Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..

[Chuck in Indiana]

or have a look at elefant foot adjusters.
i read somewhere the husaberg adjusters have the same thread as the lario rockers .
i havent tried them myself, so i dont know for sure if they fit

Good idea..

[Chuck in Indiana]

I'm not sure about the elephant foot adjusters.. there may not be enough room for them without shimming the rocker pedestal. Called the guy at RD, told him that with a file, I'm guessing these lash caps are around RC 45-50, and I'd think they oughta be RC 58-60. He said, "You're right, I'll go check some and get back to you." Didn't call back, then I realized our phone service was tits up.. they'll fix it in 5 days.  ::) Just to be safe, I ordered a set of Manley lash caps from Jegs
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/KeywordSearchCmd?storeId=10001&catalogId=10002&langId=-1&Ntk=all&Jnar=0&itemPerPage=60&Ne=1%2B2%2B3%2B13%2B1147708&searchTerm=660-42263-8
for cheap with FREE shipping. (Guzzi content)
While waiting for the new ones to arrive, we might as well go ahead and helicoil this head.
M10 X1 Helicoil kit. As you can see, the inserts I have are too long, but since I have the head off anyway, I'm going to use them.

 
You're going to need a T handle tap wrench. Cutting fluid for aluminum is kerosene based, so it will work in a pinch if you don't have any. For you UK guys, it's paraffin. For an old Indiana farmer in the 50's it's coal oil, pronounced "core oryl." Don't ask me why we used to call it coal oil, I have no idea. At any rate, the special tap fits the old boogered up threads, and helps to keep the whole works perpendicular.

This is about half  :o of the chips that are cut when doing this. Are you sure that you can get them all with the vacuum blowing, grease on the tap, etc. ?? I just wouldn't use that method unless it is totally impractical to pull the head. JMHO. Btw, yes, I know it's running rich. I'll address that eventually.  ;D

The insert fits on the insertion gizmo, and is screwed in until the last thread is just below the plug sealing surface. If I had used the proper length insert, all that would be left to do is break off the drive tang, and I'd be done. But. I'd have to drive to town, and no doubt coff coff... buy some inserts. Since the head is off, I'll use what I have.

We don't want these stainless threads sticking out in the combustion chamber getting hot and causing pre ignition, so.. a high speed grinder and wheel

makes short work of it.

Cutting each individual coil and carefully picking them out with tweezers and duckbills gets rid of the excess. Chamfered the sharp edge.

and it's ready to go back on after much cleaning and blowing.
Oh. Some new bling. I searched Ebay for Lario, and the first thing that popped up was this.. I thought it might be a sign from above. Or Pete.. ;D

Had to have em.. ;D

[Mark West]

So those are special grenade valve stem caps just for the Lario then. Brilliant

Funny how on ebay you can search on the most rare and unusual make model of car, truck, or motorcycle and find so many accessories for them ;D

[Chuck in Indiana]

Ok, the new Manley Lash caps came in today. Let's get at it, time's wasting. The valve stem where the adjuster had worn through was pretty beat up. I took a fine file  ::) to it to bodge the new lash cap on. The instructions with the new Manley lash caps say that you need a minimum of .020" between the cap and the valve lock. Got it. By the way...if this was an airplane, I wouldn't do this kind of thing. I can walk pretty well, but can't fly at all..  ;D Yes, I tested them with a file, they are harder.. ;D

Torqued the heads, and adjusted the valves. I don't remember anyone saying that you should adjust both valves at the same time on a 4 valve, so I'll say that..

Rotate the engine 270 degrees to Dis side, and have a look. Of course, I expected these to be the same, they are. I can't recommend the R&D lash caps..

[Chuck in Indiana]

The E ring was on the middle notch. Moving it up one will lean out the mid range a little.

Now, let's fit up these nasty looking mufflers. Right side looks ok, with barely enough clearance.

The left side needs a spacer a little over 1/4" thick. Sure, I could put washers behind it, but that is sort of shade tree.. found a piece of 3/4" aluminum..that's al u mineum to you UK guys.  ;D

Fired up the toy lathe..

