850T Project

[canuck750]

Thanks, Jim.  Not anywhere near the standard of your work, but I am building this bike as a nice rider, and it doesn't need to be perfect.  I'm really looking forward to getting this one done, so I can get started on the next one.  That was going to be my '74 civilian Eldo, but I recently picked up a 1968 Triumph TR250 (car), and I think I'll have a go at that first.  All great fun!

As always, I'm following your projects with great interest!

Shaun

An early Triumph, I am jealous!

[smdl]

Hi, folks.

More progress this weekend.  Still slow, but slow is better than none!

After getting the frame back together, I started messing with the controls.   I'm using Agostini rearsets on it, which are made for a rear disc brake bike, and I am going to need to remove a boss on one of the small triangular brackets on the footpeg mounts.  I need to keep the bracket for support of the drum brake linkage, but the boss for the T shifter (not needed anymore) gets in the way of the Agostini shifter, so I'll need to remove it.

Oh, well.  That's what you get when you adapt something meant for a different purpose.  I also need to track down some longer M12 bolts for the crash bar mounts, and find some M12x1.25 nuts for the foot peg mountings, so I'll stop in at the bolt place tomorrow.  Overall, looks like the controls are going to work very well with these changes along with a spacer that a friend is kind enough to be machining for me.  I need the spacer as I am using a shortened version of the stock Guzzi brake pedal arm rather that the Agostini piece (made for disc MC).



Still lots of work to do, but it is gratifying to see it beginning to look like a motorcycle again.  It's also really nice to start getting parts out of boxes, and onto the bike for (hopefully)the last time. 

Cheers,
Shaun

[canuck750]

Lookin good

[earlgrey-erfurt]

Hope you find an solution to use Agostinis on the 850T with drumbrake

i am very interested

cheers from Germany and my 850T

Helmut

[smdl]

Hope you find an solution to use Agostinis on the 850T with drumbrake

i am very interested

cheers from Germany and my 850T

Helmut

Hi, Helmut.

Yes, I was able to get the Agostinis working fine with the help of some past posts here on WG.  I'll take some pictures and post them tonight or tomorrow. 

What I am interested is your use of Lafranconi Competiziones with a drum rear brake.  How did you make the linkage work?  Or did you use a cable?  Let's have an exchange of information... 

Cheers,
Shaun

[smdl]

Okay, here is some information on how I have used the Agostini rearsets.

Here is the left side:



The only thing I had to do with this is trim the boss that supported 850-T shifter shaft to make clearance for the Agostini linkage.  I still need to smooth it out a bit, and then get it powder coated again, but it should work fine.

Here is the right side:



As the Agostinis are designed to be used with a rear disc brake, I couldn't use the brake pedal that came with their kit.  Instead, I had a spacer machined to replace it, and I will cut down the stock brake pedal to fit.  This is a trick that at least a couple of people have used to good effect (Geodoc and tpeever, as I recall).  The spacer is in currently in natural stainless, but I will have it powder coated black once everything is complete.

I'm not sure if you will get away with the brake pedal mod in Germany, as I know they are very strict there, but they might not even notice.   

Everything seems to be working just as expected, but I will post again once I get the brake pedal modified.

Cheers,
Shaun

[canuck750]

Nice work Shaun, I think I see a set of those in my future.

[smdl]

Hi, folks.

Okay, a bit more done today:



Tomorrow will be almost 10C, so I plan to spend a few more hours in the garage.  I think I will plan to put the swingarm, rear drive and shocks on.  If I have time, I'll start working on the front (after mounting the alternator).

Cheers,
Shaun

[smdl]

Nice work Shaun, I think I see a set of those in my future.

Thanks, Jim.  They're nicely made.  I initially mounted them without the passenger peg mounts as I don't plan to carry a passenger.  Then, I realized that those mounts also support the exhaust, so they will go back on tomorrow!  Two steps forward, one step back...

Cheers,
Shaun

[smdl]

Hi, Helmut.

Yes, I was able to get the Agostinis working fine with the help of some past posts here on WG.  I'll take some pictures and post them tonight or tomorrow. 

What I am interested is your use of Lafranconi Competiziones with a drum rear brake.  How did you make the linkage work?  Or did you use a cable?  Let's have an exchange of information... 

Cheers,
Shaun

Strange responding to my own message, but I zoomed in to Helmut's picture, and it looks like the rear brake shaft is still in place, and that the Lafranconi pipes clear it just fine.  If that's the case (please let me know, Helmut), then I will have a tough decision to make.  Do I go with my set of Lafranconis, or with the full Mistral set that I bought because I thought the Lafranconis wouldn't fit a drum brake bike?  The LF pipes fit this bike perfectly (they are specifically made for it), but the Mistral's are a work of art, and also have the option of DB-killer or not.

Any opinions?

Thanks,
Shaun

[Rick4003]

Thanks, Jim.  They're nicely made.  I initially mounted them without the passenger peg mounts as I don't plan to carry a passenger.  Then, I realized that those mounts also support the exhaust, so they will go back on tomorrow!  Two steps forward, one step back...

