2015 Moto Guzzi V7 II merged threadfest

[pauldaytona]

All manuals and parts lists are there. So you find an oil pump and filter in the gearbox.

gearratio
old

new


parts
V7-II-RACER-ABS-750-2015
V7-II-SPECIAL-ABS-750
V7-II-STONE-ABS-750-2015

owner manual german Dutch http://www.mgcn.nl/downloads/gebruikersboekV7-Racer-II-V7SpecialII-V7StoneII-DE-NL.pdf

and workshop
http://www.mgcn.nl/downloads/V7_ABS_workshop_manual_EN.pdf

wiring
http://www.mgcn.nl/downloads/V7_ABS_wiring.pdf

[pyoungbl]

Hi Paul,
     If I understand your graphs correctly the V7 (5 speed) is doing 96kph @ 4000 rpm, the V7 II (6 speed) is doing 100 kph @ 4000 rpm.  In other words, almost the same final gearing in the top gear for each.  That's what I was expecting, in spite of all the talk about 6th being an even taller gear that the current box.  I believe the oil pump and filter will turn out to be the most significant change in the real world. 

Thanks,
Peter Y.

[rocker59]

Thanks Paul   ;-T

[sib]

Many, many thanks, gracias, grazie, merci, obrigado, danke, and dank!

Now we know that the overall top gear ratio is nearly identical to that of the 5-speed box, 1st and 2nd are slightly lower, 5th is in between old 4th and 5th, and the others are similar.

The calculated top speed at red line (7200 rpm) and with stock tires is 115 mph with the 6-speed box vs 113 with the 5-speed, bearing in mind that probably neither engine will get you there except perhaps going downhill with a tailwind.

Thanks again.

[Xlratr]

Hi Paul,
     If I understand your graphs correctly the V7 (5 speed) is doing 96kph @ 4000 rpm, the V7 II (6 speed) is doing 100 kph @ 4000 rpm.  In other words, almost the same final gearing in the top gear for each.  That's what I was expecting, in spite of all the talk about 6th being an even taller gear that the current box.  I believe the oil pump and filter will turn out to be the most significant change in the real world. 

Thanks,
Peter Y.

Maybe not. 1,2.3 and,5 are all geared lower than in the old box, which will put more torque at the rear wheel almost everywhere. And you've got 6th for cruising. It might make for a quite different riding experience.

Not that I'd know! I've never ridden a V7! Yet! :-)


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[rocker59]

Hi Paul,
     If I understand your graphs correctly the V7 (5 speed) is doing 96kph @ 4000 rpm, the V7 II (6 speed) is doing 100 kph @ 4000 rpm.  In other words, almost the same final gearing in the top gear for each.  That's what I was expecting, in spite of all the talk about 6th being an even taller gear that the current box.  I believe the oil pump and filter will turn out to be the most significant change in the real world. 

Thanks,
Peter Y.

I think the lower 1st will be welcomed.

And the 4.5% taller 6th will be welcomed by many.

[pauldaytona]

The steps in between are smaller, so more easy to get up speed.  But you aren't allowed to go that fast at all. And with the little horses you need all help you can.

[sib]

Here are another couple of interesting factoids:

the new 6-sp gearbox with oil pump takes only 500 cc of oil, vs 1000 cc for the old 5-speed.  And the new gearbox calls for 75W-90 weight, compared to 85W-90 for the 5-speed box.

The wet alternator is rated at 270 W, whereas the dry one was rated at 350 W.

[pauldaytona]

There we have it, a Guzzi first: a dry sump gearbox

[Kev m]

Actually, my dealer told me that all of the black '13 Stones came in with Lasertec tires and Olle shocks, whereas the all white ones had Pirellis and Sachs.  Go figure.  Another curious detail:  my Stone came in with the 90-degree tire valve stems pointing to the left, whereas the stems on all the other tubeless tired bikes the dealer and I have seen are pointed to the right, which makes for easier access when the bike is leaning left on the side stand.  I plan to get mine pointed the other way when I get new tires.  I guess creativity reigns on the assembly line at MG.

What's the difference between the Olle and Sachs with regards to setting preload? How do you do it on yours? (Honestly don't know off the top of my head what came on mine. Though I remember I had Pirellis.

