*California 1400 Merged Threadfest*

[Oca]

Well since a £1 doesn't equal $1, they're not the "same" - right?

BUT if you're suggesting perhaps the US model will be $14.5k I think you're probably optimistic, but I sure hope you're right.  :BEER:

You are correct, it is not a 1 to 1 ratio.  I was just bringing up the fact that it was strange that the price of coffee at Starbucks was the same number (not value) in London and CA.  The price of the car (again, not value) had the identical number.

Just thought it was strange.

Now of course when the Pound was $2.00, that £32,000.00 vehicle was very dear.

[Kev m]

You are correct, it is not a 1 to 1 ratio.  I was just bringing up the fact that it was strange that the price of coffee at Starbucks was the same number (not value) in London and CA.  The price of the car (again, not value) had the identical number.

Just thought it was strange.

Now of course when the Pound was $2.00, that £32,000.00 vehicle was very dear.

HOLY CRAP that would be an expensive Clubman...

It is interesting.

I am curious where the price will fall.... time will tell.

Now someone get ahold of and post that spec sheet!!!  P:)

[Oca]

What are the V7C's going for in the UK?  That would be an interesting comparison.

[Oca]

What are the V7C's going for in the UK?  That would be an interesting comparison.

Never mind,  I see Corsa Italiana has them for under 7K.

[Kev m]

Never mind,  I see Corsa Italiana has them for under 7K.

V7 Stone - £6330 vs. $8499

Doesn't bode well for Cali pricing...

[Pfaff!]

V7 Stone - £6330 vs. $8499

Doesn't bode well for Cali pricing...

Guess the UK prices are inclusive all taxes (VAT). Hows about US ?  :pop

[Kev m]

Guess the UK prices are inclusive all taxes (VAT). Hows about US ?  :pop

No EDIT - I THOUGHT that was the base US MSRP vs base UK MSRP, no taxes or fees, but looking again, I think you might be right.

[Avvocato]

Maybe they meant Lire ;D HA!HA!

[rocker59]

No that was the base US MSRP vs base UK MSRP, no taxes or fees.

The 17% VAT is usually included in the "base" price of anything in the UK.

[Kev m]

The 17% VAT is usually included in the "base" price of anything in the UK.

Yeah, I think you're right, I think I looked at the website too quick -

http://www.corsaitaliana.com/

[youcanrunnaked]

By my reckoning, a straight conversion of UK pricing to US dollars, after deducting the VAT, yields a $20,149 price tag. Yikes!

There's no way Moto Guzzi is going to get more for the California 1400 than Harley Davidson gets for a Road King, even if we are talking about the deluxe model.  If they want to sell them here, US customers are going to have to see prices in the $15,000 - $18,000 range, or lower. We seem to get lower prices here than in Europe for the same goods, so that kind of pricing for the new Cali is still possible.

Maybe Piaggio Group thinks it can price the new Cali at twenty grand, just like a Ducati Diavel or Multistrada S Touring, or a fully-optioned Harley tourer, but I don't think it will sell at that price.

 

[bad Chad]

You guys are nuts to think that Piaggio is going to come out with a totally new Cali, designed to compete head on with Road King type bikes, and then turn around and sell it for $14999.   I have said all along this bike is going to cost more than any other Guzzi, for a number of reasons.  One is, it is more than any other Guzzi, two it will compete with more costly bikes like the Road King, and three, charge more for it, makes it worth more, as long as they can sell enough.

The bike is going to start at close to $17, out the door loaded for bear, over $20, you heard it here first.

Keep in mind their market push with this bike is to get new riders on Guzzi, not get the old boys still riding 850Ts to pop for one. :)

[Kev m]

You're probably right, but i was still hoping for a base closer to $15-16k.

[JohninVT`]

If list is 15k on a 30 year old design(CalVin) why on earth would they put a 15K MSRP on a completely new Cali?  Of course it will be 18k. 

[Kev m]

If list is 15k on a 30 year old design(CalVin) why on earth would they put a 15K MSRP on a completely new Cali?  Of course it will be 18k. 

Because the market rejected the Cal Vin at that price.

[rocker59]

Because the market rejected the Cal Vin at that price.

 :+1

Based on the actual selling price of the new California Vintages vs. the MSRP, and how few were sold in relation to other Guzzi models, I'd say they overshot the MSRP target by a factor of about 33% on the Cal Vin.

To get someone to try something new and different and unusual, the seller needs to offer something to the buyer.  Road King being the obvious target of the new bike, Guzzi needs to offer a price advantage to the buyer, since Guzzi cannot compete with the Road King's 20 year reputation as the benchmark of the niche.

