NGC - gun shop experiences

[segesta]

Background: a couple of weeks ago my family completed the NRA Basic Pistol Shooting course at a local range. I am not interested in home defense or concealed-carry, I simply think that knowing how to safely handle and shoot a gun is a worthwhile skill. Like riding a motorcycle.

Of course, we all loved it and now I am interested in buying a .22 target pistol--the Browning Buckmark is the leading contender, despite being impossible to disassemble and clean.

But my customer experience at gun shops is really turning me off. I've gone to two locally owned shops and a Bass Pro Shops, and the guys behind the counter are invariably--what's the best word--dicks. Grumpy, impatient, distracted, arrogant, terse. I'm a normal, presentable, boring middle aged guy. I am not a goof. So I'm thinking that there is some inherent genetic flaw that draws these people into gun sales. Or maybe I'm doing something wrong, not using the secret handshake or something.

Your thoughts and advice are welcomed.

(see, one of the reasons I became a Guzzi fan is that Jim Barron at Rose Farm is a great guy to simply talk with and bum a smoke from. I have no qualms approaching him with a dumb or obscure question about my bike. I get the exact opposite feeling from gun shops--and if I can't build a relationship with these guys, I'm not sure I want to bother)

[ponti_33609]

Background: a couple of weeks ago my family completed the NRA Basic Pistol Shooting course at a local range. I am not interested in home defense or concealed-carry, I simply think that knowing how to safely handle and shoot a gun is a worthwhile skill. Like riding a motorcycle.

Of course, we all loved it and now I am interested in buying a .22 target pistol--the Browning Buckmark is the leading contender, despite being impossible to disassemble and clean.

But my customer experience at gun shops is really turning me off. I've gone to two locally owned shops and a Bass Pro Shops, and the guys behind the counter are invariably--what's the best word--dicks. Grumpy, impatient, distracted, arrogant, terse. I'm a normal, presentable, boring middle aged guy. I am not a goof. So I'm thinking that there is some inherent genetic flaw that draws these people into gun sales. Or maybe I'm doing something wrong, not using the secret handshake or something.

Your thoughts and advice are welcomed.

(see, one of the reasons I became a Guzzi fan is that Jim Barron at Rose Farm is a great guy to simply talk with and bum a smoke from. I have no qualms approaching him with a dumb or obscure question about my bike. I get the exact opposite feeling from gun shops--and if I can't build a relationship with these guys, I'm not sure I want to bother)

Hi - FWIW, I have purchased 2, online through Gunbroker.com.  Like an eBay for guns.  This of course is if you know really what it is you want to buy.  I do not love local shops either.  They will ship to a licensed shop and you simply pick it up.....in FL was like a $30 fee.

[AJ Huff]

I have had mostly the same experience in every shop I have been in save one in Kalamazoo. I only go in now when I know exactly what I want.

-AJ

[rocker59]

Hmmm.

I've never had this experience at a gun shop.

Now, one of our better shops is really busy, so getting much attention is tough sometimes.

But, the old d00ds who work the counters at Cabela's, Atwoods, and most local gun shops and pawn shops seem just fine.

Do your research online.  Don't go in asking lots of n00b questions.

Keep in mind that they get LOTS of tire-kickers and time-wasters each day.

Go in, ask for what you want.  Look at it.  Handle it.  Buy it, or don't buy it.

Gun shop d00ds remind me a lot of the average Guzzisti.  Enthusiastic and very knowledgeable, with a bit of a patience problem with people who haven't done their homework.

[raul]

Please remember that for every customer that actually buys a gun, there are probably fifty that are just looking.

[Sasquatch Jim]

 Okay,

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U72ZRh4W8OU

[rocker59]

Please remember that for every customer that actually buys a gun, there are probably fifty that are just looking.

Yep.  And based on some of the lookers I've seen, it's easy to understand why the folks at the shops can be distracted/impatient/etc.