Cheers,
Shaun

Hi Shaun,

I also have the agostini footpeg kit, and while it is very well made it didn't fit with the lafranconis. The bracket for the passenger footpegs is in the way when you try to mount them. It might be possible to mount them on the inside of the brackets but I ended up making a new pair of exhaust brackets.

Looking forward to see if you can get them to fit without fouling the passenger footpeg brackets.

-Ulrik

[earlgrey-erfurt]

Hi Shaun.

sometimes its hard to explain special things in my bad school english... mea culpa

as i told you i will take some pics in the next days. hope they will explain better what i have done

cheers

[smdl]

Hi Shaun,

I also have the agostini footpeg kit, and while it is very well made it didn't fit with the lafranconis. The bracket for the passenger footpegs is in the way when you try to mount them. It might be possible to mount them on the inside of the brackets but I ended up making a new pair of exhaust brackets.

Looking forward to see if you can get them to fit without fouling the passenger footpeg brackets.

-Ulrik

Thanks, Ulrik.  Yeah, I can see how that might be a problem.  I'm going to try test-fitting the Mistrals before I do any more with the Lafranconis.  If neither fit well, I will have to make some mounts, as you describe.  If you happen to have some picture of the mounts you fabricated, I would really appreciate seeing them. 

Will keep you posted on my progress.

Cheers,
Shaun

[smdl]

Hi Shaun.

sometimes its hard to explain special things in my bad school english... mea culpa

as i told you i will take some pics in the next days. hope they will explain better what i have done

cheers

Hi, Helmut.

Actually, I think your written description was very good, and I can understand where you made changes to both the triangular bracket and the seam on the Lafranconis.  However, I think the pictures will still be very helpful.  Looking forward to them!

Cheers,
Shaun

[Rick4003]

Thanks, Ulrik.  Yeah, I can see how that might be a problem.  I'm going to try test-fitting the Mistrals before I do any more with the Lafranconis.  If neither fit well, I will have to make some mounts, as you describe.  If you happen to have some picture of the mounts you fabricated, I would really appreciate seeing them. 

Will keep you posted on my progress.

Cheers,
Shaun

Hi Shaun, I only have pictures from when it is mounted on the bike with the exhausts. But it shows the problem pretty well.

The bracket is very basic made from 5mm mild steel flat bar bend two places to get the offset correct.


I don't have any pictures of the bracket up close but I made a little cad drawing of it. Will post it when I manage to get it uploaded.





-Ulrik

[smdl]

Hi Shaun, I only have pictures from when it is mounted on the bike with the exhausts. But it shows the problem pretty well.

The bracket is very basic made from 5mm mild steel flat bar bend two places to get the offset correct.


I don't have any pictures of the bracket up close but I made a little cad drawing of it. Will post it when I manage to get it uploaded.





-Ulrik

Sorry I didn't see this post before, Ulrik.  Great information, thanks!

Cheers,
Shaun

[smdl]

Time for an update again, I suppose.  It really doesn't look like I have accomplished a lot, but I have worked through several issues, and things are therefore much more certain that before.

First of all, I have finally completed the Agostini rearset installation.  A machinist friend helped me by turning a longer set of threaded peg supports that were needed to fit these to an 850T with a drum rear brake.  The cross-shaft for the brake linkage is supported by two triangular plates, one on each side, that are added at the point where the lower frame rails bolt to the frame, and where the footpegs mount.  The extra thickness of these plates means that the threaded supports that come with the rearsets are not long enough to allow the nyloc nuts to fully engage, so longer ones are a must.  If used on a disc brake bike, those supplied work just fine.

I did try to test-fit the two exhaust systems to see how that would work, but it was clear that until the the foot controls (including rear exhaust hangers) were mounted, it wouldn't be possible to truly confirm how the exhaust fit.  There are just too many moving pieces to be able to accurately tell.  So, it became a matter of addressing one piece at a time, establishing a solid foundation, and then building up from there.  With the foot controls done, the next thing is to get the swingarm, rear suspension and rear drive installed, which will really let me see how the exhaust needs to be positioned.  Unfortunately, when I went to install the swingarm, I noticed that the powder coater had coated inside where the carrier bearing sits.  Naturally, with the thickness of the coating, there is no way the bearing will fit in there.  The guy who does my powder coating is usually excellent with this sort of thing, and he did avoid the swingarm bearings, but just forgot that this area mattered.  So, he now has the swingarm back in his shop, and is stripping and re-shooting it this week.

In the meantime, I have been working on the front end, having assembled the FAC dampers to the damper rods and attached the Wirth springs, I installed them in the tubes, and mounted the tubes into the lower triple clamp.  This allowed me to mock up the swan neck bars, headlight brackets, headlight and upper triple clamp.  In the process, I have been able to sort out how to mount the 850-T headlight, which I have decided to use in place of the traditional 750S headlight.  Why?  Because I had already worked with Gregory Bender on developing a wiring harness based upon the T, and that would have had to change a lot to accommodate a 750S headlight.  I actually really like the look of the T headlight, so I am good with how this is coming out.

Here is a shot that shows the large range of motion allowed by the swan neck bars:



Also installed is the Euro MotoElectrics alternator:



Here another shot that shows some of the mock up.



