Mark]

Americans anyway, do tend to like big jugs held up nice and pretty.

Forza Moto Guzzi,

Mark

[dnovo]

Americans anyway, do tend to like big jugs help up nice and pretty.

Forza Moto Guzzi,

Mark

Thanks, I needed a laugh to start my day.  Dave

[Joliet Jim]

Triumph only apes with a few models: America, Speedmaster, & new Thunderbird.

The CALI never should have had a flaccid whale penis for a tank, it shoulda had an ambo/eldo look.

Normally i don't disagree with you, but I think the Triumph ape is a bit of a stretch, not like they put a vtwin in, they just made some cruisers

IF they would have put one of those butt ugly tanks on my Stone, I would be on another forum talking about my Triumph Triple.

[Mark West]

I really like the look of the new Cali from the pics and I don't see it as a HD copy at all. I do have some concerns though that will have to wait till it's out. The foot controls seem a little far forward for my taste. What kind of range will it have? What hard bags will be available, etc.

If it does have a new motor, water cooled or ???, that won't bother me but I would hold off buying one for a few years. Very difficult for a small manufacturer to get something completely right and I don't have a dealer nearby that I trust to make sure any problems get taken care of properly.

[SteveRivet]

I don't see this as much as Guzzi trying to copy H-D as much as following the model that Triumph did with their new Thunderbird, which appears to have been pretty successful, even if it isn't right up my alley.
-Steve

[Tom]

Moto Guzzi has been chasing the HD dollar since their inception of the LAPD models.  Ambassador/Eldorado, T3 and the like. 

[Kev m]

Triumph only apes with a few models: America, Speedmaster, & new Thunderbird.

The CALI never should have had a flaccid whale penis for a tank, it shoulda had an ambo/eldo look.

Normally i don't disagree with you, but I think the Triumph ape is a bit of a stretch, not like they put a vtwin in, they just made some cruisers

Yeah, but come-on you don't buy the crap that Triumph tries to sell about the America and Speedmaster (inspired by Triumph choppers of the 60s). Come on man - YES I GIVE THEM CREDIT FOR STICKING TO THEIR MOTOR, but still, forward controls, lowered chassis, raked front end - it smells, it stinks of something, oh yeah the typical Harley poserdom crap (for the record, I can't stand Harleys that are lowered, raked and forward controlled too).

The Thunderbird is worse, it's Aping a Kawasaki Vulcan 500ltd which is in turn Aping a Harley. ICK. No thanks.

[RichEV]

I will stick with my 99 EVs ...the paint jobs are the best.....Cal Vin in white is nice but tube wheels should not be on that bike...

RichEV...

[bad Chad]

What does "ape" come from?   Can't figure this one out, though it's likely staring me in the face, but I can't seem to disengage the clutch on this one.

[Lannis]

What does "ape" come from?   Can't figure this one out, though it's likely staring me in the face, but I can't seem to disengage the clutch on this one.

To "ape" is to mimic or to copy, taken from the way a monkey or ape will copy what a human does.   Usually a bit of a perjorative.

Lannis

[Chicago Mark]

Some of you guys seem to think that anyone who makes a cruiser is copying Harley. Truth be told, Harley cruisers, baggers and tourers have sort of become the standard by which many other motorcycles in those segments are compared to. Sort of like how the iPhone has become the standard by which other cell phones are compared to.

If you really think that Moto Guzzi has been chasing Harley, you must also have to agree they've been wildly unsuccessful. I think Harley likely sells more pairs of size 10 boots in California than Piaggio sells Moto Guzzis worldwide. Guzzis tend to be going their own way in most cases and for the most part, have done a good job. The more time Piaggio spends on Moto Guzzi the better the bikes become.  I suspect most current Moto Guzzi riders would bail on the marque if they became anything near as 'popular' as any Harley.

I have no axe to grind against Harley. I wish them all the continued success they can muster. I really like their touring model with the frame mounted fairing and would buy one in a minute if I had the funds available.  

YMMV,

Mark

[cruzziguzzi]

I don't understand the concern regarding copying, imitating, apeing, ripping-off and the like. Whoever said that no motorcycle or car, plane, fork or shoe should have to stand on it's own style, design or function merit beyond that which may be protected by a patent, trademark or registration of originality?

I have a friend very high up in the custom/production tactical knife trade and to listen to them blather on about some other maker manipulating a piece of steel or stone in a way that imitates them just flat cracks me up. How many different original and fundamental ways can one hold a sharpened edge with a one handed tactical tool? If you think yours is a new idea - go to a good applicable museum or library and find out different and then be sure to pass the credit back. Now I know that you can fill following posts with infinite variations on the tool but as knives go, there aren't really many patented (protectable) styles.

For bikes? excluding the obvious extreme variations - they are, by the millions; a front steering, braking and support wheel, a rear braking, power and support wheel and a frame and or engine in between. Then throw on a seat, bars and other minor stuff.

Who really cares whether a design or style is repeated? If it sells the consumer says it's valid. If it doesn't sell, the consumer says otherwise.

Another way to look at it is that one can say with a fair amount of certainty that if it weren't for competition - mimicking or otherwise - that HD would still be cranking out leaky, creaky, wallowing dinosaurs.... I've had a few and while I appreciated them on their own merit, I'm damn glad HD took note of the industry "flatterers".

[Kev m]

I wouldn't necessarily say that anyone who makes a cruiser is aping Harley, at least not in a critical way that it makes me dislike them. However, I concede that the way they sorta define the market it's not easy to do.

That said, why the concern?

Because I'm an enthusiast of motor vehicles (cycles, cars, trucks, boats etc) and as such there's an element of passion in any vehicle I like. If there's no passion - if it's an unoriginal clone that is aping someone else's success than I don't care for it.

