advice on astronomical binoculars for 93 year old mom with macular degeneration?

[lucydad]

All,

Just stumped here.  And I will ask advice.  So here is the deal:  my 93 year old mom in Durango, CO loves to gaze at the stars, moon, planets, etc.
This is a life long interest for her.  When we moved her from her house just over a year ago her 20X zoom binoculars did not make it.  Got left behind in our rush and lack of time and general insanity.

So, she wants another pair.  I have searched the interweb, and Celestron, and Amazon and don't know what to buy her.  She is pretty frail and hands and arms not that strong.  Me thinks that seriously she is grasping for past ability with failing eyesight.  Yet I want to help her and at least give it a try. 

Any advice please?  Likely order from Amazon as they deliver.  Problem is there are no returns.  Other problem is I honestly think she is suffering from wishful thinking. 

Thoughts?  My best shot currently after research are these:

http://www.amazon.com/Celestron-72023-SkyMaster-9x63-Binoculars/dp/B0007UQNS6/ref=pd_sim_p_4?ie=UTF8&refRID=1AKD1RSMPFBKYPXRYPX8

And I think the more powerful, and heavy ones are too big for her?

http://www.amazon.com/Celestron-71020-SkyMaster-25-125x80-Binoculars/dp/B0014HODWE/ref=sr_1_6?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1424574092&sr=1-6&keywords=binoculars+for+astronomy#Ask

I figure if she does not like whatever I get, I will retrieve them from her this summer for my own use.  She tends to flail about a lot trying to regain past abilities, and not accept her current low abilities with eye sight due to the macular degeneration. 

Thanks in advance

[Nic in Western NYS]

11x80s and a Sky Window - she won't have to lift anything.

[mrrick]

My Mom had the same condition, and I was stunned when she came back from a week-long "skills camp" with a white cane.  I didn't want to face the fact that her vision was so bad.
I'm no help with the astronomy issue, sorry, but just wanted to pipe up and say that her reluctance to accept her failing eyesight (as long as it doesn't become a safety issue) could perhaps be interpreted as a good sign, that she treasures her independence and is still willing to fight for what she wants.
Good on you, for making the effort to help her keep the things she likes. I hope you have many more years together, and have some fun figuring out what works...

[Moto]

11x80s and a Sky Window - she won't have to lift anything.

Though I haven't tried the Sky Window myself, I think that is an excellent recommendation. It is hard to hold astronomical binoculars steady, even if you're not 93. The Sky Window keeps them steady, and seems like it would be superior to a tripod for comfort and steadiness.

One thing to keep in mind for older people is that the exit diameter of the beam of light from the binoculars can be too large for their eyes. The fully dilated pupil of the eye is about 5mm for old people, vs. 7mm for younger ones (up to 40 or 50 years?). Those 11x80 binoculars that Nic suggests have a 7mm exit diameter, meaning about 50% of the gathered light from the 80mm objective lens will fall outside the pupil of an elderly viewer. [The exit diameter is equal to the objective diameter divided by the magnification: 80/11 = 7.27mm. The wasted light gathering can be calculated by observing that a 5mm pupil only covers about 50% of a 7mm light beam (5^2 / 7^2 = 25/49 = .51).] The 9x63 pair mentioned by lucydad also has a 7mm exit pupil. Going for a 5mm exit pupil can avoid the extra weight needed to gather more light for younger eyes at any given magnification.

I'm up in the 5mm exit pupil age range and recently bought some 15x70 Celestrons, with a 4.67mm exit diameter. They perform very well and are remarkably light.

Binoculars are nicer for casual viewing than telescopes, I think, because of the great field of view. The Sky Window would make them enjoyable for your mom. Here's an informative review: http://www.tricomachine.com/skywindow/sandt.html.

[rboe]

http://www.cloudynights.com/forum/64-binoculars/


Probably the best source on the Internet for this question. If she is used to using binoculars she should be given the opportunity to try them. There may be public outreach star parties near her (many clubs hold Messier Marathon in March, a good opportunity to check out the sky with scopes of many different sizes).

Logically, a scope makes a lot of sense, but they don't provide the nice wide field views binoculars provide. An some what expensive alternative, bino-viewers attached to a telescope.

[Sasquatch Jim]

  Does anyone sell a camera with high resolution that can be plugged into a TV or computer screen where it could be digitally magnified?
  Surely such a thing exists but are they marketed?

[rodekyll]

I have no specific recommendations, but I think the idea above about a tripod is good advice.