The above shot shows the Verlicchi swan necks installed, but I have since decided to go with the replicas of the original factory swan necks.   The only issue with those is that they come with  aluminum bar-end plugs in them, and I need to remove them in order to use bar-end mirrors.  Will try to get to that next weekend.

Handlebar controls have been test-fit, and it looks like they will work fine with the range of motion that the swan necks provide.  This is a relief as I had to estimate the appropriate length of the wiring a couple of years ago when Greg built the harnesses for me.

That's all for now.  Things should move a bit more quickly as final assembly proceeds. but some of the other Guzzis need attention, too.

I'm really excited with how this bike is coming out.  I think it looks great (sorry for the poor pictures), and can't wait to get it out on the road to see how it handles.

Cheers,
Shaun 

[canuck750]

Nice to see the tank fitted, the colour scheme is going to look fantastic!

Your breaking new ground with the Lafanconi cometizione pipes, they look fantastic!

[smdl]

Nice to see the tank fitted, the colour scheme is going to look fantastic!

Your breaking new ground with the Lafanconi cometizione pipes, they look fantastic!

Thanks, Jim.  I still need to sort out why the tank won't sit normally with the central rubber support in place (it is not installed in the pictures).  Also, I have decided not to go with the Lafranconis as I don't want to have to modify them to make them fit.  I already have a full stainless Mistral system with reverse megaphones, and think this looks almost as good, so I am going to go that direction.  It was a tough choice, though.

Once again, thanks for the tremendous help you have freely given at various points of this build, Jim.  I can't tell you how much I have appreciated it!

Cheers,
Shaun

[harrytief]

Shaun
SUPERB!!
Just the kick in the ass I needed to push my Eldo build. You do know that you would have more cash left over if you rediscovered dating again...maybe.
Harry

[smdl]

Shaun
SUPERB!!
Just the kick in the ass I needed to push my Eldo build. You do know that you would have more cash left over if you rediscovered dating again...maybe.
Harry

Haha, thanks, Harry.  Looking forward to seeing that Eldo project progress!

Yes, dating might be cheaper, but the follow-up conversation with my wife would almost certainly be more expensive... 

Cheers,
Shaun

[smdl]

Apparently. progress will be slower for a while...



Cheers,
Shaun

[twowings]

Your mom TOLD you what you happen if you didn't stop that!

[smdl]

Your mom TOLD you what you happen if you didn't stop that!

Yeah, but I didn't think she meant it literally.  Come to think of it, my vision seems to have been suffering, lately...

[swooshdave]

Apparently. progress will be slower for a while...



Cheers,
Shaun

Any updates on this project? Did the arm heal ok?

[smdl]

Thanks for asking, Dave.  The arm has healed up reasonably well, thanks, but it's still not perfect.  I'm currently trying to gauge whether or not bikes with low bars will be possible for me going forward, but I'm hopeful.  I was able to get out on a few 20-30 mile rides on the V11 Le Mans, late last year, and it wasn't too painful.  We'll see.

Unfortunately, my focus for the latter part of last season (after the arm healed) was on classic sports cars (Triumphs), as opposed to motorcycles, so progress on this project was limited.  This year, those distractions will be out of the way, so I am planning on getting back on track with this soon.  Will definitely post back here when I'm back in motion.

Cheers,
Shaun

[swooshdave]

Thanks for asking, Dave.  The arm has healed up reasonably well, thanks, but it's still not perfect.  I'm currently trying to gauge whether or not bikes with low bars will be possible for me going forward, but I'm hopeful.  I was able to get out on a few 20-30 mile rides on the V11 Le Mans, late last year, and it wasn't too painful.  We'll see.

Unfortunately, my focus for the latter part of last season (after the arm healed) was on classic sports cars (Triumphs), as opposed to motorcycles, so progress on this project was limited.  This year, those distractions will be out of the way, so I am planning on getting back on track with this soon.  Will definitely post back here when I'm back in motion.

Cheers,
Shaun

I saw that about the TR-250. My brother is busy working on the old TR-4 that drove for years. He found a few missing teath in the rear end. 

I won't tell on you if you post a couple pictures of the Triumph. 

[smdl]

I saw that about the TR-250. My brother is busy working on the old TR-4 that drove for years. He found a few missing teath in the rear end. 

I won't tell on you if you post a couple pictures of the Triumph. 

I hope the teeth weren't human...   

Actually, both Triumph sold today to the same guy.  He made me an offer I couldn't refuse.  Now I will be able to focus on the bikes a bit more.

Cheers,
Shaun

[BikeMike]

Hi Shaun,

Looking forward to following your 750S tribute to completion.   I just started tearing down my 850T to follow the same path.  Regarding the B10 camshaft installation did you have to physically adjust the cam to crankshaft relationship to advance the cam timing?  I just had my cam reground to B10 spec and wondered if this is required.

Thanks

Mike

[smdl]

Hi, Mike.

I didn't do anything special when I installed the cam -- just the normal procedure.  Someone might come along now and tell me that I should have...   

Looking forward to checking out your project!

Cheers,
Shaun