Author Topic: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's  (Read 20047 times)

56Pan

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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #60 on: April 23, 2015, 10:25:02 PM »
I just walked in.  There's chinese parts on my Norge?  You're shittin' me, right?

Offline cruzziguzzi

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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #61 on: April 23, 2015, 10:37:42 PM »
While I find parts sourced from Communist China a personal problem - my real concern is the overriding tone of technological failure surrounding new bikes. Rushing to production with incompletely R&Dd products has left me cold on several fronts.

The induction/ECM issues on my Calvin broke my particular camel's back with regards to tolerating this manufacturing dispassion with regards to a fully finished product hitting the showrooms.

I know there're legion of satisfied; Cal 1400, Stelvio, V-7, et al, riders out there but the continual din of dissatisfaction is what sticks with me.

I fully accept the latin effect on fit and finish of my previous bikes but when it comes down to not being able to address failings in my garage or needing a computer and computer skills which I have no wish to acquire... my enthusiasm runs cold.

So, Torpor, impassivity or a general sense of insensibility for the new offerings? Count me in.

Todd.
Todd
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Offline Aaron D.

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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #62 on: April 24, 2015, 06:29:05 AM »
I have little interest in new Guzzis, but not because of parts sourcing.

As Charlie said, the older Guzzis were made pretty much from all Italian parts. Like those snuff box switches that tended to melt.

Just one thing-most US debt is held domestically. China had been the top nation holding US debt for a few years but Japan just got the top spot back.

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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #63 on: April 24, 2015, 08:02:38 AM »
I have little interest in new Guzzis, but not because of parts sourcing.

As Charlie said, the older Guzzis were made pretty much from all Italian parts. Like those snuff box switches that tended to melt.

Just one thing-most US debt is held domestically. China had been the top nation holding US debt for a few years but Japan just got the top spot back.

And I find it hard to get too worried about Chinese or Japanese "holding" our debt.   When I was paying for my house, I owed money that was two times my gross annual income, and was glad to get it.   I sign a piece of paper, they give me a lot of money.

What are they going to do, send Ling around with a baseball bat to collect?   "Nice place you got, be shame something happen to it ..."

Lannis
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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #64 on: April 24, 2015, 08:33:15 AM »

It's frustrating with high-tech computerized stuff breaks.  I don't really have an interest in hooking a computer to my motorcycle to diagnose and fix problems with the EFI, ignition, whatever...

On the other hand, the stuff rarely breaks and doesn't have to have much fiddling.

I was reluctant to get fuel injected motorcycles.  So far, I've had a Quota, V11 LeMans, Bassa, and V7C that were injected.  The Quota needing tuning by a shop once in the 10,000 miles I owned it.  The V11 LeMans never in 40,000 miles.  The Bassa never in 10,000 miles.  I only rode the V7C a few thousand miles, but it didn't need anything either.

Making the gauge package an integral part of the bikes' systems does worry me.  For long-term serviceability and for the rare occasion when it gets damaged in a light crash where an older bike could just be ridden on.
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Offline Triple Jim

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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #65 on: April 24, 2015, 08:39:49 AM »
And the Akront rims on the 1000S were made in Spain. The 91 1000S big block rims were known to split down the center of the rim which required a free change out at the dealer.  :o

That's interesting.  The original front Akront on my Mille had cracks at most of the nipple holes, so the split down the center was well under way.  

When I was shopping for a replacement, I found evidence that Borrani rims are forged in the far east and finished in Italy.  Now there is "Borrani Amaricas" too, so I have no idea where a Borrani rim would be made if I bought one.  Because of all this confusion, I decided that I wasn't willing to spend extra to get the Borrani name on a rim that was not likely to be Italian, so I went with the advice of Woody at Woody's Wheelworks and bought an Excel rim.  

Things are so globalized these days that it's probably better to base a purchase decision on things like quality, features, reputation, and repair history, than name.
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Offline AH Fan

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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #66 on: April 24, 2015, 09:16:52 AM »
Sometimes it's nice to buy American Products that are made in The USA.  Sometimes it's nice to buy Italian Products that are made in Italy.  Etc., Etc.

Heck, I don't even mind buying Japanese Products that are made in Japan!

But I do get tired of going shopping for things like Justin Boots and seeing a "made in China" tag instead of "made in Texas USA" tag.

One of the great things about Moto Guzzi has been that its in-country content was virtually 100% up until very recently.  
  
Sometimes when you buy something from someplace, you'd like it to be made in that place.


