Lario rehab project begins. What we've learned..

[Chuck in Indiana]

Putting some 1  2 3 blocks on the table, locating the rotor on 3 of the mounting tabs and lightly clamping it will give a good representation of what it will be like bolted up on the wheel. First, indicate the OD to get on center. BTW, this rotor is worn .003" more toward the center than the outside.

Normal runout tolerance is .002 to .003, and this one is fine.

Put the second one on, indicate it up, and swing it..

No problemo. Finally! Something that doesn't need fixed.  ;D Waiting on a parts order, so may as well start putting things back on. Shiny handgrips. Won't be able to see them when the bodywork is on, but they won't be sitting there quietly rusting, either.  ;)

Probably, this tailpiece, which was the worst of the bodywork, will make the rest look bad. <shrug>

Started to clean up the taillight, and meh, it's cracked. I hear that whistle blowing, so we'll fix that after lunch.

[IceBlue]

You have the original stock tail light glass with the "wings"  ;-T - not available any more - only the version without wings, which makes the tail piece screws visible. Make sure the screws are good and tight, I already lost one with the "wings".

Great you rotors are straight;-T  I still get shaken and a little stirred by mine  ;D

I admire your patience documenting every step you take ;-T
This will help a great number of Lariophiles to come.  ;-T :bow

[IceBlue]

Chuck
What would you call this tool in English?



This would be good to determine cranck bearing play...or?

[Chuck in Indiana]

Chuck
What would you call this tool in English?



This would be good to determine cranck bearing play...or?

It's called a dial indicator. This one reads in thousandths of an inch, the most common. You could check end play on a crank easily enough. It's a basic tool for setting up machine tools, measuring, etc.

[Chuck in Indiana]

You have the original stock tail light glass with the "wings"  - not available any more - only the version without wings, which makes the tail piece screws visible. Make sure the screws are good and tight, I already lost one with the "wings".

Yeah, Guzzi being Guzzi, they just sonic welded a couple of wings on lenses they already had.. ;D
Let's fix this one.
Industrial stuff..

"Every Junkie's like the setting sun.." :o

Suck up a little glue in your kit, hold the crack together, and apply a very small amount to the crack. You will see it flow by capillary action and bond the crack if it fits well. You can see the repair, but you have to look for it.

I'm waiting on a parts order,and am officially starting to look for stuff to do.  ;D Might as well clean up the valve covers for the last time and put new o rings on them.

Pour oil liberally on the working parts, no need for a dry startup.

Put the covers on, and that'll finish that part. Let's do the front, now. Clean the crank taper with your hand, and the rotor with your finger. Skin is about the best thing for this.

Hmmm. Missing a picture of the stator installation. Just pull up the brushes and slide it on. Use your special Guzzi tool, cleverly disguised as a big hunker screwdriver in the timing inspection hole to lock the flywheel to tighten the rotor screw.
Take the advance mechanism to the parts washer and clean it well. A little lube goes a long way, but get it working smoothly.

Pay attention, the Dyna gizmo can be installed backwards. Hold the advance in your hand with the arrow at 6 oclock, and install the pickup with the magnet pointing left.

Line it up with your previously installed marks.. you *did* do that, didn't you?  ;D
and here is another of those tools that a guy's just gotta have. A screw starter makes for a simple job of getting those pesky screws installed.

Plug in the three yellow wires, doesn't matter in what order, put the purple on the brushes, and the blue on the stator. Nothing goes on the bottom connection, as many have found out to their chagrin..  ;) including the DPO..

Looks like that's it for today, it's beer o'clock.. :BEER:

[balvenie]

These pics are a Feast ;-T

[lucky phil]

Should have stop drilled that tail light lense Chuck.......it'll continue cracking for sure.
Ciao

[Chuck in Indiana]

Should have stop drilled that tail light lense Chuck.......it'll continue cracking for sure.
Ciao

I'll give it 50/50.  ;D You have to drill the hole at the very end of the crack, which is almost always farther than you think. The beauty of this extremely thin solvent is that it wicks to the end of the crack and bonds. Trying to stop drill something like this one is hit or miss, IMHO.

[s_ellinson]

I can remember the tail light lenses from LM IV days - i was always convinced then that they'd just glued somme extra bits on the end. Guzzi always were built down to a price in some departments and by the time you get into the 80s, that was showing by their use of the cheapest forks and shocks around. Mind you, they're still a mile better than the rest.

Keep up the good work!

[Chuck in Indiana]

I can remember the tail light lenses from LM IV days - i was always convinced then that they'd just glued somme extra bits on the end. Guzzi always were built down to a price in some departments and by the time you get into the 80s, that was showing by their use of the cheapest forks and shocks around. Mind you, they're still a mile better than the rest.

