Too much for a 1400 Custom?

[idahorider]

Local Harley dealer has an 2014 California Custom for sale for $14,750. It has 6,000 on the odometer, original tires and accessories that include a factory windshield, fiberglass saddlebags, a top case and aftermarket pipes. I know the bike can be had new for less than $14,000, but do the accessories make this a reasonable price?
Paul Emerson

[Lannis]

Local Harley dealer has an 2014 California Custom for sale for $14,750. It has 6,000 on the odometer, original tires and accessories that include a factory windshield, fiberglass saddlebags, a top case and aftermarket pipes. I know the bike can be had new for less than $14,000, but do the accessories make this a reasonable price?
Paul Emerson

If:

1) The dealer is one you like and trust and would like to deal with AND

2) The accessories are ones that you would have bought anyway if you'd found a new bike without them ....

... then I'd walk in with cash or a check and make him a serious offer!

Lannis

[youcanrunnaked]

Yes, too much.

No, the accessories do not justify the price.

[fotoguzzi]

Yes, too much.

No, the accessories do not justify the price.

What he said..

[Joliet Jim]

Gee I would have thought that was pretty fair . It sounds like it's setup as a touring with aftermarket pipes. There's one of those around here for 14 plus without pipes. I'm not saying it's a steal but seems fair depending on what they are going for in your area. I've noriced a big disparity in Guzzi prices based on location

[Lannis]

Gee I would have thought that was pretty fair . It sounds like it's setup as a touring with aftermarket pipes. There's one of those around here for 14 plus without pipes. I'm not saying it's a steal but seems fair depending on what they are going for in your area. I've noriced a big disparity in Guzzi prices based on location

Not only that, but I think that we (sometimes me) spend too much time worrying about how to squeeze the last nickel out of a sale price, and ignoring the quality, location, and suitability of the bike, and the relationship with the dealer.

If it's somewhere in the range, it's worth considering.   You might go to some fly-by-night, pay less money, and end up with a flood bike or a bike you end up spending $3000 on to get it like you want ....

Lannis

[LowRyter]

 :PICS!:

[lucian]

Will need tires real soon, personally I don't think the accessories add value, if anything I think 100% stock is best. Not saying it isn't a fair price but your not far off from the cost a new one with another year of warranty and new skins.

[fotoguzzi]

If you got it and then had to sell, could you get close to the price? unlikely.

[mtiberio]

that could be $4000 or more in accessories if those are factory bags and top box.

windshield $500
touring bags $1500
touring top box $1000+ ($350 just for the rack)
aftermarket pipes $1000 on up

[youcanrunnaked]

Moto Guzzi's resale value is not good.  If this is the bike that you want (including all of the accessories), you don't think you will find another like it for a better price anytime soon, and you don't plan on selling it for a good long while, then try to negotiate your best price and buy it.

However, since you specifically asked whether the asking price was "too much," and whether the accessories make this a "reasonable price," I stand by my response.

I was going to suggest that around $12K +/- would be an okay price, but wanted to see what NADA and KBB have to say.  (Yes, I know these listings are flawed, particularly when it comes to bikes that sell in low volumes, but still....)

NADA (with accessories) = $10,015 low retail; $13,117 average retail.  Note that per NADA, the second-hand value of the accessories is only around $500.00.
KBB = $12,705 in excellent condition (e.g., not needing a set of tires).  

I have seen a few used California 1400 Customs for sale in the $10 -$11K range, so I don't think the NADA values are too far from the truth.

[Lannis]

Will need tires real soon, personally I don't think the accessories add value ....

They do if you are planning to buy them anyway.   I bought my Stelvio bare and spent $2500 adding accessories before I even took delivery; if they'd been on there already, it certainly would have affected the amount I would have paid for it.

Don't know if that's the situation here, but 100% stock isn't everyone's cup of tea, especially if they're going touring ....

I'd definitely negotiate the price of a couple of tires off the asking.

