Checking V7 Stone oil level...

[Kev m]

Dozzat make any difference to the amount of oil?

Can't say for sure.

Same sump spacer fits on both motors.

BUT reports agree with my experience that the new Stones don't seem to be burning a drop of oil, or otherwise finding their own level when checked hot/upright/not threaded.

And Guzzi does claim some difference in this motor to reduce oil consumption.

So though I can't say why, the differences seem to be there.

[sib]

I'm a 2013 V7 Stone Newbie and I have a somewhat different oil level checking question.  The Stone doesn't come with a center stand, so, whenever I'm off the bike it is on the side stand, leaning, not vertical.  My question is, how am I expected to check the oil?  Am I supposed to reach down while mounted and holding the bike upright, unscrew the filler cap/dipstick, wipe it off, re-insert it (without screwing it in), pull it out again, read the level, put the cap back and screw it in, all while managing to keep the bike vertical and not drop it?  Or, can the oil level be read accurately while the bike is leaning on its side stand?

I know it's possible to get an aftermarket center stand for the 2013 Stone, but it apparently doesn't play well with the US version of the side stand, which has to be removed (according to Moto Guzzi).  If I can have only one stand, I'd prefer to keep the side stand.

Thanks for any suggestions.

Sam

[sign216]

Sam, the US centerstand works fine.  I have one.  Before that I had two techniques for checking the oil.

In the garage, prop the side stand up w a block, to get the bike close to vertical.

On the road, get an idea to what the right oil level looks like when the bike's leaned over.  That"ll go until you get back to your garage.

Joe

[youcanrunnaked]

1.  Is there a shop stand available for the V7?  Put it on one of those.

2.  Have a friend help you hold the bike vertical while you check the oil level.

3.  Unscrew the dipstick and wipe it.  Stand up and balance the bike vertical, hold on to the hand grip with your left hand to keep the bike upright, while bending down to re-insert and then pull out the dipstick and check it.  Then return the bike to the side stand,  Then put the dipstick back.

[Pfaff!]

1.  Is there a shop stand available for the V7?  Put it on one of those.

2.  Have a friend help you hold the bike vertical while you check the oil level.

3.  Unscrew the dipstick and wipe it.  Stand up and balance the bike vertical, hold on to the hand grip with your left hand to keep the bike upright, while bending down to re-insert and then pull out the dipstick and check it.  Then return the bike to the side stand,  Then put the dipstick back.

ä


- and using a file make a mark at that level. ;)

[profaen]

Even if you were supposed to screw it in, you could make a note of level when screwed in compared to just dipped then just dip from there.  :pop

Here's what my V& 2012 manual says:
Switch off the engine and wait at least five minutes to allow the lubricant to drain back into the sump.

Keep the vehicle upright with both wheels on the ground.

Unscrew and remove the cap with dipstick.

Clean dipstick.

Refit the cap with dipstick into its hole without tightening.

Remove the cap with dipstick.

Check oil level by means of the oil dipstick.

The oil level is correct when it close to the "MAX" mark.

I just had a dealer service and I checked the oil level when I got it home and it was an inch over MAX level. The dealer said he'd take some oil out "if it makes me happy". I don't think it has anything to do with happiness, it's just about what's the correct amount of oil. Next time I'll do it myself with a measuring cup/

[Kev m]

I'd be tempted to take some out if it was overfull.

I mean, why add the potential for excessive breather work or oil foaming if it is high enough that the throws are churning it?

The bigger issue is why a dealer tech would not have the professionalism to CHECK THEIR OWN WORK ON SOMETHING SO SIMPLE.

It would take what, a minute to use a hand oil pump to remove a half liter or whatever amount of extra oil is in there and return the bike to the customer as spec'd.

It MAY not make any real world difference, except the perception of lack of care on the part of the dealer tech. And that's a huge difference.

[sib]

If you add the amount specified in the manual, it will read overfull.  Mine has been that way since day one.  I just changed the oil at the first service and it reads overfull.  I am not taking any out.

Not true for my '13 Stone, or for my '16 Stone.  Measuring in exactly 2 L results in the oil coming exactly to the top mark.  I do suspect that some oil bottles are overly generous and when I once just dumped in 2 1-L bottles of oil I ended up being overfilled (but by much less than 1 inch).

[Kev m]

Oil capacity specs are funny things.

Some manufacturers give you the spec for a drain and refill.

Some manufacturers give you the spec for a complete refill of a dry motor which CAN be (depending on motor design) significantly different.

Some manufacturers take the oil filter capacity into the account/some don't.

Honda is one example that has done all three on different motors/at different times.

IF a manufacturer gives you the dry refill or a capacity that doesn't include the oil filter, you CAN under or overfill the motor to a not insignificant amount. Which is why on day one of mechanic's school people are taught to "add fluids gradually, checking the level often".

Now Guzzi complicates things even further with their sometimes confusing/conflicting oil dipstick procedures AND the fact that some of their motors seem happiest if they are NOT topped up all the way.