A suggestion would be a celestial scope-type tripod with a programmable motor drive so if she's watching something she can dial it in and it will auto-track it for her.  Up around 20x it can be very difficult keeping an object in the field of view.  A computerized motor drive would make it effortless.

[MRLost]

+1 for Moto

Amazon has 15x70 Celestrons on sale for less than a dollar a millimeter (yes, that's really inexpensive).

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00008Y0VN/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

They will require a tripod but they come with a tripod adapter.

Buy a relatively heavy duty tripod because a cheap, lightweight tripod is almost worse than no tripod at all.

The problem with tripods is they are designed for looking at things in the horizontal plane, not the vertical plane, so if possible, get the binoculars and then go to a camera store and ask to try some tripods. Tell'em what you need and why. Then see if it's possible to mount the bins and point them up and still get under them so you can look at the ceiling.

The suggestion of a Sky-Window is excellent. (For those who don't know, that's a big mirror that you put on a table and then look down into with a pair of binoculars. MUCH easier on your neck. People ask what you need to view meteors ... a lounge chair so you can lie on you back and look up without craning your neck.)

Best of luck with your mom. Getting old ain't for sissies.

[Nic in Western NYS]

The problem with tripods is that the viewing position often requires physical contortions which are likely hard for a 90+ year old, separate from the eyesight issue.  That's why the Sky Window.  The choice of binoculars is more a matter of choice for her, but the exit diameter of the beam is very important, it could be that a narrower exit diameter would be better as the optics of the eye deteriorate.

[Bill Havins]

No one has addressed the "macular degeneration" part of your question.  Let's see - binoculars/telescopes and macular degeneration.  Nope.  Can't get those two in the same box.

As macular degeneration continues (it is not uncommon in older persons) central vision is lost.  That includes the area of vision that "sees" colors.  The individual is left to rely on their peripheral vision for sighted tasks.  They can not see objects in their environment (including the night sky or magnified images in binoculars/telescopes) if they look at them directly.  They have to direct their gaze some 7° or more to the left or right of what they want to see if they have any hope of "seeing it" at all.  When they "see it" it is like "seeing" something out of the corner of their eye, because that is exactly what they are doing.  In that position the image is perceived in shades of gray, rather than color that is perceived by an "intact" macula.

I would encourage you to peruse web sites dedicated to those who have macular degeneration or other conditions producing "central blindness."  You may stumble across discussions of devices and techniques others have developed that allow them to continue their enjoyment of star-gazing in spite of their loss of central vision.

Good luck!

[Bill N]

Sky window takes some setup and a tripod. Big bino's requiring a tripod don't work too good for an oldster because you have to bend your neck to view above the horizon. I vote for a wide angle 7X35 bino. Lightweight and a 5mm exit pupil. With these she can sit in a chair and browse through the sky.
Bill

[Nic in Western NYS]

Sky window takes some setup and a tripod. Big bino's requiring a tripod don't work too good for an oldster because you have to bend your neck to view above the horizon. I vote for a wide angle 7X35 bino. Lightweight and a 5mm exit pupil. With these she can sit in a chair and browse through the sky.
Bill

No tripod for Sky Window, it rests on a flat surface.

[lucydad]

All,

Thanks for your kind and expert replies.  I talked to her again tonight:  yes she definitely wants them for planet and star and moon viewing.  She is a tough old survivor and I will help her and see what happens. 

Best answer may indeed be:  "15x70 Celestrons, with a 4.67mm exit diameter".  Her MD has progressed, I know that for a fact.  She sees less than she did even a year or two ago.  So, its a crap shoot and I figure if they don't work we can say we tried and I will use them myself. 

At work we have an engineer who is a serious, serious amateur astronomer.  He has some of the big tubes with mirrors.  So, I will also query him.  She can't lift anything much over five pounds.  So that is a big limitation.  Never heard of a sky table, need to look that one up.

I hope I have her interests in life when I am nearly 94. 

cheers,

[crc]

my poor old mother has macular degeneration as well, she is 82, and lives by herslf. I fear her body is going to give up before her eyesight totally fails though. her knees are bad and shes pretty stubborn and tries to be as independent as she can be. she doesn't like people fussing over her but I think its only a matter of time before shes going to need home care

[Nic in Western NYS]

11x80s and a Sky Window - she won't have to lift anything.

http://www.tricomachine.com/skywindow/

http://www.tricomachine.com/skywindow/

I have no commercial interest in the product but it's a fantastic piece of (American made) engineering well designed and executed.