Lannis

[Cam3512]

that could be $4000 or more in accessories if those are factory bags and top box.

windshield $500
touring bags $1500
touring top box $1000+ ($350 just for the rack)
aftermarket pipes $1000 on up

If that is the case then YES, and accessories DO add value.

[dilligaf]

I always pay way to much for my motorcycles and sell them for far less than they are worth.  :beat_horse  Knowing that to be a fact, if it's a motorcycle I want, I just buy it and enjoy.  On the other hand all the accessories do is make it easier to sell.  I, personally, do not think they add the $ value. :BEER:
Matt

[Lannis]

I always pay way to much for my motorcycles and sell them for far less than they are worth.  :beat_horse  Knowing that to be a fact, if it's a motorcycle I want, I just buy it and enjoy.  On the other hand all the accessories do is make it easier to sell.  I, personally, do not think they add the $ value. :BEER:
Matt

Generally, I find that I do the same thing, although I generally sell them for what they are "worth", the "worth" part being defined by what someone will pay for it.

I try to buy nice bikes from credible people that I know, bikes that I WANT, and I don't try to squeeze the last penny out of the seller.   

In all the years I've been buying bikes, that plan has only failed ONCE.   I bought a supposedly nice Guzzi California from a well-known Guzzi Guy.   It barely made it home to my garage, because it was filled with the biggest, worst, horriblest collection of electrical bodges I've ever seen under the seat and covers of a bike.    24-gauge wire, lamp cord, big plastic wire nuts, DUCT TAPE wrapping connections, by the time I was done I must have ripped 100 feet of that tat from this bike.

I paid a high price to get into this bike based on reputation.   But that's the ONLY time it's failed me.

So I buy bikes for what I WANT, and I sell them for what they are WORTH.    No bragging rights on how much money I made, but I sleep well.

Lannis

[mtiberio]

there is a California Touring on ebay right now for $13000. with bags and windshield.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/231510686237

[dilligaf]

Duck tape doesn't add to the value.  :+=copcar  You're kidding right?   ???  Oh, tell me you are kidding cause if you aren't I sure have screwed myself.  :winer  :BEER:
Matt

[rodekyll]

Matt, you embarrass me.  I run a class operation.  I know for a fact that we repaired your beemer with wire ties and a genuine faux napoleon mirror, not duc tape.

[Bill Hagan]

Since I am responding to a thread, I suppose this isn't ordinary spam even if my brother has an interest in this sale.   ;)

Riders hill -- technically, Black Mountain Motorsports for this purpose -- has my brother's California 1400 Touring on its website.

Go here: http://www.blackmountaincycles.com/pages/motorcycles-for-sale.php

It's the second machine on the list, at least today.

Gives an idea of how that model, with quite a few extras -- including brand-new tires, which I need to tell the folks at Riders Hill to note ... unless that's part of the on-the-scene sales pitch  :D -- compares to the one in Washington.  

Course, it's a long way for a fly & buy, Paul, but would be a mighty fine way to do the deed ... with the Cherohala Skyway, Tail of the Dragon, and more on the way back to Clarkston.   ;D

Bill

[edited because auto text is faster than I am.  ::) ]

[dilligaf]

Matt, you embarrass me.  I run a class operation.  I know for a fact that we repaired your beemer with wire ties and a genuine faux napoleon mirror, not duc tape.

David,
I would have said something but come on, you were offering a dry bed, beer and food in the frig.  ;-T Sometimes you just have to, well you know............... :BEER:
Matt
Matt

PS:  I repaired the turn signal stalk and removed the wire tie.  Doesn't work any better but does look correct-it is a BMW you know.  Mirror is still going strong.

