2013 Stelvio NTX fork seal just started weeping

[andrewdonald1]

Gents:  well 5400 miles on the 13 Stelvio NTX and the right fork seal just started weeping.
I went ahead and ordered the Seal Doctor to see if that will smartly clean out debris before ordering the seals etc to fix it the long way around.
Should have it in a couple days, and will try it this weekend.
Will update if that does the trick.

I thought it was interesting that they require the seals to be replaced at every 6250 miles (reviewing that last week).
Thought that was a bit excessive, but after today's little observation... hmmm.. interesting... that's all I got to say at the moment.

Maybe I need to put those little boots over the forks to resist dirt/debris...

Thoughts / comments? 

[Daniel Kalal]

I believe it's every 20,000 kilometers starting after the first one is replaced at 10,000 kilometers.  Yes; it does seem excessive, but mine blew at around the 10,000 km mark, too.  I'm keeping a seal cleaner device with the bike to hopefully catch any debris in time.

[ChuckH]

This is good to know.  My '12 NTX has 24K miles on it now.  The left side normally has a very thin film of oil in the travel area when I come home from a trip but nothing that I consider serious.  A rebuild and fresh oil may be a good thing to occupy my time during this coming winter.

[Waltr]

Manufacturer's often recommend maintenance on items rather replace under warranty.  My bike weeped a little  fork oil on both seals until this last trip and now they seem dry. And yes there is fluid in there. 

[bratman2]

My 09 Norge blew it's right front seal around 5300 miles also. I replaced it with "All Balls" seals myself. Not worth the 3.5 hr. drive to the nearest dealer. Weird is all I can say!

[Vagrant]

wash the tubes after every ride!

[andrewdonald1]

Well I should get the little part Friday if I am lucky. 
I'll try it out and report back.

You know after all these years I've never replaced the fork seals on inverted forks... always normal RWU forks. 

Is it a PITA compared to normal forks?

I felt under the axle cap/housing at the bottom of the fork and I am suspecting there is a bolt or something that holds the black axle housing on the lower part of the fork tube.

Is that the deal? 

pull the front wheel, unbolt the lower housing on the forks, then pull the fork and do the normal deal except now your sliding the seal off/on from the lower end of the fork??

I know, I know I should just read the shop manual.. I am at work and just curious...

[andrewdonald1]

wash the tubes after every ride!

On one hand I like the idea of the fork socks to protect from debris, on the other hand it seems like it creates ignorance to if your seals are leaking since you can't see anything.

On my foot (I only have two hands!), I guess probably the only thing to do is just wipe them down like you said..

[Kiwi_Roy]

I replaced both seals on my 98 EV because they started to weep.

I used the prescribed part from MG Cycle, now they leak worse than ever ???

[bigbikerrick]

A friend of mine gave me a seal doctor as a gift a couple of years ago. I had my doubts as to it actually working, but then the upside down WP fork on my sons KTM started weeping a bit, I used the device as prescribed, and it took a couple of tries, and alot of pumping up and down on the forks, but it did clean some grit out from under the seal lip, and stopped the leak. I have since ( in cheap Guzzisti fashion) made a few of the seal cleaners from a piece of old X ray film. It works like a charm, just like the original seal doctor( made by Motion pro, I think) . I have since taken care of seal leaks on my wife's Magna, and again a second time on the KTM, other side this time.
 The seal doctor is nothing more than a piece of flat flexible plastic, with a little hook shape on the end, to slip between the seal lip, and the fork tube, to sweep out grit, and dirt. you can also make them out of the clear plastic "bubble" packaging used commonly for all kinds of things, as long as you have a flat piece big enough to cut out a "seal doctor" with a pair of scissors.

Damn good invention if you ask me!

Rick.

[andrewdonald1]

Final got mine Monday just passed.  Unfortunately I am busy all weekend so I'll have to see how this works the following week after this one.

[Phil_P]

Well I should get the little part Friday if I am lucky. 
I'll try it out and report back.

You know after all these years I've never replaced the fork seals on inverted forks... always normal RWU forks. 

Is it a PITA compared to normal forks?

I felt under the axle cap/housing at the bottom of the fork and I am suspecting there is a bolt or something that holds the black axle housing on the lower part of the fork tube.

Is that the deal? 

pull the front wheel, unbolt the lower housing on the forks, then pull the fork and do the normal deal except now your sliding the seal off/on from the lower end of the fork??

I know, I know I should just read the shop manual.. I am at work and just curious...

I would rate doing the USD forks as a PITA,

On the WP units on the Sporti, you remove the top cap and kind of use the fork tube as it's own slide hammer to knock the seal out once the retaining circlip is removed. On mine though, the internal plastic clip retaining the bushing popped off instead, leaving the bushing in the fork upper leg and the seal in place, requiring levering out with care.

To re-assemble, you really need some sort of split drift to assemble round the fork lower to press the new seal in place. I machined one up out of some aluminium tube. If you don't, it is nigh on impossible to get the seal in place without damaging the lip. You can buy the proper tool in places like ebay, but you need the right diameter for your fork leg.

