Checking V7 Stone oil level...

[aebbern]

Sorry for such a basic question, but I need something cleared up.

My wife and I just brought home her new V7 Stone from the local Guzzi dealer.  We asked the salesman specifically about the correct technique to check engine oil level.  He stated, very assuredly, that you need to screw the dipstick all the way in to get an accurate reading (with the bike vertical).  Taking a look at the owners manual, I see it states "with the dipstick inserted, but not screwed in".

Having lived with several different Italian bikes (Laverda, Guzzi and Ducatis) in the past, I know from experience that their manuals sometimes get translated incorrectly.

Is the manual correct?  Do you simply insert the dipstick, but don't screw it in, to get an accurate level reading?

Thanks,
Andy

[guzzisteve]

Just dip it, not screwed in.

[rboe]

Even if you were supposed to screw it in, you could make a note of level when screwed in compared to just dipped then just dip from there.  :pop

[Muzz]

The Breva manual says screwed in, bike upright and oil hot.

[Kev m]

Just dip it.

[Loftness]

For the Stone, dip in without tightening after oil has warmed (after bike run, not at idle) and standing upright on both tires.

[Kev m]

To expound on my earlier abbreviated via-phone post -

The VAST majority of motors with threaded dipsticks I've come across in my lifetime were properly checked by just dipping the stick (not rethreading).

So I never questioned this when I read the owner's manual for my V7 Stone. It seems cut and dry and smallblock owners can stop reading this post now unless they're curious why the confusion on the part of some salesman or other Guzzisti.

That said, I DID question it when I read the owner's manuals for my previous big blocks - as the conventional wisdom around this board is that for California Tonti models that the dipstick should be threaded back into place when checking. Though I have often wondered if THAT wasn't in fact a mistake from a bad Italian translation.

The California models like my old Jackal stated:

LUBRICATION
Engine lubrication

Checking the oil level (fig. 23)

Check the crankcase oil level every 500 km; the oil
should reach the «Max» mark on the dipstick «A». If the
oil is below this level, top up with the recommended type
and grade of oil.

N.B. - The oil level check should be carried out
after the engine has run for a few minutes: the
dipstick plug «A» should be screwed up completely

Well, I guess they one part correct - they screwed it up alright.

Many Guzzi owners took that statement to mean - "oh they meant with the dipstick screwed INward and fully seated."

I however always LITERALLY read that as "screwed upward" or "with the dipstick UNSCREWED to the TOP of the threads" or basically JUST DIPPED. I'm in the minority reading it this way. But that's what I did for the nearly 10 years I had my Jackal and it never really showed symptoms of having too much (or too little) oil. Though to be honest I must also admit that I ran the oil level at the middle of the acceptable range on the dipstick because it seemed to "find" its own level.

Fast forward 6 years of production and my old 2006 Breva 1100 manual read:

CAUTION
The engine oil level must be checked with a warm engine and with the oil level dipstick (1) not tightened

It goes on to specifiy in a step-by-step procedure:

* Clean the dipstick (1) and refit, do not tighten.
* Take it out again and check oil level

Since both the Jackal and the Breva are related big-block motors (ok, yes, technically they do use different sumps and dipsticks, so maybe I'm stretching it) I saw this as affirmation that I was reading the Jackal (California Tonti) procedure correctly.

BUT EVEN IF I WAS MISTAKEN about the reading of the Cali Tontis (and they are checked in the bizzare fashion of rethreading the dipstick) I can still take this as affirmation that Guzzi chose to move forward and start checking oil levels normally like 99% of the rest of the world and that makes me feel comfortable with the instructions in the V7 Stone owner's manual:

ENGINE MUST BE WARM TO CHECK
OIL LEVEL. THE DIPSTICK MUST BE
INSERTED BUT NOT SCREWED IN..

Seems clear as a bell to me.

Hope it is to you.

[Guzzistajohn]

sounds like alot of hair splitting to me

[Kev m]

sounds like alot of hair splitting to me

Pretty much...

But with a standard capacity smallblock, a little hair splitting might be helpful - the darn things only have a capacity of less than 2 liters stock.

I like having the sump spacer on mine for sure!