 Yup..I'm on your team Rocker............. ... ;-T



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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #67 on: April 24, 2015, 09:40:57 AM »
like Bob said, "It's sundown on the union, sure was a good idea till greed got in the way".
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Offline sbaker

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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #68 on: April 24, 2015, 09:56:20 AM »

Buy nothing.. it's safer!
Sam
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Penderic

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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #69 on: April 24, 2015, 10:16:37 AM »
Patina!  :-*

lucydad

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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #70 on: April 24, 2015, 11:12:58 AM »
I am keenly watching Moto Guzzi for their next line of bikes.  My hopes are for an updated small block, with about 65 hp, ABS brakes, and keep the great looks and air cooled simple engine.  Time will tell.  Meanwhile I will enjoy my V7R to the max, and keep piling on the miles....

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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #71 on: April 24, 2015, 11:42:07 AM »
Boy Nick would've enjoyed this thread :)
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Offline fossil

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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #72 on: April 24, 2015, 11:43:50 AM »
That´s a funny thread. I´m following it on my rugged, solid, nice and fast Dell Latitude laptop. It has a mark at it´s underside. It reads: Made in China.
Greetings from Germany!
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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #73 on: April 24, 2015, 11:54:15 AM »
That´s a funny thread. I´m following it on my rugged, solid, nice and fast Dell Latitude laptop. It has a mark at it´s underside. It reads: Made in China.

Obviously something they may be good at, then.   No telling where this Apple of mine might be from, but whoever did it did a good job.   Simple minds want to turn the discussion into a "China Hating" thread so they can holler bigotry and racism from a closed mind and open mouth, instead of having a discussion of quality and utility in various economies and cultures.

You ready to buy a ChangFeng car over a BMW?

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Kentktk

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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #74 on: April 24, 2015, 01:17:27 PM »
I am keenly watching Moto Guzzi for their next line of bikes.  My hopes are for an updated small block, with about 65 hp, ABS brakes, and keep the great looks and air cooled simple engine.

Since the EU will require ABS on motorcycles in 2016, that wish will come true soon.

Offline segesta

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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #75 on: April 24, 2015, 02:46:57 PM »
Oh, and there has been a problem in the Italian garment business for some time regarding the label Made in Italy. Evidently, Chinese labor has been imported to the country at slave labor wages to produce garments in Italy with the above label driving out other local businesses with Italian labor.


Indeed--the Camorra controls the garment business, and yes, they basically use Chinese and East European almost-slave-labor at their factories near Naples. If you own an item that says Made In Italy, then you've provided money to organized crime.

http://www.amazon.com/Gomorrah-Personal-Journey-International-Organized/dp/0312427794/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1429904755&sr=8-1&keywords=gomorra

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nunzio

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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #76 on: April 24, 2015, 03:04:26 PM »
Funny stuff here. American riders of Italian motorcycles unhappy because of Chinese suppliers.   :pop

Paul

+1

Offline mach1mustang351

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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #77 on: April 26, 2015, 01:56:02 PM »
I work in the auto parts world and when it comes to Chinese made parts there are a couple kinds.  There is Chinese made that are made in American (or whatever other country)  controlled factories.  Those parts tend to be of good quality but cheaper in price because of the labor and cost of manufacture savings.  The cheap junk is the stuff that is made and quality controlled in China, but depending on your sensibilities the low, low cost could make that a good option for you.

Here is kind of a ranty section.  I work in auto parts and I have this same conversation many times a day.  People come in and say they want something good, premium, USA made, etc.  I quote that, they then ask "Why does it cost so much?"  We discuss features, attributes, benefits, etc.  Then it almost always ends with "give me the cheap one."  

I think over time the word Value has changed.  These days you see that work on cheap stuff.  Value now means cheap.  To me value is still a good product at a good price.  Many people don't see that.  so many of the business around us sell on price, price is being forced as the number one reason for buying and it shows in consumer behavior.  

So I guess I ask that anyone that buys stuff should know what is important to them.  If you want the cheapest thing always. that's fine, but don't strut around acting like you want American made and high quality, you don't, you get what you pay for.  If value is important, what do you value?  Quality, buying convenience, professionals that can help you when you need it, good sales people, selection, these things all cost money, and are non conducive to a business model that runs cheap.  When I go call on my customers I get professional shops that will tell me, You guys have the fastest service in town, and have professional parts people on the phone, That's Awesome!!! but xxx competitor is cheaper, their phone service is crap and they deliver slowly, if at all and are not professional.  Why cant you be cheapest too.? Being the best is not a cheap operations plan.  It costs money.  I could get rid of my professionals, cut drivers and save some expense and use that to counter some cheaper parts cost.  If I did that, where would we be??  What if everyone in the industry did that??  Everyone would be fighting for the bottom and leaving the Value customers out in the cold.  

At a managers meeting we had a speaker that talked about how in business you have two options.  You can be the cheapest, or you can be the best.  There is no room for the middle.  I believe that whole heartedly.  Would you shop at a place that had okay prices, lame sales people, and a mediocre selection??  There would be no benefit to someplace like this.  