[Kev m]

Paul, thanks for that work.

But are we sure the numbers are accurate?

Those numbers say 100 kph (60mph) = 4000 rpm in fifth on the current 5-speed?

Maybe winter is setting in but that's sounding high to me. I'll go search...

[Kev m]

OK searching old threads suggests that we THOUGHT ~3.8K = 60 MPH.

That could mean speedo error, or some factor missed by the calculations.

I was hoping the new setup would drop rpm by a couple hundred in top gear, but it doesn't sound like that will happen.

It IS a hair taller, but not what I was hoping for...

[Penderic]

The new transmission uses half the oil, has a oil pump and fits the old cases?

I like to see if it has any bugs the first year and how the shift linkage and shift feel after that.

Moto G. Never Perfect. Always Awesome!  ;D

[rocker59]

But 6th isn't taller than old 5th, in fact it's 1% lower.

Either we're looking at different charts, or we're using different terms for "Taller" and "Lower".

From the chart:  5-speed VMax is 192kph.  For the 6-speed, VMax is 200kph.  So, the 6-speed bike is geared "taller" than the 5-speed.  

192 x 1.045 = 200.64  which I read as 4.5% taller.

(yes, I understand that the V7 II doesn't have enough power to pull VMax, but we're talking about gearing)

 

[Vasco DG]

The new transmission uses half the oil, has a oil pump and fits the old cases?

I like to see if it has any bugs the first year and how the shift linkage and shift feel after that.

The new gearbox is exactly that, new. In a lot of waysit seems very similar in appearance to the 'Nuovo Six Speed' used in the CARC bikes but it is obviously significantly different internally. No way will the new internals fit into the old cases and I'd be very surprised if you could retrofit a six speed box into a five speed bike.

As for bugs? Why should there be any if there has been one 100% success with the post Piaggio bikes it's been the Nuovo Six Speed which is not only a great box to use but has been bulletproof.

Pete

[fossil]

Well, these nice diagrams confirm: the first gear is shorter, top gear is longer. This is a good thing. But: do I miss power on my 5-gear version? No, not in the least. Even in fifth the little Guzzi accelerates quite happily, especially since she is run in.

In this context: when I had the Monster 1200 as teporary replacement for the Guzzi (inspection) and then got my bike back I of course suspected I have lost a cylinder or so. But that feeling got away fast (nonetheless, the Ducati was FUN to ride!). When I needed another substitute (my shaft drive leaked oil) I got the Vstrom 1000. This thing has 100 hp. And it did not feel stronger bi a great margin than the Guzzi. Of course it was, but the feeling simply wasn´t  there.

By the way: driving the Suzuki confirmed my opinion that at least for me a bike must not be "perfect", it must not fit in any rolls, and of course it must not be a castle made of plastic. This bike simply generated no joy in me. And I do not want to say it is not a good product. It simply did not fit.

When we speak of plastic: now I can get rid of the plastic fenders. I think the polished aluminium fenders are especially made for me, as is the new, narrower 3/4 seat.

My bike came with the Pirellis and Ollé - shocks. The tire valves are oriented to the left.

[fossil]

Regarding the technical manuals: There are in fact a lot of pictures that show the older version (dual throttle bodies) ant not the stb - versions. But if the workflow is the same - who cares?

[pauldaytona]

Paul, thanks for that work.

But are we sure the numbers are accurate?

 Well all gears are there, so whats holding you from doing your own math?

[Kev m]

Well all gears are there, so whats holding you from doing your own math?

The fact that we can't be 100% sure of the NUMBERS (that includes the gears, since there have been some contradictory data provided on them).

And I guess I was questioning how well the calculation takes into account factors like actual tire size.

Though you'll see I did suggest that it was likely more accurate than the speedos and the faulty humans reading them.

No matter, it's only a relative RCH.

[Cam3512]

What's the difference between the Olle and Sachs with regards to setting preload? How do you do it on yours? (Honestly don't know off the top of my head what came on mine. Though I remember I had Pirellis.

One has two adjusting rings, one to adjust and the outside as a lock.  The other has one ring with a small set screw hidden from view to loosen and lock the adjust ring.

