Author Topic: Freshly serviced breva dies on side of the road.. Your guess? (Read 33145 times)

Lannis · « **Reply #90 on:** March 21, 2014, 11:09:35 AM »

Quote from: Kev m on March 21, 2014, 09:08:25 AM

So there was more than one problem here - both fuel (now solved) and electric (still an issue).

And we know that that is extremely unlikely to have made the bike just stop .... so what sort of brainstorming can we do to figure the problem based on the premise (no "ass" in there!) that the two problems are directly related?

Lannis

Mayor_of_BBQ · « **Reply #91 on:** March 21, 2014, 04:11:58 PM »

Well I got home from work and tried again...

When you turn the key the pump does run for about 2secs then shuts off...

I opened the gas cap again, turned the key and I can see it is still spraying a little gas inside the tank... Nothing like before where it was a gushing stream but deff droplets spraying.

I guess this means it's possible that now, my hose that I installed has come off but damn that doesn't seem likely! I had that sucker clamped down tight and replaced it in the tank very carefully. I really REALLY do not want to take the tank off and pull the pump and check and re-install the pump and mount the tank again! (then wash and dry it because it's covered in gas)

I'm going to go to O'riley and get a bore scope or mirror or something and see if I can look in there and see where the gas spray is coming from

I'm really paranoid that the pump or some fitting is cracked from this now three times in - and - out routine

guzzisteve · « **Reply #92 on:** March 21, 2014, 07:03:46 PM »

If the pump shuts off it is holding pressure, your line did not come off.

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #93 on:** March 21, 2014, 07:48:02 PM »

Quote from: guzzisteve on March 21, 2014, 07:03:46 PM

If the pump shuts off it is holding pressure, your line did not come off.

Is that right?? I thought the pump just ran for a few seconds to pressurize the line, then didn't come back on until the ecu detected the engine was running..

Kev m · « **Reply #94 on:** March 21, 2014, 08:00:13 PM »

Fwiw, even if the hose isn't off, once the high pressure system is pressurized it regulates additional pressure by bleeding it off, back into the tank, so you should always see some motion in there with the pump running.

MotoGuzzi · « **Reply #95 on:** March 21, 2014, 08:05:36 PM »

Quote from: Mayor_of_BBQ on March 15, 2014, 06:23:31 PM

The hose to barb was a very loose connection. Further odd was that the hose 'upstream' from the filter was a plastic accordion tube... The hose on the intake side looks like air type rubber hose

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Just a crack at it....... If the underlined quote above is true, would that mean that your filter is in backwards?

rodekyll · « **Reply #96 on:** March 21, 2014, 08:07:19 PM »

Quote from: Chuck in Indiana on March 21, 2014, 07:48:02 PM

Is that right?? I thought the pump just ran for a few seconds to pressurize the line, then didn't come back on until the ecu detected the engine was running..

That's my understanding, but I have cali's. These fancy-pants bikes might be different. Also, the internal pump in mine (looks identical to yours) has its pressure relief upstream of the injectors and wants to avoid pressure pulses for even, repeatable injector action. So as near as I can do the math, it should be running constantly once the engine is ticking over, and you'll probably see the return side swirling in the tank a little.

If you could get a pressure gauge spliced into the line you could tell a lot. That initial couple of seconds should bring you up to 42-45psi (ish). If not on the first turn of the key, maybe on the second. It should not bleed off immediately when the pump shuts off. Once running it should hold pressure rock-steady -- no wiggle in the gauge.

Wayne Orwig · « **Reply #97 on:** March 21, 2014, 08:12:23 PM »

The ECU just runs the pump on a timer, or when the motor is spinning. Nothing detects pressure.

Kev m · « **Reply #98 on:** March 21, 2014, 08:28:57 PM »

Yeah, pressure regulation is strictly mechanical (spring force).

Mayor_of_BBQ · « **Reply #99 on:** March 21, 2014, 08:50:22 PM »

Quote from: MotoGuzzi on March 21, 2014, 08:05:36 PM

Just a crack at it....... If the underlined quote above is true, would that mean that your filter is in backwards?

Good eye! That should say DOWNSTREAM
IT'S FOR SURE ORIENTED CORRECTLT!

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MotoGuzzi · « **Reply #100 on:** March 21, 2014, 08:57:07 PM »

Quote from: Mayor_of_BBQ on March 21, 2014, 08:50:22 PM

Good eye! That should say DOWNSTREAM
IT'S FOR SURE ORIENTED CORRECTLT!

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Wait a sec, it looks like you have 3 possible hose connections that you could hook up to. You sure that tubing is connected correctly? Shouldn't your smooth tube be connected to the pump discharge?

Is that lower nipple connected to the inlet of the filter a vent, blow off and or possibly recirc for the fuel pump. which nipple is the pump discharged?

Shouldn't it look something like this:

Vasco DG · « **Reply #101 on:** March 21, 2014, 10:09:24 PM »

Can't see the second pic above but looking at the top one it appears that you have the hose connected to the presure relief valve outlet rather than the pump outlet do you not?