[dilligaf]

"Local Harley dealer has an 2014 California Custom for sale for $14,750."  It's the location that is driving the price.  The MG in question is not worth the price of the HD's but is a better value making it worth more than the same bike at Riders Hill.  Think about it.  A comparably equipped Harley is worth a hell of a lot more than the MG but isn't near the value.  And what Bill said.  :BEER:
Matt 

[mjptexas]

Local Harley dealer has an 2014 California Custom for sale for $14,750.........

From what I've seen you take a beating trading anything but a Harley in on a Harley.

KKB retail is $12,705.  if it doesn't have new tires it will need them, and it will need a 6,000 mile service. I don't know how the warranty will be treated. 

Good luck.

[Waltr]

  The warrany is on the vehicle not who owns it. If a dealer tells you different you don't want them to work on it anyway.  There is a difference for factory accessories and aftermarket.  That said most Harley dealers don't bury themselves in trade -ins.  Should be some room there if you want the bike.  Check Cycle Trader and compare.

[lucian]

I would agree that if a buyer is interested a bike that has modified to his or her liking it may add value for them. But whenever I have traded a bike in at a dealer, I have rarely, if ever been given consideration for mods. My last trade in , a t 100 Bonneville, they asked if I still had the stock pipes and would prefer them over the 1200 dollar pea shooters I had on it. Flea bay to the rescue. I would not let a dealer tell me a used bike they are selling is worth more modded out , when I know they wouldn't give you more if you had brought it in to trade. Just my own experience. Best of luck, it sound like you might have some wiggle room on the number.

[idahorider]

Thanks for all the comments. I may try to ride it Tuesday, if I can convince myself I want that much bike. A 750 might make more sense, though I fear I might look like a bear on  tricycle if I climbed on one.
Apparently, this bike was traded for a Harley at a Spokane dealership. I wonder if they shipped here to distance it from the Spokane Guzzi dealership.
Bill: The fly and ride sounds fun, though I'm not sure how I'd manage the logistics at this point.

Paul

[Lannis]

Thanks for all the comments. I may try to ride it Tuesday, if I can convince myself I want that much bike. A 750 might make more sense, though I fear I might look like a bear on  tricycle if I climbed on one.

Paul

I ride my old 600 and 650cc bikes around everywhere, and I take solace in the fact that a bear on a tricycle is still a bear ..... !   Better than looking like the proverbial monkey and football ... !

Lannis

[Kev m]

I think generally we (as a group) are very hard on used bike prices...i.e. we're a bunch of cheap bastids.

You can argue value all day long, but the truth is that it would cost you much more to buy that new (and it's damn near new).

Let's look at it:

Local Harley dealer has an 2014 California Custom for sale for $14,750. It has 6,000 on the odometer, original tires and accessories that include a factory windshield, fiberglass saddlebags, a top case and aftermarket pipes. I know the bike can be had new for less than $14,000, but do the accessories make this a reasonable price?
Paul Emerson

Here's my analysis.

Cali 1400 Custom MSRP - $15,490
Cali 1400 Touring MSRP - $18,490

The Touring doesn't have as nice a rear suspension as the Custom, but does come with the windshield (check), the saddlebags (check), passing lamps (missing from this custom), and some crash bars (I'll presume missing from this custom).

TYPICALLY speaking accessories don't add much to the value of a used bike, especially the older it gets.

But since this is ALMOST brand new, and IF those are things you would have wanted on a Custom, or you would have considered a touring model to get them, then $14,750 is cheaper than you would buy it new by THOUSANDS of dollars (especially if you paid freight and prep on top of it all).

So personally, if this was the bike I wanted, I would not be too scared of making an offer.

KBB puts the values (on the right coast) as:

$9200 trade in
$12705 retail

Now that said, it's a Harley dealer and they likely made a good buck on whatever they sold when they took it in. And they also have volume and merchandizing on their side. So even if they broke even on this bike they're good (and they'd probably be happy just to get it out of inventory as it's a little left of center for them).

They also quite likely didn't pay more than $10-12k for the trade.

Meaning I suspect strongly a $12k offer might do the deal.