My '14 Special has the former, Perilli tires, and straight valve stems.

[sib]

One has two adjusting rings, one to adjust and the outside as a lock.  The other has one ring with a small set screw hidden from view to loosen and lock the adjust ring.

My '14 Special has the former, Perilli tires, and straight valve stems.

That's exactly the difference in the shocks.  I've never heard anything about which is better.  I believe that the 90-degree stems are only suitable for the tubeless tire cast rims on the Stone, not the tubed tired, spoke rims on Special.

[Kev m]

Thanks, yeah I seem to remember having the set screw type but the manual detailed the double ring nut type. <shrugs>

[sib]

Let's do the math and find out how many times the rear axle rotates for every engine rotation:

5-speed gearbox, input gears 16/21, 5th speed gears 25/22, rear end 8/33, overall ratio (16/21)x(25/22)x(8/33) = 0.20989.

6-speed gearbox, input gears 18/23, 6th speed gears 27/24, rear end 8/33, overall ratio (18/23)x(27/24)x(8/33) = 0.21344.

the new 6th gear is 100x((0.21344-0.20989))/0.20989 = 1.69% higher than the old 5th gear, assuming that the gear tooth numbers printed in the owner's manuals are correct.

[rocker59]

Let's do the math and find out how many times the rear axle rotates for every engine rotation:

5-speed gearbox, input gears 16/21, 5th speed gears 25/22, rear end 8/33, overall ratio (16/21)x(25/22)x(8/33) = 0.20989.

6-speed gearbox, input gears 18/23, 6th speed gears 27/24, rear end 8/33, overall ratio (18/23)x(27/24)x(8/33) = 0.21344.

the new 6th gear is 100x((0.21344-0.20989))/0.20989 = 1.69% higher than the old 5th gear, assuming that the gear tooth numbers printed in the owner's manuals are correct.

5-speed:  1.31 x .88 x 4.125 = 4.76:1 overall gear ratio in 5th gear.
6-speed:  1.277 x .89 x 4.125 = 4.63:1 overall gear ratio in 6th gear.

4.76 into 4.63 = .97268

But whatever...  We're splitting hairs here.  Overall gearing in top is slightly taller with the six-speed, but in the real world it will likely mean little.  I was expecting more.

The spacing does look good, and the lower 1st gear will be helpful.

[rbond]

It is also where your torque comes in at as well . I have a '76 Suzuki GT500 with about the same horse power as a V7. But it will pull like a tractor from a stop very easily without having to rev much to get moving, smoothly, up to speed, also without lugging, bucking, just electric motor smoothness. It will get a little buzzy going faster, it is a 2 stroke after all. Yes I have a 2 STROKE twin!!! (approx. 21,000 miles on it) Gets 44 mpg in town, almost as much as my V7 - 49mpg. The gear ratio of 4th and 5th are sooooo close it is stupid. RPM barely drops from a shift up. Don't know what Suzuki was thinking when they did this gear box.

[sib]

Either we're looking at different charts, or we're using different terms for "Taller" and "Lower".

From the chart:  5-speed VMax is 192kph.  For the 6-speed, VMax is 200kph.  So, the 6-speed bike is geared "taller" than the 5-speed.  

192 x 1.045 = 200.64  which I read as 4.5% taller.

(yes, I understand that the V7 II doesn't have enough power to pull VMax, but we're talking about gearing)

 

Yes, my boo-boo.  I've deleted that post and corrected another one.  The newer 6th gear overall is slightly (1.69%) taller (factoring in the different input shaft gear ratio) than the old 5th gear, and the calculated speed at the nominal 7200 rpm redline with the stock tire size is a couple mph higher, 115 vs 113.  Sorry for my earlier math-challenged post.

[rocker59]

  Sorry for my earlier math-challenged post.

No worries.  Math is always a challenge for me!!!

[bad Chad]

You guys might want to get out and spend some time around women. :D

[Kev m]

You guys might want to get out and spend some time around women. :D

Jebus, the LAST thing I need is another kid....:-\

[sturgeon]

Trust me, the only skill that improves is subtraction.