[Guzzistajohn]

Gave up my V50 in 1989 pretty much ignorant

[youcanrunnaked]

I've always thought that for my EV, the dipstick gets screwed in to check the oil level.  You mean I'm doing it wrong?  ???

[Kev m]

I've always thought that for my EV, the dipstick gets screwed in to check the oil level.  You mean I'm doing it wrong?  ???

Like I said, that's how most Guzzisti seem to interpret it on Cali models.

[Flashman]

The early V7C owner's manual specifies to check the oil level with the dipstick screwed in, that could explain the confusion.  Though the new manual is clear; dipstick unscrewed. 

[Muzz]

On our Breva, for it's first oil change I got 1.8 lits, put it in, warmed it up and then checked the level. It was exactly on the full mark with the dipstick screwed in.

I shall therefore continue to check with the stick screwed in. :pop

[Kev m]

The early V7C owner's manual specifies to check the oil level with the dipstick screwed in, that could explain the confusion.  Though the new manual is clear; dipstick unscrewed. 

Screwed IN, or screwed UP? (just curious).

Muzz, guess that's something else they changed with the new motor...

Still odd that they were the exception to the norm, but I guess it shouldn't surprise me.

[youcanrunnaked]

I think I know why most Guzzisti believe that you check the oil with the dipstick screwed in.

Once upon a time, a not-too-long time ago, several Guzzisti were discussing how to check the oil in their crankcases: Should it be with the dipstick unscrewed and resting on the threads, or with the dipstick screwed in?  After many days of trying to parse the poor translations of their owners' manuals, discussions, and arguments, they were nowhere closer to an answer.  Finally, one of them said, "Ah, screw it!"  The others, equally disgusted that such a simple matter had stumped them, echoed this sentiment, and we all lived confusedly ever after....

[Kev m]

 :D  :BEER: :D

And like John said, it's probably much ado about nothing AT LEAST ON A BIG BLOCK (or even a small-block with sump spacer).

[iamz]

On our Breva, for it's first oil change I got 1.8 lits, put it in, warmed it up and then checked the level. It was exactly on the full mark with the dipstick screwed in.

I shall therefore continue to check with the stick screwed in. :pop

Same here.

[Guzzistajohn]

Now that's funny right there!

I think I know why most Guzzisti believe that you check the oil with the dipstick screwed in.

Once upon a time, a not-too-long time ago, several Guzzisti were discussing how to check the oil in their crankcases: Should it be with the dipstick unscrewed and resting on the threads, or with the dipstick screwed in?  After many days of trying to parse the poor translations of their owners' manuals, discussions, and arguments, they were nowhere closer to an answer.  Finally, one of them said, "Ah, screw it!"  The others, equally disgusted that such a simple matter had stumped them, echoed this sentiment, and we all lived confusedly ever after....

[CND]

FYI I just had the oil changed at 2800 miles on my 2013 V7 Stone. First oil change done at 600. Just prior to the change the engine oil level was at full.

I have not noticed any dips in oil level since purchase.

[drw916]

Screwed in, screwed out.  Measured hot, measured cold.  Who cares.  Drain the oil, add the correct amount.  Now measure it however you want. Note where it is on the dipstick.  For those of us with poor memories, make notes in your shop manual of what you did, and then do it the same way from then on.  My personal preference is cold, with the dipstick not screwed in.  I'm too old to change.

[Kev m]

Screwed in, screwed out.  Measured hot, measured cold.  Who cares.  Drain the oil, add the correct amount.  Now measure it however you want. Note where it is on the dipstick.  For those of us with poor memories, make notes in your shop manual of what you did, and then do it the same way from then on.  My personal preference is cold, with the dipstick not screwed in.  I'm too old to change.

And a good point.

The potential problem is with the tiny oil capacity of a smallblock, IF someone didn't fill it to the specified capacity, but instead just filled it say to the FULL LINE, but with the dipstick unscrewed (on a dual-throttle body motor), cold, on the centerstand - the difference might be significant from HOT, THREADED, UPRIGHT.

Now with the newer single-throttle body motors it might be less of a deal (since it seems they are supposed to be unscrewed, but IF you don't measure and add from scratch you still probably want to make sure it's hot and upright - no?