Took this picture with my third hand. When using a parting tool, you need to keep feeding the tool in while dripping cutting fluid on it. Trust me..

That should do it..

How long did that take? Less time than telling about it. ;) Now, I'll have to find a longer metric bolt. That'll probably require a trip to town.

[kevdog3019]

How do you know it's only rich in the mid-range?  Looks like you added a couple notches to that needle?  I have Lario specific Bubs.  Your's are different. Look a tad bigger diameter.
-Kevin

[Chuck in Indiana]

How do you know it's only rich in the mid-range?  Looks like you added a couple notches to that needle?  I have Lario specific Bubs.  Your's are different. Look a tad bigger diameter.
-Kevin

Well, the mid range is where it spends most of it's life. It is running without issue, but it's obvious that it's running rich. I went from a 130 to 125 main already. Mileage is 45, I'm guessing that it's 10% too rich. The needle and needle jet aren't stock. That's a K22 needle. It has 45 idle jets, probably a little too rich, too. I haven't fooled with jetting too much, thinking that the aero engine will be going in before long. I'll have a look at the lash caps after coming back from the Kentucky rally. If they are getting beat up, too.. I'll consider it a sign that Carlo wants me to put that Aero engine in.. ;D
The Bubs were originally for a Monza.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Back together, cleaned up, and ready for the Kentucky rally.  ;D I'm still a fan.
Gratuitous pix.. 

[FGO]

Can do. Loaded and ready. Now if the wx will just cooperate..

Chuck,
Is the plane that used to be a tricycle gear and you modded into a tail dragger?  did you do this on an STC?

[LowRyter]

Chuck,

reminds me of when I picked up the Greenie from Brad ("the Kid").  He told me you were going to tour the NW Rockies with that Lario.  He told me that it was the least reliable Guzzi on the road.  All told with a "nod and a wink".  <shrug>

BTW- the Greenie has 30k on it and is till my favorite bike.  (I still haven't been able to find a Cal 14 that I could ever buy & get home- it might never happen). Someday the Greenie aspires (whispers to me) that she plans to be faster than the Mighty Scura.  

How's Brad getting along with his Griso??  

 ;D

[Chuck in Indiana]

Chuck,
Is the plane that used to be a tricycle gear and you modded into a tail dragger?  did you do this on an STC?

Oh, yeah. There's a ton of STCs on the Colt. Lots of speed mods.. gap seals, fairings, etc. Usta be a nose dragger.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Chuck,

reminds me of when I picked up the Greenie from Brad ("the Kid").  He told me you were going to tour the NW Rockies with that Lario.  He told me that it was the least reliable Guzzi on the road.  All told with a "nod and a wink".  <shrug>

BTW- the Greenie has 30k on it and is till my favorite bike.  (I still haven't been able to find a Cal 14 that I could ever buy & get home- it might never happen). Someday the Greenie aspires (whispers to me) that she plans to be faster than the Mighty Scura. 

How's Brad getting along with his Griso?? 

 ;D

Loves it, still. Needless to say, he's "molested" it.  ;D Runs, handles bitchin..

Someday the Greenie aspires (whispers to me) that she plans to be faster than the Mighty Scura. 

As Granny tits used to say, "Wish in one hand, sh!t in the other. See which one fills up first.."  ~; ;D :BEER:

[IceBlue]

I'm in awe Chuck!



I have used the Guzzi version, of the caps and seen nothing like this - I do however have RD i my Silver Streak project, and in a 750 4V spare mill for my Targa. I'll let them stay there but keep and eye on them. Did the valve stem survive on the china valve to be reused - enough stem above the spring lock collets? I'll ship another valve to you if not.

Good info, I'll drop the RD caps - at least the first version of the 5,5mm caps with a deep sleeve - a new version came out with a shorter sleeve much like the Guzzi version, hope they are better - who are your other source? email / web site?

[Chuck in Indiana]

I'm in awe Chuck!



I have used the Guzzi version, of the caps and seen nothing like this - I do however have RD i my Silver Streak project, and in a 750 4V spare mill for my Targa. I'll let them stay there but keep and eye on them. Did the valve stem survive on the china valve to be reused - enough stem above the spring lock collets? I'll ship another valve to you if not.