An average gun shop gets a lot more traffic than an average Guzzi dealer.

You have to be a repeat customer in order to build relationships.  You can't just randomly walk in and expect them to offer you a smoke, or whatever.

I've had one gun shop where I felt like they "knew me".  I bought all my ammo there and one gun.  I stopped in regularly, and sometimes was there with a co-worker who was also a regular customer who bought a lot from them.  I'm sure they remembered me because of him.  But it was good to have that recognition.

[Lannis]

I have had mostly the same experience in every shop I have been in save one in Kalamazoo. I only go in now when I know exactly what I want.

-AJ

I agree; I've had the same experience in many shops I've been in.   Haven't seriously been in one for years though.

I'm looking at my collection now.    50% of my guns were procured or inherited through the family.   The other half were bought at gun shows; I wait until there's a great deal on one that I've been particularly looking for.

So I don't have a particular need for a gun shop ....

Lannis

[Triple Jim]

It may partly be a city/country thing.  The last time I was in the local shop in the small town nearby, I was just trying to buy a couple bow strings, and the guys there happily spent 15 minutes attempting to match up what they had with the sample I brought.

[segesta]

Thanks for the advice. You're probably right, they get every wannabe gangsta douchebag with a FOID (this is Illinois) looking to hold the gun sideways or whatever. But there is definitely a lack of professionalism at these places. The local tire shop is more pulled together than my local gun stores.

[dilligaf]

The only way to sell is to have people coming through the door.  Some will say no, some will say yes.  Each no has a value.  If you have 20 no's before you sell something and your profit is $200 then each no was worth $10.00.  So be thankful for the no's.  At least someone in coming through the door and that's a good thing.  :BEER:
Matt

[AlexK]

I've been to a few of the gun stores/ranges around Chicago and my two picks would be GAT guns in East Dundee and the Cabelas in Hoffman Estates.  I find positive customer service is inversely proportional to the distance from the city.  I've bought from GAT before, the people behind the counter are willing to answer questions and don't mind letting you handle whatever you are interested in.

[LonerDave]

I'm cheap by nature, so am always on the look-out for bargains as price is a very important factor for me.  For a long time, gun shows were a good place to get good deals on guns, but that seems to have changed now.

Again, because I'm cheap, I generally avoid big chain stores because I assume they have higher overhead and therefore higher prices.

But the last two guns I've purchased were from Cabela's.  The buying experience was so positive that they are my preferred source these days.  BTW, no affiliation with Cabela's.

1) Used Remington 870 12 gauge.  Cabela's had a large selection of used shotguns and the "sales associate" was very helpful and friendly.  Took me into a side room and showed me how to disassemble, switch barrels (came with hunting and tactical barrels).  Really a very pleasant, knowledgeable and friendly guy. He made recommendations for shells and even fetched a couple boxes for me. He walked me over to the counter where the paperwork and purchase was completed.  The female clerk there was also very friendly and helpful.  While waiting for paperwork to be printed she told me stories about how her dad taught her on an 870 like I was buying.  Their policy is to walk gun purchases to the door where they hand it over to you.  So, good selection, friendly, knowledgeable staff and a good price to boot.

2) New Remington 700 in .308.  Same experience.  Great price and in-store help.  Guy asked if I needed a scope (I did) and he made a recommendation on a mid-to-entry-level scope when I told him the intended use (paper-punching at 100-300 yards).  Found rings for me.  Bore sighted it while I waited (no charge).  And the same pleasant experience at purchase counter.

Frankly I was surprised by how nice both experiences were.  I've been to the small shops with the surly owners, so I appreciate the contrast.  

My 2 cents.

[boatdetective]

I've had some negative experiences and can generally agree with the grumpy attitude. However, I can think of one particular shop where folks are very nice and go out of their way to make you feel welcome.  As for the "noob" think- I find that offensive. How is someone expected to learn? My business is essentially being a consultant. Questions put food on my table- so i'm always happy to share information.