[bratman2]

I disagree, pass on the 15x70 binoculars from Amazon. Chinese binoculars have come a long way but at that price point there is still a fair amount of duds shipped. My suggestion would be a used Celestron or Meade that were made in Japan. I have a pair of the Meade Japan 20x80 armored binoculars that I snagged off Ebay for around $150 or so with shipping a couple of years ago. Very similar in size, field of view, weight of the classic Bausch & Lomb 20x80 binoculars that use to sell for $400-$500. I believe they were made at the same factory but can't swear to it being I used to own a pair many years ago and they are long gone.  Yes they need a tripod or this sky window thing. Make sure they have a return policy and check collimation when they arrive. That is just my opinion.

[Moto]

I disagree, pass on the 15x70 binoculars from Amazon. Chinese binoculars have come a long way but at that price point there is still a fair amount of duds shipped. My suggestion would be a used Celestron or Meade that were made in Japan. I have a pair of the Meade Japan 20x80 armored binoculars that I snagged off Ebay for around $150 or so with shipping a couple of years ago. Very similar in size, field of view, weight of the classic Bausch & Lomb 20x80 binoculars that use to sell for $400-$500. I believe they were made at the same factory but can't swear to it being I used to own a pair many years ago and they are long gone.  Yes they need a tripod or this sky window thing. Make sure they have a return policy and check collimation when they arrive. That is just my opinion.

My 15x70 Celestrons are very, very nice. The negative comments on Amazon are all (or almost all??) about collimation (alignment) problems, which are not hard to correct for anyone who owns a Guzzi; besides, you can return them to Amazon if you prefer. Mine were fine out of the box. The complainers on any product seem to suck up all the space, but, even so, 60% of the 1300 or so reviews are 5 stars! (Read some of the longer ones!) It is unfortunate that shipping problems may be knocking some out of alignment, as I guess is the case.

Another nice part about these binoculars is the weight -- listed at 3.28 lbs. I did put mine on the scales, but forget the exact value I saw -- somewhere close. I find I can hand-hold these, even at 15x power, but don't know whether lucydad's mom will do that.

Moto

[Bill N]

Youse guys are dreaming thinking of putting 15X70's in the hands of a 93 year old. I have a collection of bino's and I find the 15X70's very hard to hold steady and I'm 30 years younger. Maybe she's super granny. Bino's dont show detail on planets so no reason to go big. Lower power bino's will show a more steady view of the moon, earth shine etc. I think a 93 year old would have difficulty hand holding 10X or more. Get this fine old lady a quality small bino. Don't rule out roof prisim's. Great for terrestial viewing too.
Bill

[bratman2]

Not talking about your pair which arrived fine. I will conceded the Meade binoculars I have are around 5 lbs so they might be a poor choice. I find laying in a lounge chair from the pool allows me to hold high power binocular steadier. Have not tried the 20x80 like that though. I have a Manfrotto tripod for them.

[lucydad]

Bill N,

Much appreciated comment and I think accurate.  May I ask for a recommendation please for smaller bino?

Talked with very fine engineer friend at work who also is a dedicated, if not obsessed amateur astronomer.  He basically said:  no solution here given parameters.

Try and tell that to my mom.  Still trying for a fit to the curve, and not decided. 

[rboe]

He's right, but Mom wants to try and I'll bet she has earned the right to do so. I used something like the Sky Window that I got from BigBinoculars.com. Easy on the neck, every thing supported by a very heavy duty tripod. Sit in a chair, relax, look down to look up. A buddy up in Prescott added a laser pointer, because, well, it can be dang hard to figure out where to point the mirror. :)

Most of the cheaper (all really) are only show nice pointy stars in the center 60%+. Bothers some folks a lot. Others, less so. I have a pair of 15x70's that I can't use at night due to ghosting on bright objects. Star and planet viewing really test the optics of a binocular.

They are expensive, but Canon makes some self stabilizing bino's that are a wonder. Hard to say no once you try them.

[Bill N]

Bill N,

Much appreciated comment and I think accurate.  May I ask for a recommendation please for smaller bino?

Talked with very fine engineer friend at work who also is a dedicated, if not obsessed amateur astronomer.  He basically said:  no solution here given parameters.

Try and tell that to my mom.  Still trying for a fit to the curve, and not decided. 

I think your friend might be right, that's why I wouldn't spend too much money but you don't want to buy junk. I'm not up to date on current models but I'd search Canon for 35 mm to 42 mm bino's 7 to 8X. Gyro stabilized is a possibility but they are expensive. Good news is they might be enjoyed by other family members. Good luck in any case...Hey my mom is 105 years old and doing well.
Bill