Good info, I'll drop the RD caps - at least the first version of the 5,5mm caps with a deep sleeve - a new version came out with a shorter sleeve much like the Guzzi version, hope they are better - who are your other source? email / web site?

Hiya Brian!

I ordered a set of Manley lash caps from Jegs
http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/KeywordSearchCmd?storeId=10001&catalogId=10002&langId=-1&Ntk=all&Jnar=0&itemPerPage=60&Ne=1%2B2%2B3%2B13%2B1147708&searchTerm=660-42263-8
for cheap with FREE shipping. (Guzzi content)

The jury is still out. I put it together and the next day rode 200 miles to the Kentucky rally, played Lario in the hills that weekend  ;D and back. Haven't had time to give them a look, yet.

Did the valve stem survive on the china valve to be reused - enough stem above the spring lock collets? I'll ship another valve to you if not.

Barely.  ;D It's on the previous page, too. Thanks for the offer, though!

[IceBlue]

Have you had time to check the new lash caps Chuck?   :)

[Chuck in Indiana]

Have you had time to check the new lash caps Chuck?   :)

Not yet. Dorcia is having some medical issues, and we're running to doctors practically every day.

[Unkept]

Not yet. Dorcia is having some medical issues, and we're running to doctors practically every day.

Sorry to hear that Chuck. :/ I hope Dorcia gets better soon, you two are some of my favorite kind of people. :)

-Joe

[kevdog3019]

Yes, sorry to hear about Dorcia.  She unfortunately is not someone you can fix yourself.  ;)  Best with the issues.
-Kevin

[Chuck in Indiana]

Just an update to add to the collective knowledge of Larios. What we've learned:
(1) They are more fun than a guy oughta be allowed to have.  ;D
(2) Locktite is your friend.
(3) The side covers are extremely fragile. In just a few thousand miles three of the mounting studs have broken. They should be beefed up with several layups of fiberglass.
(4) Absolutely put relays on the high and low beams to keep the switch gear from melting down.
(5) If it is pre 87, *do* the rear drive mod.
(6) Even with using a vertical pipe with a bend in it, if you carry a passenger without resetting the preload on the back shock the transmission will spew a fine mist all over the back of the bike. Yuck..what a mess.  ;D  I'm pretty sure that is where the whole problem with fluid loss occurs. I never had another problem after faithfully setting the preload.
(7) The Kenda Challenger rear is a good match for the stickiness of the front Sport Demon, but the Mighty Lario ate it up in short order.  ~;
(7+) Brian's valves and progressive valve springs "may' be the answer.. the jury is still out. Here's what we know.. the original lash caps that Brian posted are too soft. Avoid them like the plague. The Manley lash caps are apparently ok, as long as the valve stems haven't been damaged by the original lash caps. *If* there is room for them, the elephant foot adjusters mentioned in this thread would be a great addition.
As much as I would like to experiment some more with it though, I'll have to hand over the reins to someone else. The Aero engine is going in it.
Gratuitous pix:  ;D

Damage to the Manley lash cap because of the previous lash cap failure..

Previously damaged valve stem.

This engine is a hoot to operate.  ;D The carbs and ignition were dialed in as well as I can do it. Plugs look like this after a 600 mile trip.

So, the Beater Lario is off to a (hopefully) short hibernation while fitting up the Aero engine.. stay tuned. ;)

[tiger_one]

Finished reading this tonight.  I have a big ole LeBlond, timing light (same one), and bandsaw, also the gas welding rig, and tig.  Learning all this other stuff (lario) is scary stuff.  I just need to get off of this new bike kick I have landed on some how.

Great do it and teach thread.  The internet is excellent for this stuff!  thanks.

[IceBlue]

Just an update to add to the collective knowledge of Larios. What we've learned:
(1) They are more fun than a guy oughta be allowed to have.  ;-T ;-T ;-T
(7+) Brian's valves and progressive valve springs "may' be the answer.. the jury is still out. Here's what we know.. the original lash caps that Brian posted are too soft. Avoid them like the plague. The Manley lash caps are apparently ok, as long as the valve stems haven't been damaged by the original lash caps. *If* there is room for them, the elephant foot adjusters mentioned in this thread would be a great addition.