So that's probably where I would start (unless you really wanted to play hardball and try starting at $10k, maybe go in with some cycletrader or ebay adds - there are over 100 Cali's for sale on cycletrader nationwide, many of them new, a couple of used ones in the $12k range, but once you make an offer you can't go back down):

http://www.cycletrader.com/Moto-Guzzi-California-Motorcycles----CycleTrader.com/search-results?make=Moto%20guzzi%7C2319674&model=California%7C764948631&vrsn=hybrid

Hell, I talked the local Harley dealer down that much on a Buell they were asking $5k for just over a year ago.

The answer to the question unasked is always no.

[youcanrunnaked]

^^^  I agree with most of what you wrote, Kev, but allow me to play devil's advocate.

A buyer of a new Cali 1400 Custom might not pay MSRP -- either for the bike, or the accessories, or both -- particularly if it is a NOS 2014 model.  (Right now, Moto Guzzi is taking $1,500 off the list price of 2014 Cali 1400's or giving $2,000 above book for trades; that does not include what a dealer might be motivated to offer on top of that incentive.)

That Harley dealer probably gave a credit of $9,200 (plus $500 for all of the accessories) for that bike in trade.  (H-D dealers are notorious for giving squat for non-Harley trades.)

No vehicle dealer will ever give a traded used vehicle away at their cost or less, even if they made money on the vehicle they sold to the person trading in the vehicle.  Two points:
    1.  They need to make money on EVERY transaction.  That's their mindset; it's a business, not a philanthropy.
    2.  As a general rule, vehicle dealers make their big money on used vehicles, not new vehicles.  Why?  Because nobody knows what they paid for them, and nobody can say for certain what they should sell for.  (Compare that to new vehicle sales these days, where most people can look up the profit margins on new vehicles with fifteen minutes' worth of internet research.) It is very hard to negotiate a good deal on a used vehicle from a dealer (or to get a fair price for a trade-in); most people (on both ends of the transaction) get hosed.

As a buyer, I would start the negotiation at $11,000 and see what happens.

[Kev m]

YouC - I think your points may be valid, but I don't accept them as absolutes.

I know for a fact that a number of dealers (both car and bike) blow used stuff out at auction either because their used lot is full or it doesn't fit the profile of what they want to carry. That's why they generally start their used vehicle valuations with Galves or some other auction sheet/log-in (Manheim).

I think new car dealers tend to go for volume over individual margin these days.

Sure a lot of people get decent information on msrp and invoice etc. these days, but then again there are plenty who don't bother, or who just look at KBB Fair Market value or one of the auto buying sites. Those people all buy at prices that leaves something on the table for dealer profit (and not even counting holdback).

And, as you noted, dealers have multiple revenue streams - new vehicle sales (and people seem to forget holdback), used sales, service, and with motorcycles - parts & accessories, gear & clothing.

The later is a huge piece of the puzzle for Harley dealers, so I still suspect they could blow something like this out at little or no profit.

And you may be right, they may not have gone above 10 on the trade...

[kirb]

Local Harley dealer has an 2014 California Custom for sale for $14,750. It has 6,000 on the odometer, original tires and accessories that include a factory windshield, fiberglass saddlebags, a top case and aftermarket pipes. I know the bike can be had new for less than $14,000, but do the accessories make this a reasonable price?
Paul Emerson

They ~might~ give KBB trade on that bike to the previous owner. NO ADDED MONEY was given on acc for that trade. No added money should be considered on the sale. Are they MG acc? Consider that when making ~your~ choice, not theirs.

Retail prices are higher than private party sales because the dealer is supposed to get the bike up to retail value...like putting new tires on it. Discount accordingly.

HD dealers want to move non-HD stock. They don't know much about them typically. The standard HD buyer isn't interested. Try $500 over trade value and be prepared to walk away. I doubt they get much foot traffic on that bike. They might share the trade value paid just to move it (not likely, but it can't hurt to ask).