One word of warning- guns are like guzzis- you can't have just one! 22 pistols are great fun. As your attoney, i strongly recommend it as a prudent purchase.  Several thoughts- 22 rounds are puny and may not cycle all actions. Some of the new pistols have not had the best reputation. The Browning is proven. I owna  Ruger MkII with a bull barrel and they are fun. The Ruger 22/45 has a cheapy plastic frame, but the rest of it is the classic ruger auto. Very inexpensive. Of course, you do realize that once you start plinking with a pistol, you're going to want to try a 22 rifle....   don't blame me. You asked for it.

[ponti_33609]

I've had some negative experiences and can generally agree with the grumpy attitude. However, I can think of one particular shop where folks are very nice and go out of their way to make you feel welcome.  As for the "noob" think- I find that offensive. How is someone expected to learn? My business is essentially being a consultant. Questions put food on my table- so i'm always happy to share information.

One word of warning- guns are like guzzis- you can't have just one! 22 pistols are great fun. As your attoney, i strongly recommend it as a prudent purchase.  Several thoughts- 22 rounds are puny and may not cycle all actions. Some of the new pistols have not had the best reputation. The Browning is proven. I owna  Ruger MkII with a bull barrel and they are fun. The Ruger 22/45 has a cheapy plastic frame, but the rest of it is the classic ruger auto. Very inexpensive. Of course, you do realize that once you start plinking with a pistol, you're going to want to try a 22 rifle....   don't blame me. You asked for it.

Those Rugers are my favorite 22 to plink with.

[rocker59]

Some version of the Ruger MKIII .22/45 would be a good one to look at.

I like the slab-side bull barrel, myself, and the fact that the ergos mimic the Colt 1911.

[rodekyll]

Some version of the Ruger MKIII .22/45 would be a good one to look at.

I like the slab-side bull barrel, myself, and the fact that the ergos mimic the Colt 1911.

This.
I have MKII's and 22/45's.  The 22/45 is 'supposed to be' the same weight and balance as a 1911 (classic Colt 45 auto).  It's not, but it's close enough that you can 'tune up' on it and switch to the 1911 pretty seamlessly.  Also, the wimmins seem to like shooting it.  I lay out a good spread when we go to the range, and we're bringing noobies all the time.  The MKII and 22/45 are in constant use by the unfair sex.  When you find a piece that she likes you keep it.

Don't overlook the wheel guns.  Bearcats and other single six's can be a lot of fun to shoot.  The old S&W K-frame DA 22's are still some of he best target pieces ever made.  My Combat Masterpiece in .22 shoots better than me, and I can drill 90s with it all afternoon at the range.  Finally, for a classic in the woodsman/buckmark style, the High Standard is a hoot to shoot -- not so much fun to service.

[Gliderjohn]

I am lucky to have two decent independently owned gun shops. Both have knowledgeable and friendly staff. Some years back I was in another shop and it had a "good o'l boys" seating area. Talk about bad vibes when I walked into that shop!
Rare to find a pawn shop deal these days or knowledgable staff. Did get one good pawn shop buy some years back when I spotted a like new Belgium made Makarov 9x18. The employee told me it was priced cheap because ammo was not available for it. I knew better and walked out with it for $115.00. Was lucky that time!
GliderJohn

[Rich A]

I recently (last year) started shooting. I got a Ruger MK III 22/45, mounted a relatively inexpensive Bushnell red-dot, and it is very accurate, a tack driver. Then I got a Ruger SP101 .38/.357 revolver with a short barrel--it's really fun to shoot, but it's also hard to be accurate with such a short sight radius. Sure would be nice if the .22LR ammo wasn't in such short supply.

I had very positive experiences at the gun shops. Having done a bit of research helped and knowing some the terminology, pluses and minuses for the guns, etc. helped, I think. I saw a couple get thrown out of one store because the clerk decided the woman was buying a gun for the guy who must have had some kind of record.