Thanks for the writeup Chuck - my red Lario has the original Guzzi caps and they seem to have some stamina but not good enough, unfortunately I bought quite a few of the RD VALVE SPRING versions  :-[ and have them in two restored 8V mills not yet on the road. I did buy 8 additional caps from RD after my initial batch, and they are of a different design and have shorter sleeves - looks like yours - so I'll stay away from the RD caps all together. Perhaps my initial batch works - yet I'll have to keep an eye peeled on them when starting up these mills. The solution below is very interesting - but room is an issue as you mentioned. The Husqvarna SM 610 part number seem to be 8A00 79058 - but I have no confirmation. So if anyone has access to Husqvarna parts, this could be interesting information.

Ciao

[Chuck in Indiana]

Thanks for that, Brian..

[kevdog3019]

Why not try Kibblewhite?  You pay for what you get sometimes.
Kevin

[Chuck in Indiana]

Why not try Kibblewhite?  You pay for what you get sometimes.
Kevin

Well, we don't actually *know* that your solution is going to work long term, either. <shrug> Get out there and put 10K miles on it this year..  ;D Report back in 3 years.. ;D :BEER:

[kevdog3019]

I'm just saying Kibblewhite has a pretty good reputation. Ed would probably know that they are quality parts <shrug>. I suspect since they're down the road from him he has used them for years. I would also suspect he uses them in his own racers. I'm pretty confident in his research. Pricey/yes.
 
We're talking lash caps here, not sum of the parts working as a whole on a bike that's been re-engineered. That's a different story and an unknown so far. That I agree with.

I will admit, I didn't have Ed put anything in my bike questioning if it's quality stuff, so my advice comes from his research not my own.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Kev, I know Kibblewhite is quality stuff, that's a given. Megacycle is a good cam manufacturer, too, and they gave up on the Lario. I'm just saying that we don't know what it's going to take to be reliable. No one has put big miles on anything.

[Antietam Classic Cycle]

Kev, I know Kibblewhite is quality stuff, that's a given. Megacycle is a good cam manufacturer, too, and they gave up on the Lario. I'm just saying that we don't know what it's going to take to be reliable. No one has put big miles on anything.

Yep. Racing use vs. road use. Only time and thousands of miles will tell.

[lucky phil]

Thanks for the writeup Chuck - my red Lario has the original Guzzi caps and they seem to have some stamina but not good enough, unfortunately I bought quite a few of the RD VALVE SPRING versions  :-[ and have them in two restored 8V mills not yet on the road. I did buy 8 additional caps from RD after my initial batch, and they are of a different design and have shorter sleeves - looks like yours - so I'll stay away from the RD caps all together. Perhaps my initial batch works - yet I'll have to keep an eye peeled on them when starting up these mills. The solution below is very interesting - but room is an issue as you mentioned. The Husqvarna SM 610 part number seem to be 8A00 79058 - but I have no confirmation. So if anyone has access to Husqvarna parts, this could be interesting information.

Ciao

I'm looking for a set of the elephants foot adjusters for the Daytona engine i'm building at the moment. What is the valve gear in the photo? these may work.
The thread in the daytona rocker arms is 7mm X 0.75mm.
Can anyone offer any suggestions?
Ciao

[kevdog3019]

Kev, I know Kibblewhite is quality stuff, that's a given. Megacycle is a good cam manufacturer, too, and they gave up on the Lario. I'm just saying that we don't know what it's going to take to be reliable. No one has put big miles on anything.

Guess I don't understand the the comparison of Megacycle cams to Kibblewhite caps. Why did Megacycle quit making cams for the Lario? 

[Chuck in Indiana]

Guess I don't understand the the comparison of Megacycle cams to Kibblewhite caps. Why did Megacycle quit making cams for the Lario? 

They blew up, too. As far as I know, nobody has a definitive answer..