Cars are probably harder than bikes to find what I like these days, as so many of them are just FWD bars of soap with wheels. But there are so many manufacturers that I can still find a bunch.

Subaru's for their dedication to longitudinal engined FWD and oppossed motors!
Audi for Quatro
VW for taking styling chances and for their pursuit of performance on many levels
BMW for their steadfast dedication to RWD and putting the driving experience in the forefront
Mini for performance in an economy size
Jeep for continued dedication to off-roadable vehicles

more recently for me Nissan and Mitsubishi for taking chances on styling.

But brands that do almost nothing but the same thing as each other loose me - even models from some of the above brands fall into those categories.

Now back to bikes. Same goes for them but in SPADES as the passion is even greater.

I can find something neat that I like from just about any brand, but it is NOT going to be one of the models they are aping from someone else in MOST cases. Maybe some exceptions could be argued in the W650/W800, though in that case they are at least aping themselves who aped BSA all those years ago. And as such it is something unique to the market today - i.e. a bevel drive cam vertical twin! That overshadows to me any claims of aping neo-Triumphs (not to mention they beat the neo-Trumpets to the market).

Cali's are pretty damn aped, not nearly as bad as say a typical v-twin Star, but maybe halfway there. That said, I tend to give more slack to aping style if the engine architecture is at least unique and well, the longitudinal V-twin Guzzi makes muster there, at least for me. I'm sure to others it's still aping.

So find your own line and stick to it, that's cool. You know mine.

 

[IceBlue]

That's how our 'merican friends like 'em - HUGE  :o

I like the bike though - panniers can go.

Ciao

[kirb]

I like that they broke up the formally massive gas tank with the heads, but the heads look very tall.

Should be interesting.

[guzzimike]

Looks like a Guzzified Honda Rune to me... :P

--

[Kev m]

Looks like a Guzzified Honda Rune to me... :P

 ???


REALLY, might be time to check that eyeglass perscription...  :P ;)

I kinda dig it personally, though I'm not in love with the bags.

[850tBill]

Looks like a Guzzified Honda Rune to me... :P

 ???


REALLY, might be time to check that eyeglass perscription...  :P ;)

I kinda dig it personally, though I'm not in love with the bags.

And what is there to love about the seat?

[Kev m]

Looks like a Guzzified Honda Rune to me... :P

 ???


REALLY, might be time to check that eyeglass perscription...  :P ;)

I kinda dig it personally, though I'm not in love with the bags.

And what is there to love about the seat?

The SHAPE is nice enough ;-T, but the color, not so much...  :BEER:

[JohninVT`]

I still can't figure out where the fuel is.  If it is in the usual place, it's hard to imagine there is room for 5 gallons with thos giant looking cylinders cutting through the tank.  If it's under the seat, that will result in a lot of rearward bias(which may be partly why they stretched the wheelbase?).

I love it, though I agree about the bags.  They remind me of Corbin Beetle Bags.  I'd skip those and mount a set of big Pelicans.  The old Krauser bags would look classy on the bike.  I really like the shrouded forks(or are they just black tubes like the 1200 Sport?).  Love the seat and would want a chrome rack on the back.  I hope the bike doesn't weigh more than 700lbs.  The more I look at it, the more huge it appears.  Like a stretched and lowered Road King.    

    

[Travman]

The bags don't bother me. I've always kinda of liked Corbin's beetle bags on certain Japanese motorcycles. They never seem to look right on Harleys though.

The bike does look super long. They need to take about a foot out of the middle. Also, the engine's visual mass has increased especially around & under the alternator area. Perhaps the engine would look better and less massive if it was painted black.

[Kev m]

Visually I'd prefer the negative of this bike.

I like dark wheels and motor, and light bodywork...


...but that's probably not a deal breaker.

[Rainman]

I still can't figure out where the fuel is.  If it is in the usual place, it's hard to imagine there is room for 5 gallons with thos giant looking cylinders cutting through the tank.      

The fuel is probably in the fuel tank.
If you look at Paul Minnaert's pictures they have changed the intake. The air filter looks like it's under the seat now.

With a Cali if you just remove the air filter cover and add a plate to the lower part of the tank to use the space it adds about a gallon.

The seat is the standard Cali Skunk seat. :BEER:
The bags match the bike.  ;-T

The bike does look super long. They need to take about a foot out of the middle. Also, the engine's visual mass has increased especially around & under the alternator area. Perhaps the engine would look better and less massive if it was painted black.

I always thought increasing the Cali's wheel base would make it a better for 2-up. By taking some of the weight off the rear wheel.
And the motor is supposed to look big.  ;D

The floor boards look to far forward for me. But for the cruiser market they're probably about right. ~;

[Mark West]

I like the overall look, but the floorboards that far forward would likely be a deal breaker for me. Hopefully they'll have a sportier version with pegs in a more appropriate place.

[Kev m]

I like the overall look, but the floorboards that far forward would likely be a deal breaker for me. Hopefully they'll have a sportier version with pegs in a more appropriate place.

They do look a bit too far forward...

[JJ]

I resized this spy shot of the new prototype. The original (hat tip rocker59!) was foreshortened by the angle and I stretched it out a bit to look right.



That motor looks big!

I dunno...... ???...looks like a biggie....tough to judge sometimes by photo alone....will have to see one in person.  Are they coming to the USA?  "An Italian Road King..."  :) 8) ;-T ;-T

[Moto Chuggin]

As beautiful as this Moto Guzzi is and inticing with that big mill, I can't consider buying a new Guzzi until they catch up with the other brands and go with modern shocks and a suitable two-up seat for long-distance rally bopping.