Rich A

[rboe]

.22's are the best all around gun to get; except for today. Guns are easy to find. Ammo is darn near impossible. Buying .22 ammo, in theory, should be as easy as falling off a bike.

My old regular gun shop (I had long term clerks that knew me, a couple that did not - which was a bit annoying as I was in there a LOT, but I digress) will sell me a box or two, at a premium and can't get the old brand I used to shoot: Fiocchi target ammo (Italian naturally....  ;D ). So for now, I just don't shoot.

So for the price of .22 I think there are some center fire guns that will be just as cheap to shoot as .22 now and you may want to at least consider some. Say a 38 special (I'm taking a wild guess here, I have not seriously priced center fire in a while).

I'll recommend you look for a bulls eye league near by. Like bowling, they typically shoot one day a week (usually a week night). If  you take their advise you will be a half way decent shooter in short order and if you stick with it, well above average in a little longer. Typically there is no pressure to be a Master shooter or try out for the Olympics but there is the positive pressure to up your game.

A cheaper alternative (Guzzi content?) is air pistol/rifle. Not a BB gun but a decent pellet gun. Pellets can be had cheaply, worst case you get a CO2 gun and have to buy CO2 cartridges, or get a single stroke pumper or spring gun (IZH 46 is a well made single stroker that will shoot way better than you for a very long time). Air guns will teach you about trigger control and sight picture; the two things common with all guns that you have to be master of. And do it on a budget. Without the nasty risk of developing a flinch that a big firearm can do.

[JoeB]

 There's a reason on some firearms forums the warning is given to take any advice from someone behind the counter at a gun shop with a grain of salt. I find that especially true in the larger stores. Attitude is optional and my money walks. Fortunately in my local area the small shops are decent and get first chance with me. If you know exactly what you want there are online dealers. At Galleryofguns.com using their gun genie it will show dealers in your area who will accept shipment and the exact price out the door. Budsgunshop.com is another one that also has FFL dealers on list for your area. Recommend double checking transfers fees with the dealer you pick prior to ordering with Buds. Have used both in the past with no glitches. Another plus for the Ruger Mark series.
If you do go back to those shops perhaps proper attire may help. Think mall ninja. Just kidding.

[not-fishing]

I've been to a few of the gun stores/ranges around Chicago and my two picks would be GAT guns in East Dundee and the Cabelas in Hoffman Estates.  I find positive customer service is inversely proportional to the distance from the city.  I've bought from GAT before, the people behind the counter are willing to answer questions and don't mind letting you handle whatever you are interested in.

Living in the capital of the most or 2nd most anti-gun state in the USA I was thinking the same thing.

Chicago - fugetaboutit

Go further afield. 

One thing I've learned from being a competitive rifle / handgun for over a decade is that you have to search out the knowledgeable shop and sales staff.
At some shops, like the local Sportsman's Warehouse, I'll only listen to old Cavalry hatted James because I've been shooting matches with him for five years and he'll tell you when he doesn't know much about a certain gun.

Another thought would be to find the local club owned shooting range and see who they suggest.

From the standpoint of an IDPA competitor I wouldn't mess with a 22.  Right now you might just as well buy a 9 mm with a 4-5 inch barrel.  You won't save that much in ammo by using a 22 and if you dry-fire enough  the recoil of a little 9 mm won't bother you.

For full disclosure I compete with a 45 acp revolver so I'm a bit of a thug.  Maybe that's why I like my Griso so much.

 

[rodekyll]

.22 available by the brick or single box -- $3.80.  Still a bit high, but plentiful.  If your store is claiming a shortage it's because they're short-stocking to keep the price up and blaming it on the gubbmt -- just what their clientele likes to hear.  It's not because there's none to be had.

[charlie b]

Yep, get out of the city  ;)

We are lucky to have several good local gun shops.  The Sportsman's Warehouse is nice, but, some of the help isn't so great.