Guzzi can say it's a premium product.  They can say it's worth whatever price they choose to hang on it.  The market will decide what the true value is, just like they did with other Guzzis in the recent past.

[rboe]

With dealers only ordering what they think they can sell, and MG only building what is ordered the market should be a wee bit kinder on the price. With no huge pile of unsold stock at fire sale prices to devalue the bike in our hands in in the show rooms they should be able to command a bit more money. A bit. How much remains to be seen. Trickle them out, sell them to non-traditional Guzzi buyers (i.e. not cheap old bastards) and it just may fly!  ;D

[Chicago Mark]

Because the market rejected the Cal Vin at that price.

Bingo! I said a month ago the Cal 90 will be $10k once the Cal 1400 shows up. I may be over estimating the Cal 90 value. Likely closer to $9k to move the ones that are here. Which will make late model used CalVin's closer to $8500.

Someone looking for a Harley Road King (or similar) at close to $20 grand is simply not the customer for this new Cali IMHO. Possibly the same for a potential Victory buyer. Piaggio may be thinking they are, but they're just not. A Harley buyer buys a Harley simply because it's a Harley. That's what the herd buys, so that's what they want. Most (not all) don't and won't consider another brand. The target market for this bike is likely going to be Triumph, Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki and maybe even someone looking for a used BMW. But if Piaggio can't even attract or won't even consider the blind faithful Guzzi rider, well, good luck to them in this economy.

Time will tell,

Mark 

[Mark West]

I suspect the price will be high at introduction. The reason being is that there are a certain number of people that want the "latest" thing and will pay a premium. Once they feel like they have gone through that group, the price will be adjusted to what they believe is realistic to meet whatever sales targets they have.

Or at least I hope they are realistic. Overpricing bikes just perpetuates the end of year closeout buyer habits that have plagued Guzzi for decades.

[bad Chad]

I disagree with your take Mark.   Yes, most Harley Road King buyers will not take a hard look at the Cal, but it is a relatively huge demo, and all MG has to do is peal off a tiny percentage to make the new bike a hit.   The kind of HD rider who I think would be a likely Cal buyer is the long time older affluent rider who has had 3 RKs and is now looking for something different, but still in the same vain.   

If the bike proves itself to be good looking, quick, and great handling, then I think MG has a good chance to sell hundreds in the US next year, we will see.

[bpreynolds]

If the bike proves itself to be good looking, quick, and great handling, then I think MG has a good chance to sell hundreds in the US next year, we will see.

Not disagreeing with you, but aren't those the same qualities the Calvin displayed against it's rivals?  Regardless, I hope they sell bunches, quite obviously.

[bad Chad]

No, the Cal Vin was two small, and old fashioned to compete head to head with the big boys, not the reality, but the perception.

[Chicago Mark]

I disagree with your take Mark.   Yes, most Harley Road King buyers will not take a hard look at the Cal, but it is a relatively huge demo, and all MG has to do is peal off a tiny percentage to make the new bike a hit.   The kind of HD rider who I think would be a likely Cal buyer is the long time older affluent rider who has had 3 RKs and is now looking for something different, but still in the same vain.  

If the bike proves itself to be good looking, quick, and great handling, then I think MG has a good chance to sell hundreds in the US next year, we will see.

     I don't think we really disagree by much Chad. But that tiny percentage of the affluent multi time HD Road King buyer has years and years of mostly very favorable memories. Along with a closet or two of Motor Company clothng etc. They're used to being treated a certain way by their local Harley dealer as well. If you can get that small percentage to look at Moto Guzzi you're doing great. Then that same small percentage, with their years of favorable Harley customer service and camaraderie has to find a Guzzi dealer and actually show up.  
     There are a small handfull of Guzzi dealers whose door I would walk through and I've been an enthusiastic Guzzi owner for over 30 years. Just what do you think that older affluent, multi time Harley rider/buyer will think after walking into some of todays Piaggio/Vespa/Moto Guzzi/used car dealers around the country?
     Heck, I keep finding myself in Harley dealers so what do I know. I was fondly looking at an absolutely beautiful red and black 2010 Street Glide Ultra Classic yesterday in Rockford. If it were a Road Glide Ultra, I may not have been able to stop myself. But I really need to remember I'm tapped out and to stop dreaming of another new motorcycle right now. My next one will likely be a 3 for 1 deal anyway.

All the best,

Mark

[Digitaltown]

No EDIT - I THOUGHT that was the base US MSRP vs base UK MSRP, no taxes or fees, but looking again, I think you might be right.

The UK prices are the on the road prices, they include tax and registration, basically the price you pay to ride it out of the showroom.