Anyway.  Sorry for all that, but it is something I live with at work and I think about a lot.  Hopefully there was something reasonable in there.      

Offline Arizona Wayne

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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #78 on: April 26, 2015, 02:23:37 PM »
I appreciate your honesty and agree with you 100%.  ;-T   Many customers want the best of both worlds and bitch when they can't get it.

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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #79 on: April 26, 2015, 02:29:15 PM »
 People come in and say they want something good, premium, USA made, etc.  I quote that, they then ask "Why does it cost so much?"  We discuss features, attributes, benefits, etc.  Then it almost always ends with "give me the cheap one."  

    

Americans.   We want to live in a First World country and be paid First World wages, but we want to pay Third World prices for everything.   

Lannis
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Offline Stormtruck2

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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #80 on: April 26, 2015, 06:51:36 PM »
You can have what you seek to buy.
You can have it cheap, good, or fast..



Choose two.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 06:53:21 PM by Stormtruck2 »
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wjjones

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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #81 on: April 27, 2015, 03:59:17 AM »
I work in the auto parts world and when it comes to Chinese made parts there are a couple kinds.  There is Chinese made that are made in American (or whatever other country)  controlled factories.  Those parts tend to be of good quality but cheaper in price because of the labor and cost of manufacture savings.  The cheap junk is the stuff that is made and quality controlled in China, but depending on your sensibilities the low, low cost could make that a good option for you.

Here is kind of a ranty section.  I work in auto parts and I have this same conversation many times a day.  People come in and say they want something good, premium, USA made, etc.  I quote that, they then ask "Why does it cost so much?"  We discuss features, attributes, benefits, etc.  Then it almost always ends with "give me the cheap one."  

I think over time the word Value has changed.  These days you see that work on cheap stuff.  Value now means cheap.  To me value is still a good product at a good price.  Many people don't see that.  so many of the business around us sell on price, price is being forced as the number one reason for buying and it shows in consumer behavior.  

So I guess I ask that anyone that buys stuff should know what is important to them.  If you want the cheapest thing always. that's fine, but don't strut around acting like you want American made and high quality, you don't, you get what you pay for.  If value is important, what do you value?  Quality, buying convenience, professionals that can help you when you need it, good sales people, selection, these things all cost money, and are non conducive to a business model that runs cheap.  When I go call on my customers I get professional shops that will tell me, You guys have the fastest service in town, and have professional parts people on the phone, That's Awesome!!! but xxx competitor is cheaper, their phone service is crap and they deliver slowly, if at all and are not professional.  Why cant you be cheapest too.? Being the best is not a cheap operations plan.  It costs money.  I could get rid of my professionals, cut drivers and save some expense and use that to counter some cheaper parts cost.  If I did that, where would we be??  What if everyone in the industry did that??  Everyone would be fighting for the bottom and leaving the Value customers out in the cold.  

At a managers meeting we had a speaker that talked about how in business you have two options.  You can be the cheapest, or you can be the best.  There is no room for the middle.  I believe that whole heartedly.  Would you shop at a place that had okay prices, lame sales people, and a mediocre selection??  There would be no benefit to someplace like this.  

Anyway.  Sorry for all that, but it is something I live with at work and I think about a lot.  Hopefully there was something reasonable in there.      
Yours may be the best insights in this thread.  Thanx.

Personally, I prefer a bike with fewer whiz bang electronics.  That's one reason I don't own a newer BMW or Ducati. I don't like having to take my Stelvio to the Dealer to get the TPS reset, but it shouldn't be necessary very often.  My friends ride newer BMWs and their bikes are frequently in the shop for Problems with the overly complicated suspension or driving mode systems--No, thanks.

Vasco DG

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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #82 on: April 27, 2015, 04:39:47 AM »
Yours may be the best insights in this thread.  Thanx.

Personally, I prefer a bike with fewer whiz bang electronics.  That's one reason I don't own a newer BMW or Ducati. I don't like having to take my Stelvio to the Dealer to get the TPS reset, but it shouldn't be necessary very often.  My friends ride newer BMWs and their bikes are frequently in the shop for Problems with the overly complicated suspension or driving mode systems--No, thanks.

You don't have to take your Stelvio to a dealer to have its TPS re-set? You can if you want and if it's done as a part of a normal service it'll cost you very little, (At least it would at my shop.) but there is free software readily available to allow you to do all this and more. OK, it's free if you're too mean to give a donation for others had work but really what you give is up to you and your conscience.

Methinks this is more of the evidence of the propaganda that all the 'Modern' bikes are very complex and to work on them you have to be able to slaughter a chicken and wave a particular voodoo fetish to keep them working.

CRAP. I actually think that tuning and maintaining, at a basic level, a modern Guzzi, is both cheaper and easier than an old one.