Don't forget to slip the circlip onto the leg before the seal (plus any spacers etc) or you will have the devil's own job getting it round the leg without gouging it.

Make sure when you slip the new seal onto the fork lower prior to re-assembly, you tape any sharp edges on the leg, or they WILL trash the new seal.

Phil

[andrewdonald1]

I would rate doing the USD forks as a PITA,

On the WP units on the Sporti, you remove the top cap and kind of use the fork tube as it's own slide hammer to knock the seal out once the retaining circlip is removed. On mine though, the internal plastic clip retaining the bushing popped off instead, leaving the bushing in the fork upper leg and the seal in place, requiring levering out with care.

To re-assemble, you really need some sort of split drift to assemble round the fork lower to press the new seal in place. I machined one up out of some aluminium tube. If you don't, it is nigh on impossible to get the seal in place without damaging the lip. You can buy the proper tool in places like ebay, but you need the right diameter for your fork leg.

Don't forget to slip the circlip onto the leg before the seal (plus any spacers etc) or you will have the devil's own job getting it round the leg without gouging it.

Make sure when you slip the new seal onto the fork lower prior to re-assembly, you tape any sharp edges on the leg, or they WILL trash the new seal.

Phil

Phil:  I am still a little unclear on how to get the seals on and off the lower fork tube on the inverted forks.. I assume you remove the lower assembly that holds the wheel axle wouldn't you?
Then slide the seals on?  The only other option I see would be to completely disassemble the inner/outer fork tubes.. that doesn't seem very efficient..

[toma nova]

I've got a 45mm seal driver and 45mm seal bullet you can borrow when you're ready to do seals.  I was hesitant before tearing apart the forks on my 1200 Sport but new springs for my weight and heavier (and fresh) fork oil made a huge improvement - well worth the effort to replace a leaking seal and upgrade the internals.

Tom

[Phil_P]

Phil:  I am still a little unclear on how to get the seals on and off the lower fork tube on the inverted forks.. I assume you remove the lower assembly that holds the wheel axle wouldn't you?
Then slide the seals on?  The only other option I see would be to completely disassemble the inner/outer fork tubes.. that doesn't seem very efficient..

Afraid it's a winner to 'inefficient'. The casting on the bottom of the legs, although I understand it is removeable with difficulty, is NOT the way you service these forks. The inner (lower tube) is completely removed from the upper outer tube after the top nut and various clips are removed (thus allowing removal of the spring) and the seal retaining circlip. The lower tube is completely withdrawn from the upper tube, and seals are then replaced.

This I hasten to add is how the WP USD forks are done, I can't specify to others as I have no experience.

Some of this video information (particularly the seal removal phase) is relevant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2kwV98lZ4Y

Phil

[andrewdonald1]

Afraid it's a winner to 'inefficient'. The casting on the bottom of the legs, although I understand it is removeable with difficulty, is NOT the way you service these forks. The inner (lower tube) is completely removed from the upper outer tube after the top nut and various clips are removed (thus allowing removal of the spring) and the seal retaining circlip. The lower tube is completely withdrawn from the upper tube, and seals are then replaced.

This I hasten to add is how the WP USD forks are done, I can't specify to others as I have no experience.

Some of this video information (particularly the seal removal phase) is relevant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2kwV98lZ4Y

Phil

That's what I feared... the inefficient route.. dang it..  I hate taking whole forks apart.  Pain in the arse.. Glad I am going to try the seal doctor first.. hopefully its just the prescription I need.

[andrewdonald1]

I've got a 45mm seal driver and 45mm seal bullet you can borrow when you're ready to do seals.  I was hesitant before tearing apart the forks on my 1200 Sport but new springs for my weight and heavier (and fresh) fork oil made a huge improvement - well worth the effort to replace a leaking seal and upgrade the internals.

Tom

Cool Tom.. I really appreciate that.. people taking care of people.. I'll let you know if I get there.. Hopefully the seal doctor will take care of it..
thanks again for the offer.. classy act my friend.  Andrew.

[andrewdonald1]

Update Gents:

Ok I had time yesterday to try the Seal Doctor on the right fork seal.

Amazing amount of crap came out... not as much (probably about 20%) came out of the dust seal.

Took me three rotations (do 1 rotation and pull out, clean and re-insert) to clean out the fork seal.
Couple on the dust seal.


Bounced the forks up and down a dozen times or so to reseat the seal.. took her for a drive and we are back to normal.

Amazing.  Put about 30 miles on it (with a few wheelies) and all fixed.

Wonderful little tool..  I wonder how much we piss away every year changing out fork seals rather than just cleaning them out...

I'll update as I get some more miles on it (slowly now that winter rain is upon us in Seattle).