You said you got training at the local range.  Ask the instructor for help.  Ask nicely and see if he/she will go with you to the store.  That will get you 1) a known good store 2) they are probably known there and 3) they can ask questions that you might not think about.  If they can't go with you they can probably recommend a good shop.

Is there anyone else you know around there who shoots?  Ask them for assistance.  Many of us 'gun nuts' are more than happy to help noobs.  It is also nice sometimes to have someone to go shooting with.  Kinda like riding motorcycles...somet imes you want to be alone, sometimes with a group.

It also helps to visit the shops during the weekday when they aren't as crowded.

Is there an indoor range that also sells guns?  If they have the types you are looking for, rent a couple and try them out.  That is why they are in business.  Again, try and visit during less busy hours of the day/week.  Or, even make an appointment with them.  Explain what you want and that you would like some help with the selection and even training on how to disassemble and clean the gun you will buy.  Yes, it will cost a little more, but, in the long run it will be worth it.

Last, you mentioned family.  The gun you like may not be the one your wife/daughter/son likes.  I'd plan on buying two right at the start :)  And if everyone does like it, then you might start setting aside money for future purchases of ammo and guns :D  :D  :D  Yes, it is an addiction.  Once my wife got involved we ended up buying and trading for a while.  We have settled down a bit.  Down to less than 20 now  :) 

[sign216]

I have had mostly the same experience in every shop I have been in save one in Kalamazoo. I only go in now when I know exactly what I want.

-AJ

Yea, I've had negative experiences at gun stores. 
I'm a life long gun owner/NRA member. 
If I'm in a gun store and I need to know the time, I look at my watch. 
The broken watch on your wrist is usually better than the employee behind the counter. 


Edit:  Actually, the negative experiences are actually in the minority.  Most counter-men are fine.  It's just the negative ones that stick out.

[redrider90]

I went into a local gun store to look at pistols. We are endemic with rabies where I live. My county already had its 4th confirmed case in 2015. Last year was a record. So I was thinking about a pistol. I live in the woods. Have a neighbor who had to have rabies shots. The dogs killed a rabid coon in front yard and the stupid person goes over to see if the dog was hurt. Jeeze the moment you touch the dog forget it. You're getting the shots.
Anyhow I think the guy spent some time with me and I am a total idiot when it come to firearms. He was nice enough but I am not so sure about what he was telling me.  So I was thinking as 22 pistol long rifle hollow point would be good enough to put down a coon or skunk. But the guy was really pushing a 45 on me and I didn't want a big gun. I told him I got bad ears and if I have shoot something I haven't got time to put plugs in but he made it sound like I couldn't take down a decent size coon without a 45 so I said forget it. i shoot a 45 my ears will never quit ringing. Heck I cannot even hammer a nail without ear protection. But later I came to believe he was telling me wrong about a 22. I think a semi 22 pistol would be sufficient even for home protection. Especially with hollow points long rifle. With a big clip you just keep on firing till the sucker stops or you miss on all rounds.

[Rough Edge racing]

 I get rifles and or shotguns from gun enthusiast friends. They always seem to have something to part with...

[Bill929]

My last experience with a gun shop wasn't good at all.  I went in with my Mini 14, asking to upgrade the sights (holographic and night vision).  They sold me components that did not work together and when I brought them back they said - no returns.  My response was - are you serious, you recommended these and they don't work on my gun.  They said sorry, no returns.  Last time visiting that shop.  

[bacongrease]

 I think Gun shops aren't any different than most independently owned joints..
Okay, maybe worse.  But my last trip they gave me a take off 12 ga. barrel .
To build a NW Trade gun.

[DucatiSSsp]

It's hit and miss at my local gun shops, one day you might not even get acknowledged and the next time you might get three guys helping you.  But as many said before, do your homework.  You might even go to a range that rents weapons and try out a few that are on the top of your list.
Did someone mention a slabside bull barrel....?  ;D
Very accurate and trouble free!  ;-T

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