Historically in the UK we have always had a price comparison with the US of £1 = $1 as that seems to be what you actually buy stuff for in the US compared to UK and is a good rule ofthumb for vehicles, computers, clothes etc.

This does have a downside if you want a Harley in the UK as prices can get a it crazy.

I really hope the new cali does well but at the price point they are looking at it puts the bike amoung a very select group of bikes. Just had a look at the price for the Rocket 3 touring as a comparison in case the cali price is a dressed version. Rocket 3 touring is £13,500 and they do sell OK allthough not as well as the standard Rocket 3.

For me it's pushed the bike outside of what I'm willing to pay.

[Dogwalker]

No more time for prototypes.

Definitive bike, at least for the touring version. Picture taken in Genova, where the bike was to be photographed for the official catalog.

[bpreynolds]

No more time for prototypes.

Definitive bike, at least for the touring version. Picture taken in Genova, where the bike was to be photographed for the official catalog.

Wow.   Okay, I'm back in the boat.  That is sharp.  Love the striping on the tank.  Total and complete picking of the nits here but I still am not crazy about those sidecovers but I'm sure I wouldn't care in person.  Any more photos from this?

[Kev m]

The UK prices are the on the road prices, they include tax and registration, basically the price you pay to ride it out of the showroom.

Historically in the UK we have always had a price comparison with the US of £1 = $1 as that seems to be what you actually buy stuff for in the US compared to UK and is a good rule ofthumb for vehicles, computers, clothes etc.

This does have a downside if you want a Harley in the UK as prices can get a it crazy.

I really hope the new cali does well but at the price point they are looking at it puts the bike amoung a very select group of bikes. Just had a look at the price for the Rocket 3 touring as a comparison in case the cali price is a dressed version. Rocket 3 touring is £13,500 and they do sell OK allthough not as well as the standard Rocket 3.

For me it's pushed the bike outside of what I'm willing to pay.

Is that really an accurate rule of thumb though?

I mean with economies rising and falling, exchange rates changing, it’s gotta be a very loose comparison.

Here are some current figures:

Harley Iron 883
US - $7999
UK - £6695

Harley Street Bob
US - $12,999
UK - £10,495

Harley Road King Classic
US - $17,395
UK - £19,899

I’d like to note that the BMW UK website lists MSRP WITHOUT VAT, but also lists the total on the road price which I am using here to keep the figures the same as the other brand comparisons.

BMW R1200RT
US - $17,350
UK - £12,695  (base msrp is about £10k, about £2k VAT, and £355 OTR charges)

K1600GT
US - $20,900
UK - £15,740 (base msrp is about £12k, about £2.6k VAT, and £355 OTR charges)

Triumph R3
US - $14,999
UK - £12,529

Triumph R3 Tourer
US - $16,999
UK - £13,529

Personally, I’m not seeing it.

Now Harley seems to be an anomaly here, both because it is the one that is made in the US and exported to the EU, but also because it appears (that at least with some models, like the RKC) they are just RAPING their EU customers for every dime the market can bear.

I mean, jeez, if the dollar is weak against the pound you would expect they COULD be cheaper than the US, or at least competitive, but look at the swing in prices (I guess we have to remember VAT makes up much of the swing on the cheaper models). But the RK classic at $17,395 is only £10,733 with exchange, and so maybe £2.5k in VAT, means £6k or so in additional profit.  :o

For BMW or Triumph there is more of an equalization – i.e. the US price in dollars is a larger number to help make up the difference between the dollar and pound, but the UK Harley prices (if you exchanged currency) are thousands higher than in the US.

Now, IF we see a pattern in the BMW and Triumph prices (and in the Triumph I picked what might be the new Cali’s closest competitor other than the RK), one might make a guess as the following:


California Custom
US - $16,999 (<--SWAG)
UK - £14,499

Cali 1400 Tourer
US - $17,999 (<--SWAG)
UK - £16,529 (<--SWAG)

This would price is at about RK levels (note the RK is priced slightly different from the RK classic priced above, it goes for $17,699-18,504).

[Kev m]

No more time for prototypes.

Definitive bike, at least for the touring version. Picture taken in Genova, where the bike was to be photographed for the official catalog.

OK, that looks MUCH BETTER!!!

[sbaker]

No more time for prototypes.

Definitive bike, at least for the touring version. Picture taken in Genova, where the bike was to be photographed for the official catalog.

WOW... that is a great looking cruiser... Right up there with HD, Trump, and the UJMs

[Gary]

WOW. A stunning bike. Much nicer than the prototype pics. Count me in as a potential buyer.