Others opinions may vary.

Pete

Offline rodekyll

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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #83 on: April 27, 2015, 05:03:58 AM »
The place where the logic fails for me is when the points-and-carb folks complain that they can't fix an efi machine by the side of the road, but when their throttle cable breaks or points burn or whatever, they can whip out a spare, and seconds later are back in the hunt.  As though you're not allowed to carry spare parts for an efi bike . . . or that you're more likely to find marelli 2-pc points than a 5-pin mini relay at the roadside NAPA.

Vasco DG

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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #84 on: April 27, 2015, 06:44:22 AM »
Ah yes! But carrying and swapping electronic shit isn't nearly as macho or sexy as grimly pulling the tank off and making yourself smelly taking the lid off a carburetor to swap a cable. Also, I hate to say it, but 90% of people who post here extolling the virtues of 'Old Tech' would be baffled by their points closing up on the road and one of the perennial 'Ignition Timing' questions with the twin point 'Distributors' is that if the points are set with their maximum gap there isn't enough movement in the floating plate to time the engine accurately.

The simple answer, at least to anyone who has a clue, would be to alter the dwell, after all there is plenty on a slow revving lump like a Guzzi, but it remains a perennial 'Problem'.

This isn't a criticism of those who don't understand. Simply an indicator that if you don't your bike won't run right and may well end up having a serious break-down because of it. I haven't seen a single holed piston or seized bore on any EFI Guzzi unless it's been 'Tuned' or modified by a charlatan or fuckwit.....

Just sayin.......

Pete
« Last Edit: April 27, 2015, 06:46:29 AM by Vasco DG »

Offline blackcat

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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #85 on: April 27, 2015, 06:46:09 AM »

CRAP. I actually think that tuning and maintaining, at a basic level, a modern Guzzi, is both cheaper and easier than an old one.

Others opinions may vary.

Pete

Yes.

I took the CX out for a long ride yesterday and when I got back home realized that one of the carbs needs to be a bit richer based on my guesstimation. When I owned my first fuel injected bike I found the technology to be intimidating and now I find working on carbs to be the same thing with the newer bikes being the easier of the two.
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Offline Chuck in Indiana

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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #86 on: April 27, 2015, 07:17:55 AM »
I won't argue with the modern Guzzi being able to be serviced/troubleshot by a home mechanic. It's still a pretty simple machine.
Comma but.
The Kid had the hots for a new MV, so I went to Wisconsin to hang out and look at it with him. It is absolutely gorgeous, fit and finish is very nice, and complicated to a fault, IMHO. *Everything* is computer controlled. It looks to me that if you buy something like that you are totally at the mercy of the dealer's "tech" and he had better be good...

I've seen too many dealer's "techs."

 
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Vasco DG

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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #87 on: April 27, 2015, 07:30:07 AM »
And that's the issue. It's not the 'Technology' it's the 'Technician',which is why I'm so happy to just be a dumbf*ck 'Mechanic'! ;D

Pete

Offline rodekyll

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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #88 on: April 27, 2015, 12:04:48 PM »
Yes.

I took the CX out for a long ride yesterday and when I got back home realized that one of the carbs needs to be a bit richer based on my guesstimation. When I owned my first fuel injected bike I found the technology to be intimidating and now I find working on carbs to be the same thing with the newer bikes being the easier of the two.

I've been saying that here for years.  If you understand one, you understand both.  If you don't understand one, you really don't 'get' either.

Offline redrider90

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Re: No interest in new MotoGuzzi's
« Reply #89 on: April 27, 2015, 12:58:57 PM »
Guzzi's were built by people making decent wages, using parts made in Europe by folks making decent wages. Now they want premium money for non premium stuff. And they still cannot get it right out the door.

Understand now Paul?




Speaking of premium money I just checked out the latest line of Harleys. Seems that out of the 36 models listed only 8 ( 6 Sportsters + the 500 and 750) come in below $16,000. Out of those 28 left 13 of them cost more that $20,000.
So the Harley line 13 bikes listed at or above $20K-$39K, 14 bikes listed $15K-$20K and the rest 9 $10k-$7K. Now here is what I call premium money. A 500 CC  coming in a whopping 489#s for $6700 (+$300 shipping and $50 for California emissions)   and they do not even list the HP on the website. I defy anyone to find the HP listed on any Harley website.

"When the street is where you live, it starts to live in you. True of a rider. True of a motorcycle. The look of the Harley-Davidson Street™ 750 and 500 motorcycles comes from the street. Born out of the custom tradition of tearing down a motorcycle to its
raw, minimal essence and letting the pure rebellion inherent in the lines of the machine come screaming through. This is the essential attitude. It doesn’t require much explanation."
OMG someone really wrote this and put it in an advertisement? And they cannot even list the HP?  ~; 8) :D
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