Keep up the good work!

No doubt, that's what they did. To me, it's part of the allure of them. It was obviously a small company doing the best they could with limited resources, and doing it very well..
Unfortunately, I took a 10 power glass and looked at this crack, and it appears to head into the sonic welded area. <shrug> There's no way to find the end of it.

[Chuck in Indiana]

Still waiting for parts, so continued tinkering around doing a little of this and that. Decided to fill and bleed the brakes. Used my repurposed Cajun injector and filled the brake reservoir through the system. Did the front first, then the rear. Had some pedal, but it was still needing to be bled. As Morizzi said, a clear hose on the reservoir to the master cylinder helps. You can see that air bubble. Put my vacuum pump on the front, did it, then the back. I've already shown pix of this operation, but here's my invisible assistant, who worked the pedal for me.

The plugs look just fine, thank you, so no need to tear down the carbs to fix something that ain't broke.. ;D

Just took them off and gave them a cosmetic cleaning.

Probably ought to fix this, it powers the ignition.  ::)

Another of those tools that makes work easy. An aircraft crimper gives perfect crimps every time.

Thought surely I'd have some aluminum tubing for the transmission vent, but found some copper no doubt from a derelict 30s or 40s airplane. Cleaned it up with some scotch brite.

And bent it up.

Cut it off plenty long, and after the carbs, etc are mounted, will hook it to the vent with a rubber hose and it will go up and (hopefully) condense the oil vapor.

Took a look at the headers, but they're not going to clean up. Is there some kind of header paint that will hold up?

[Gregory Bender]

Took a look at the headers, but they're not going to clean up. Is there some kind of header paint that will hold up?

Back when I owned my Quota, I bought one of Price Sloan's header pipe set ups. This was before Price was working in Stainless Steel and so I needed to paint the regular old rust-prone steel. I used Rustoleum BBQ paint. Be ready for some burn off when you first start and run the engine, but it held up quite well. I think it needed a freshen up every couple years. Cheap and easy...

Regards,

Gregory Bender

[kevdog3019]

I used that on my pipes but not headers. Should do fine as Greg said. Looks good.
Kevin

[Dogwalker]

Yesterday, when we were talking about the machining operation, I *assumed* these were cast. Nope, they're stampings. :o Wow! It takes some serious machinery to stamp something as heavy as this.. I'd say a 1000 ton press.

They were made by Grimeca for Moto Guzzi. Actually they claim to have, among their equipement, a 800t press. Probably they had one of similar size, or even a little more powerful, in the late '70s - early '80s.
http://www.grimeca.it/

[Chuck in Indiana]

Cheap and easy...

 ;-T That's the ticket. Bead blast for prep? How about painting chrome mufflers? Will bead blast work? I'm in uncharted waters here..

[Gregory Bender]

;-T That's the ticket. Bead blast for prep? How about painting chrome mufflers? Will bead blast work? I'm in uncharted waters here..

I always painted over bare (or previously painted) metal - not over chrome. I'd just wash-rinse-dry-wipe down and paint. With a chromed surface, I'd want to get as much off as I could so there would be some bite.

Regards,

Gregory Bender

[Vasco DG]

Despite some similarities the two are very different engines. The 'Nuovo Hi-Cam' is, in most ways, streets ahead of the old design.

Pete

[Chuck in Indiana]

I figured you'd be using the double-crimp, strain relief variety of terminals like you get from Vintage Connections:

Looks like good stuff for automotive work.. Thanks!

[Chuck in Indiana]

I'm a pretty patient person, but I just walked away from this job.. ::(
I was finishing up going through the electrical system and the right turnsignal wasn't working. I though, no problem, I'd just put an ebay turnsignal assy on the back, and probably the bulb's dead. Opened it up, and there wasn't any bulb. Put one in. No cigar. Hmmm. Started back tracking, and was good up to the switch. Uh oh. Opened it up with fear and trepidation.  ;D
Here's the offending part of the switch.

There are several loose springs and pieces of beryllium copper. Those little legs have to fit in slots, and of course, the springs want to push it all apart.

The back just snaps on.  ::( or doesn't, which ever happens first. After an hour and a half, and many attempts, I left it..