I dunno - it does seem like much ado about nothing, but I guess we all want to know that the level is "correct".

[sib]

Oil capacity specs are funny things.

Some manufacturers give you the spec for a drain and refill.

Some manufacturers give you the spec for a complete refill of a dry motor which CAN be (depending on motor design) significantly different.

Some manufacturers take the oil filter capacity into the account/some don't.

Honda is one example that has done all three on different motors/at different times.

IF a manufacturer gives you the dry refill or a capacity that doesn't include the oil filter, you CAN under or overfill the motor to a not insignificant amount. Which is why on day one of mechanic's school people are taught to "add fluids gradually, checking the level often".

Now Guzzi complicates things even further with their sometimes confusing/conflicting oil dipstick procedures AND the fact that some of their motors seem happiest if they are NOT topped up all the way.

I dunno - it does seem like much ado about nothing, but I guess we all want to know that the level is "correct".

I'm curious about whether you ran the engine before you checked the oil level after you put in the 2 L.  If not, the oil filter might not be full and, naturally, there would be too much in the sump.

[Kev m]

I'm curious about whether you ran the engine before you checked the oil level after you put in the 2 L.  If not, the oil filter might not be full and, naturally, there would be too much in the sump.

I put more like 3L in my sump, so I'm assuming you quoted the wrong guy. 

[slowmover]

I hope there isn't this much confusion in the nuclear power plant manuals.

[Kiwi_Roy]

What changes is the lowest point. i.e. the spacer makes the bottom of the sump sit lower, so more oil is under the bottom of the dipstick, but the "full" level remains at the same height.

Just curious,
                   Does the level of the pump suction change or does it just pull from the top of the deeper pool?

[Kev m]

Just curious,
                   Does the level of the pump suction change or does it just pull from the top of the deeper pool?

I don't remember, it was too long ago.

But thinking about it I would assume the pickup point was integral to the pan and dropped.

[sign216]

Just curious,
                   Does the level of the pump suction change or does it just pull from the top of the deeper pool?

The intake is close to the bottom of the pan, so with a sump spacer, the intake is still at the bottom.  Of a deeper pool.
Here's the pan.  The intake is below the yellow screen.

[Kev m]

The intake is close to the bottom of the pan, so with a sump spacer, the intake is still at the bottom.  Of a deeper pool.
Here's the pan.  The intake is below the yellow screen.

That's what I was envisioning. Thanks. 

[O]

I hope there isn't this much confusion in the nuclear power plant manuals.

Thankfully Italy mothballed the last of their nuclear power plants in 1990. 

Apparently the turbines weren't greased properly. 

[TheHungarian]

Good grief. Sorry for pulling this thread out of the grave, but:

My 2013 V7 Stone drips oil from the crankcase breather return hose when I put more than 1.5L of oil in. 1.5L...no drips and dry airbox. 1.6L...oil drip.

Further, the service manual shows this dipstick:




Lies!! The pic below shows my actual dipstick, and the bottom arrow shows my oil level with 1.6L. Is that line across the hash mark at the mid point the full mark? Or is it the halfway mark?  And why does checking the oil have to be like brain surgery? I know...it's the Italians. Those Italians.





Some on here are running the full 2.0L that the manual calls for with no issues. When I try 2.0L, it reads way past the hash marks (to the left in the pic).  1.6 seems like it would be the lower limit for safety. If anyone has a dipstick like the one pictured, can you please just tell me where is the full mark and where is the half-full mark? I will buy you an IPA if I ever meet you.

I think I'm going to pull the starter this weekend and clean or replace all the breather lines and the "Y" fitting with a stainless one I found on Amazin. Just to rule out that potential cause. This bike currently has 3,000 miles on the clock. As always, thanks for your thoughts and rants.

Best,
Mike

[Kev m]

TheH, funny this subject just came up last week at a small Guzzi gathering and I took the opportunity to check my air box and oil level that morning in the garage.

First, because I don't want to make any assumptions you ARE checking the oil with the bike held upright, and on a level surface right?!? And you're just sticking it in and not threading it all the way?!?

I still check mine:

* Overnight cold
* On the centerstand
* Stick inserted but not threaded.

I run it about halfway between that lower line and the top of the crosshatches.

It had been about 7500 miles since I'd checked the air box and there was only a small amount of oil in there. I could easily wipe it all up with a single blue paper shop rag.

I should add that I do have the extended sump and I think I tend to run more like only 2.5 qts in it these days.

When I was running closer to 3.0 I think it was using or carrying over some, but these days I rarely add a drop. Maybe once in a full oil change.

[malik]

I have the same dipstick. I treat the level shown not as gospel, but as indicators. If the level (oil hot, upright, on two wheels, stick sitting on lip) is at or below the line, it needs more. If the whole of the hatched part is oily, there's too much. If oil is in the air box, it's over full. On my 2014 Special, I put in 1.9L at the oil change. That gives me only a little oil vapour in the airbox. If the level goes past the line, I add in 200-300ml, or thereabouts. This particular bike doesn't seem to use much oil between changes. Some, but not much. Perhaps a little more lately than when it was newer.