[Silver Goose]

Andrew, I have used the Seal Doctor to prolong the life of my fork seals to almost 17000 miles. I am changing the seals and front brake pads this week.
Service on the inverted forks is no big deal. Take your time, do one at a time you will be fine. Tip use a plastic sandwich bag and plenty of grease in order to slid the new seals over the inner tubes of the forks.

Good luck

[andrewdonald1]

Andrew, I have used the Seal Doctor to prolong the life of my fork seals to almost 17000 miles. I am changing the seals and front brake pads this week.
Service on the inverted forks is no big deal. Take your time, do one at a time you will be fine. Tip use a plastic sandwich bag and plenty of grease in order to slid the new seals over the inner tubes of the forks.

Good luck

thanks Bro!  Yes I find it to be a valuable little tool that I can't believe I've never used or been exposed to before. 
On the complexity of inverted forks.. cool.. I think what I'll do is order the parts and have them ready for when I need them.


I like the idea of doing preventative maintenance over the winter, but now-a-days I don't want to waste my time, money and our precious resources in the world to just change them out for no reason.. hence the tool... I like it.  Getting a little smarter over the years..

Frankly it was a great pleasure to have it solve the problem in maybe 10 minutes.. no fuss.. a little wipe up of the fork tube and go ride..I like it.
I love my Guzzi.. 6 years was too long to not have a Goose in the garage again.

[Silver Goose]

Andrew, If I may suggest, look into fork seals from"All Balls". Triple lip design with dust seals. I just bought a set and a back up set for $21.00 from Ebay. Of course the size will be different for you bike. I bought from a seller named "bosspowersportsoutl et" good price and free/fast shipping.

Good Luck

[andrewdonald1]

Andrew, If I may suggest, look into fork seals from"All Balls". Triple lip design with dust seals. I just bought a set and a back up set for $21.00 from Ebay. Of course the size will be different for you bike. I bought from a seller named "bosspowersportsoutl et" good price and free/fast shipping.

Good Luck

Yep those are the ones I am going to buy!  I've used them before on my previous KLR and other bikes.  They've never let me down.

Thanks again kind sir - people taking care of people..that's what will make the world a better place.

[andrewdonald1]

Did about 120 miles yesterday and a few little wheelie's.

Fork seal holding.. I think the Seal Doctor worked!!!

[Silver Goose]

Good Luck, Andrew. The seal doctor helped me add 10,000+ miles before rebuilding.

[Vasco DG]

There was a service bulletin put out a while back about leaky for seals. It appears that there were a lot of complaints about seals leaking, especially on the Stelvio, and it turns out that in many cases it was simply grease used on assembly getting expelled from the dust seal. In cases like this it might be worth just lifting the dust seal and wiping out any gunk that's in there

Perhaps it could be saved and sent back to the factory so they could put it on something useful like Swingarm bearings.  :D

Pete

[andrewdonald1]

There was a service bulletin put out a while back about leaky for seals. It appears that there were a lot of complaints about seals leaking, especially on the Stelvio, and it turns out that in many cases it was simply grease used on assembly getting expelled from the dust seal. In cases like this it might be worth just lifting the dust seal and wiping out any gunk that's in there

Perhaps it could be saved and sent back to the factory so they could put it on something useful like Swingarm bearings.  :D

Pete

Most of mine was not in the dust seal.
Could have been grease.. the greasy paste was more of a sandy color that I extracted.  
I assumed that was a combination of fork oil and dust.. but maybe you're right?
But clearly I also had fork oil leaking by the seals as a result of the paste wedged in there.

Anyways.. she seems to be solved at the moment.  

[MotoG5]

Most of mine was not in the dust seal.
Could have been grease.. the greasy paste was more of a sandy color that I extracted.  
I assumed that was a combination of fork oil and dust.. but maybe you're right?
But clearly I also had fork oil leaking by the seals as a result of the paste wedged in there.

Anyways.. she seems to be solved at the moment.  

This is what I got out of my left fork seal that had just started weeping like yours. Note that I had not yet done the dust seal in the lower part of the pic. I did get some grease and dirt out of it but not like the seal itself.

[andrewdonald1]

Same color as mine.  Not sure I had as much black coloring but overall the same.

BTW: worked pretty slick didn't it? 

[MotoG5]

Same color as mine.  Not sure I had as much black coloring but overall the same.

BTW: worked pretty slick didn't it? 

Yes it did. Three days of riding now and no leaks. I think my black coloring is due to dirt as the bike has 13k plus miles on it. Seals always did weep just a little from the start. I got the same grease/dirt crud out of both seals but the right one had not started leaking like the left did.

[Luap McKeever]

Old thread I know.  But, still worthwhile.

My NTX left fork has been seeping since I bought it.  Normally, in my experiences they clear up on their own so I didn't pay it much attention.  In the last 400 miles or so, it's been getting worse.

I found this thread and made my own little fork doctor tool out of a rattle can paint cap.  It worked like a dream and pulled all kinds of factory crud out of the seal once I removed the dust cover.

Knocking on wood here, but 100 miles so far and the fork is nice and dry.