And yes, I too TEND to check cold as well, but again, I've added the sump spacer, so I've got about a full extra quart of leeway. I might not be so casual about it if I still had less than 2 quarts capacity.

[Flashman]

It is a bit of a moot point - as drw says, if you know what full looks like, you're good.  1.78l in the V7C corresponds to the full mark on the dipstick when screwed IN.  That's also a bit over halfway with the dipstick NOT screwed in.  So both are correct in the sense that the owner's manual specifies the level to be between the max and min marks either screwed in or out.  In this case the only potential danger is letting the oil level fall below min with the stick screwed in, which we never do anyway, right?.  And filled to the full mark with the stick screwed out will result in excessive oil being blown out the breather...full screwed in or halfway between the marks screwed out seems to be mia macchina's natural level.

[rbm]

I like having the sump spacer on mine for sure!

Kev, Does the dipstick show the correct level despite the spacer? I understand that the oil sump capacity is increased and thus more oil required, but does the level remain the same relative to the oil fill hole?

[Kev m]

Kev, Does the dipstick show the correct level despite the spacer? I understand that the oil sump capacity is increased and thus more oil required, but does the level remain the same relative to the oil fill hole?

Yes, and you explained why (the capacity is increased)...what changes isn't the highest point of where the oil sits. What changes is the lowest point. i.e. the spacer makes the bottom of the sump sit lower, so more oil is under the bottom of the dipstick, but the "full" level remains at the same height.

Or put another way, the top of the swimming pool doesn't change, it's just deeper so it holds more water.  ;-T

[jest2dogs]

When i first got my B750 (in Sep '08, it's a leftover '07) I was under the understanding to measure it warm, while upright with the dipstick not screwed in. On our first long trip I found I was losing oil. I'd top up as per above yet when I'd check it a few hundred miles later it would be low (about 1/2 way down the stick.

I later consulted Micha at MI and he said to check it warm with the dipstick screwed in. Measured such, the oil is always full and does not drop after 500 miles. I was overfilling before and the engine was seeking it's own happy level.

[Kev m]

When i first got my B750 (in Sep '08, it's a leftover '07) I was under the understanding to measure it warm, while upright with the dipstick not screwed in. On our first long trip I found I was losing oil. I'd top up as per above yet when I'd check it a few hundred miles later it would be low (about 1/2 way down the stick.

I later consulted Micha at MI and he said to check it warm with the dipstick screwed in. Measured such, the oil is always full and does not drop after 500 miles. I was overfilling before and the engine was seeking it's own happy level.

Based on that anecdote I believe I (and a few others here) can confirm that the NEW motor, like in the Stone, is checked: warm, upright, NOT screwed in.  ;-T

[Pfaff!]

sounds like alot of hair splitting to me

1 cm ( = 10 mm  ;) ) on that dipstick is equal to 0,2 liter.
Total amount to be poured in is 1,8 liter. Overfilling will cause spitting, underfilling won't make anyone happy.

They are sensitive creatures, the smallblocks.
But we love'em.  :-*

[Kev m]

1 cm ( = 10 mm  ;) ) on that dipstick is equal to 0,2 liter.
Total amount to be poured in is 1,8 liter. Overfilling will cause spitting, underfilling won't make anyone happy.

They are sensitive creatures, the smallblocks.
But we love'em.  :-*

Again, just to be clear (and it's probably my fault for introducing other model talk to this thread in the form of big blocks), but for newbies that read this in the future, you are talking about the now older design DUAL THROTTLE BODY MOTOR and not the new SINGLE THROTTLE BODY MOTOR like that which is found in the Stone.  ;-T

I know you and most posters get the difference, but I'm just worried about future newbs. 

[Pfaff!]

Again, just to be clear (and it's probably my fault for introducing other model talk to this thread in the form of big blocks), but for newbies that read this in the future, you are talking about the now older design DUAL THROTTLE BODY MOTOR and not the new SINGLE THROTTLE BODY MOTOR like that which is found in the Stone.  ;-T

I know you and most posters get the difference, but I'm just worried about future newbs. 

Dozzat make any difference to the amount of oil?