Pete

Mayor_of_BBQ · « **Reply #102 on:** March 22, 2014, 05:29:27 AM »

Quote from: Vasco DG on March 21, 2014, 10:09:24 PM

Can't see the second pic above but looking at the top one it appears that you have the hose connected to the presure relief valve outlet rather than the pump outlet do you not?

Pete

I don't know! Remember the first time I ever saw this thing, the hose had blown off! I put it on the most obvious barb!

There is no close picture or diagram in my service manual of this 'assy

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Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #103 on:** March 22, 2014, 05:33:13 AM »

Rosie's fuel pump assembly. Good catch, MG.. ;-T

Zoom Zoom · « **Reply #104 on:** March 22, 2014, 05:37:50 AM »

Boy, it has been a while since I did my Norge, but I am thinking like the others. The fitting on top of the fuel pump near where the electrical wires connect is probably where you need to connect the fuel filter. The one you have the hose on is probably left open. That would be where the pressure can bleed off back into the tank. (The pump itself does not regulate pressure. If it is running, it puts out X amount. It is always pumping that amount. What does not get used on the engine, bleeds back off into the tank.)

John Henry

edit: Per Chuck's pic. (Which was snuck in while I was not looking.) ;D Thanks Chuck, that is what I was referring to.

Mayor_of_BBQ · « **Reply #105 on:** March 22, 2014, 05:49:31 AM »

This WOULD Explain why the hose installed by the dealer was so short lol

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Mayor_of_BBQ · « **Reply #106 on:** March 22, 2014, 05:55:21 AM »

Well I have the bike all loaded up to go to riders hill this AM

Thanks for looking guys, I will go pull the tank back off and move the hose!

You just saved be about 6hr round trip... Plus a day of sitting in a rocking chair playing on my phone!

I could have this thing running by 10am if this is the answer!

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Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #107 on:** March 22, 2014, 06:01:46 AM »

:pop ;D

Lannis · « **Reply #108 on:** March 22, 2014, 08:04:03 AM »

50 minutes to go, get on wi' some work!

Wayne Orwig · « **Reply #109 on:** March 22, 2014, 08:44:12 AM »

I'm heading to Riders Hill. Wonder if he will be there. ~;

Mayor_of_BBQ · « **Reply #110 on:** March 22, 2014, 08:55:39 AM »

Boo-Ya

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Wayne Orwig · « **Reply #111 on:** March 22, 2014, 08:59:25 AM »

That is right. The regulator just blows off freely into the tank...

Zoom Zoom · « **Reply #112 on:** March 22, 2014, 09:16:37 AM »

That's more gooder! :BEER:

John Henry

Mayor_of_BBQ · « **Reply #113 on:** March 22, 2014, 09:17:14 AM »

Thanks so much guys! She lives and breathes!

Donation on the way! WG rules!

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Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #114 on:** March 22, 2014, 09:33:08 AM »

Quote from: Mayor_of_BBQ on March 22, 2014, 09:17:14 AM

Thanks so much guys! She lives and breathes!

Donation on the way! WG rules!

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Like I said the other day.. WG isn't a tech forum, but I've had answers here faster and more accurately than any tech forum I belong to. Even wildly off topic things, like "what year was my snub nosed revolver made?" was answered here faster than the Smith and Wesson forum. WG rules. ;D ;-T

Kev m · « **Reply #115 on:** March 22, 2014, 09:42:04 AM »

So there WASN'T an electrical problem... :D

Mayor_of_BBQ · « **Reply #116 on:** March 22, 2014, 09:52:24 AM »

Summary:
Tech at Riders Hill used wrong hose & insufficient clamping pressure when replacing fuel filter.. Hose blew off after 5mi test ride.

I pulled the fuel pump assy and replaced with correct hose + clamps.. But since I had never seen one assembled, I ran hose to pressure blow-off barb, not the correct pump output.

Pulled & corrected thanks to eagle-eyed WG member MotoGuzzi

Oh yeah I also pushed it .5mi up one of Asheville's signature hills... Loaded & unloaded it solo 4 times.. Drove 12hrs back and forth to RH... And generally stressed out and bombarded you with questions & pics

Grassy Ass boys! I'm going to ride :-)

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samfrank · « **Reply #117 on:** March 22, 2014, 10:04:36 AM »

Have been following this thread closely. Glad you're up and at em! Sure makes me want to rush over to Riders Hill for service!......NOT!

MotoGuzzi · « **Reply #118 on:** March 22, 2014, 10:22:39 AM »

Glad your back on the road........... :bike

Chuck in Indiana · « **Reply #119 on:** March 22, 2014, 11:06:46 AM »

Quote from: samfrank on March 22, 2014, 10:04:36 AM

Have been following this thread closely. Glad you're up and at em! Sure makes me want to rush over to Riders Hill for service!......NOT!

There used to be a guy that wrenched there that was pretty good, I hear.. ~;

News:

Author Topic: Freshly serviced breva dies on side of the road.. Your guess? (Read 33145 times)

Vasco DG