[TheHungarian]

Kev:
Thanks for the tips. Yeah, oil is checked with the bike level and dipstick just dipped, not threaded in. BTW, I see you're in Medford. I'm in Brielle...just a straight shot down route 70 to the shore! I have yet to see another Guzzi on the road in my 3 months of ownership.  Good to know there are some "locals"!

Malik:
Thanks for confirming that the lower horizontal line is in fact the low oil level indicator. It makes sense in spite of the service manual showing a different configuration.

In light of that, I'm going to add another 100cc of oil just to be safe, for a total of 1.7L. Obviously, my oil leak is from a different issue, either a bad crimp on a crankcase vent hose clamp, or a clogged hose, or a broken "y" fitting or some such thing. I will explore this weekend.

Also will be installing the new Mosfet VR that Jack sent me. I wimped out and got the "quickie" kit. I just don't feel like pulling the fuel tank again. Thank you sirs!

Best,
Mike

[Kev m]

Kev:
Thanks for the tips. Yeah, oil is checked with the bike level and dipstick just dipped, not threaded in. BTW, I see you're in Medford. I'm in Brielle...just a straight shot down route 70 to the shore! I have yet to see another Guzzi on the road in my 3 months of ownership.  Good to know there are some "locals"!


Best,
Mike

Awesome... Actually there are more of us around here than you'd think. We have a small MGNOC group and forum. We meet for breakfast or lunch at times and have in the past taken trips together and to rallys.

Actually our fearless (I mean that) leader is in Manahawkin not that far south.

Hmm come to think of it in overdue to hit up the Scottish butcher in Brick.

Anyway, don't every hesitate to reach out if you need a hand.

And if you're interested in checking out local happenings drop by the forum: https://mgnocnj.forumotion.com/

Kev

[Dilliw]

Roper has this down to perfection:  Do it all right one time, put the bike on the sidestand, check it the way you are going to check it, and then mark the stick accordingly.
 

[ohiorider]

Pretty much...

But with a standard capacity smallblock, a little hair splitting might be helpful - the darn things only have a capacity of less than 2 liters stock.

I like having the sump spacer on mine for sure!

Kev, how much additional capacity does the spacer offer?

[Kev m]

Kev, how much additional capacity does the spacer offer?

Approx 1L

http://www.guzzipower.com/store/Sumspacer.html

Not sure if they are compatible with the III models (though I don't know why they wouldn't be as I thought the block was unchanged).

[SmithSwede]

The small block engine may hold “only” 2 liters, but remember, the gearbox is separate and holds a liter of gear oil.  A lot of bikes hold 3 liters of motor oil that must lubricate both the engine and the gearbox, so I’m not sure it is correct to think that the small block contains a barely adequate amount of oil. 

The problem with adding a sump spacer is the 50% extra oil volume causes the oil to come to operating temperature more slowly after a cold start, thus increasing total engine wear by at least 50%.   

Discuss.   

[SmithSwede]

I'm a 2013 V7 Stone Newbie and I have a somewhat different oil level checking question.  The Stone doesn't come with a center stand, so, whenever I'm off the bike it is on the side stand, leaning, not vertical.
Sam

Sam.  Get yourself a standard size American brick.  A used one will do.  When placed under the stock V7 side stand, the bike is dead level. 

[Kev m]

The problem with adding a sump spacer is the 50% extra oil volume causes the oil to come to operating temperature more slowly after a cold start, thus increasing total engine wear by at least 50%.   

Discuss.   

I think that's a fallacy. Engine wear was always touted to be greatest at STARTUP not WARM-UP. Oil pressure builds in seconds. Not to mention modern oils, especially synthetics provide much better protection than they used to.

No forget fallacy, I'm going with hogwash.

[kingoffleece]

I'm in agreement here.  It would take some serious evaluation to determine if any additional wear was created, not to mention 50% as a starting point.
And further, even with shared duty as most modern motorcycle engines now use with oil preforming all duties simultaneously, there is still overall the total increased volume present at all times.  I won't pretend to know if that is pertinent or not but it at least asks a question that would need to be addressed.
Maybe the best answer will come when we all have 100,000 miles on our V7's, some with sump, and some without.  I have 85,000 to go, but I do plan on getting there.

[TheHungarian]

Awesome... Actually there are more of us around here than you'd think. We have a small MGNOC group and forum. We meet for breakfast or lunch at times and have in the past taken trips together and to rallys.

Actually our fearless (I mean that) leader is in Manahawkin not that far south.

Hmm come to think of it in overdue to hit up the Scottish butcher in Brick.

Anyway, don't every hesitate to reach out if you need a hand.

And if you're interested in checking out local happenings drop by the forum: https://mgnocnj.forumotion.com/


Kev

Ha! Do you mean Cameron's on Brick Blvd.? I prefer to go on "Bag Pipe Night". Try the haggis, neeps and tatties and tip your waitress! Haha!
Actually, I've never been there, but let me know if you're heading that way!

Best,
Mike