How they ever assemble these in production is beyond me.. :P

[kevdog3019]

Must need skinny fingers Chuck.  Not hard for me with long skinny fingers.  Looks similar to the headlamp side, but I didn't do the turn signals.  Can't tell by pics how hard to line up.  They are junk-awful suckers! 
-Kevin

[Gregory Bender]

I love the look of the original "Tron" switches on my I-Convert (I know, "lego" is a more popular term, but I like the "Tron" moniker better). And, I actually resurrected the left handlebar switch and it is working quite well (or, as well as it ever worked). The right throttle/starter and kill switch was another story. Try as I might, I couldn't save it (the plastic screws securing the two halves just weren't going to hold the halves together - especially when I tightened the set screw). I eventually gave up and fit a start/kill switch from a Ducati or Yamaha or something. Plastics have come a long way in the last 30 years, and the early plastic switches leave a lot to be desired in terms of ease of use and repair-ability. Still, I love the look. What's a guy to do but spend 5 or 6 hours resurrecting old switch gear - only to be disappointed in the end result :> :> :>

Regards,

Gregory Bender

[Morizzi]

I´ve learned not to go in there unless I really have to. Stating that I´ve always won in the end but it can be tricky.

If you need to solder then that soft liquid solder  melts at a lower temp so the plastic is less likely to melt.

I now just clean the switches from the outside. Years of PO´s squirting them with WD40 and whatever has slowly built up mud in there not to mention the normal corrosion. I squirt wate based degreaser in there and work the switch, leave it for a while and repeat until it works. Periodic rinsing with a spray bottle of water and blowing it all out with a compressor.

Once it is clean and if it still is a bit dicky I´ll do the same with phoshoric acid but only leave it in there for a short while, rinsing well after. To date I haven´t failed with any of the switches by this method.

Due to the age and corosion I periodically ned to degrease them again. Every year or so. My Monza turn switch needs to be cleaned te most and you need to know exactly how to shift the switch but that is all part of its personality.

I like Greg´s description ´Tron´ much btter than Leggo but I think the Lario had the up/down switch rather than the left/right tha I have. I have been told they were more temperamental but that is quite subjective as those owners never had the earlier version to compare.

Still with 2 x L III´s, 1 x Monza and 1 x SP all the original Tron switchgear is there and working except for the SP´s RH side which was swapped by a PO.

Good luck.

Rod

[kevdog3019]

I wouldn't put anything in there unless water gets in.  I would think gunk of any kind is not good for these old things.  I have used that liquid gold stuff once but don't think it leaves too much behind.  I understand the stripping it out with acid bit.   
-Kevin

[Chuck in Indiana]

I´ve learned not to go in there unless I really have to.

I've learned that too. Now.  ~; ;D I *hope* I get it back together. I can just see one of those stinking tabs breaking off, and it'll be toast.

[mwrenn]

hmmm...On getting that switch together.  Could you drill a couple of .045" holes in the side of the switch body.  And a receiving hole on the other side.
Then use some .040 safety wire through the holes to hold the copper parts in place under the spring tension.   Put the top of the switch on and pull the wire out.  Kind of like doing the brushes on a Prestolite alternator.
Might work.   ;-T

[Mark West]

BTDT on my LMIV. Thought it would be a good idea to clean all the switch contacts. I did eventually get it together but can't for the life of me remember exactly how. I'm sure it took a while though.

This may be one of those things to walk away from and come back later after a breather.

[Dogwalker]

Mine had some problems due partly to the dirt and oxide built up over the years, partly to the fact that, the "rivets" were no longer in good contact with the brass "tracks".
But it needed only about an hour or two of work with deoxidizer spray and solder to fix them, and they work well since then.

[IceBlue]

Chuck
You had one cylinder replated with Milinuim Technology. How much did you pay for that - can't find it in the thread if you already gave that info.
I have a bloack 750cc grade B I'd like to have replated. I may let my daughter take it back to the US. Here the cost is around 5-600$

By the way, did the paint on the cylinder survive the process?

Cheers
Brian

[Chuck in Indiana]

Chuck
You had one cylinder replated with Milinuim Technology. How much did you pay for that - can't find it in the thread if you already gave that info.
I have a bloack 750cc grade B I'd like to have replated. I may let my daughter take it back to the US. Here the cost is around 5-600$

By the way, did the paint on the cylinder survive the process?

Cheers
Brian

Hi, Brian.. don't remember exactly, but it was in the high 200s. I had a little over $300 in it after buying a set of rings. Haven't I seen a German (I think) supplier offering complete cylinder sets for Larios?

By the way, did the paint on the cylinder survive the process?

Nope.

[IceBlue]

Thanks Chuck  ;-T - yes Gilardoni kits are available here for Lario's. My cylinder thoug is  750CC ntx barrel. those are close to 800$ here. A replating may be a good road to travel, if on doesn't pop up on eBay. I have a few grade B 8V 750cc pistons, so i like to hang on to my grade B 750cc cylinders.

Cheers