MGX-21 Flying Fortress bat bike bagger merged threadfest

[Dogwalker]

Flying Fortress sounds better then the Italian's bomber name: Gobbo Maledetto ("damned hunchback")
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savoia-Marchetti_SM.79

The official name of the SM.79 was "Sparviero" (Sparrowhawk)
However it was more apt to be a torpedo bomber. For the bomber role was more fit the Cant Z.1007 "Alcione" (Kingfisher).

Didn't the B17s participate in some notable bombing strike in Italy?

Many actually, but during the war the US bombers were indicated more as "Liberator", both cause the B24 was effectively more used, and cause the fascist propaganda find useful to stress the irony over the "Liberators" that bombed the population.

[blackcat]

"THE FUTURE OF THE BAGGER.
FORGET ALL YOU KNOW."

Forgotten.

[DaddyRabbit]

Are baggers what is selling these days?  Maybe I'm just not on that train.  I have been waiting for a full dress C1400, so I was excited to hear there was a fairing 1400 bike coming from MG.  This bike seems to be directed at the rider who wants to be bad ass in his leathers cruising up and down the blvd.  I'm not bashing that rider in the least, I'm just curious if that is where the sales are these days. 

This is a very cool introduction to that segment, and I hope that I actually see the MGX gaining some traction in the bagger world. Its a very unique departure, in the same way Victory put a fresh look on the cruiser a few years ago.  Moto Guzzi has such an excellent platform to build from with the C1400, and can go into any big block segment with it. The Audace, Eldorado (my favorite) and the Custom are absolutely BA. in fact, by now Piaggio should be out of stock on them and should be taking orders for future sales because these machines are that good.  Alas, its not in their marketing/support DNA to get their product to that level.

Personally, I had hoped a full dress would be its next stakehorse.  For me, i'm going to stick with my C1400 Touring until a better (Really?  Better? --- That's a tall order in my book!) comes out.

[rocker59]

Are baggers what is selling these days?   

Yes.  Since fat-tired Chopperz jumped the shark, those "owners" migraged to Baggerz.

Harley's Street Glide and Road Glide are top sellers.

But what's the difference in a "Bagger" and a "Tourer", really?  No, really?

They both have fairings and hard panniers and 2-up seats.  The differences are simply in cosmetics, no?

[Scud]

To me, a bagger connotes a "sporty" (aka low-slung) cruiser with two hard side cases. A bagger usually has sculpted side cases and sometimes sacrifices practicality for style.

A tourer connotes a more upright cruiser with hard cases, often including a top case. On tourers, the three bags can look more "bolt-on" and boxy. A tourer sometimes sacrifices style for practicality.

The MGX-21 reminds me in some ways of the Scura: flat black, excessive use of carbon fiber, "limited" production. But the similarities end there.

I think it's a good styling exercise and will get people's attention - and hopefully get more people to consider the brand, even if they are not open to this particular model.
IF (and it's a big if) I were to get a cruiser, I'd be tempted to get a Road King - but I'd have to ride it back to back with the Guzzi California Touring. I'm pretty sure the ride would make me want the Guzzi.

[Chuck in Indiana]

yuck

[rocker59]

To me, a bagger connotes a "sporty" (aka low-slung) cruiser with two hard side cases. A bagger usually has sculpted side cases and sometimes sacrifices practicality for style.

A tourer connotes a more upright cruiser with hard cases, often including a top case. On tourers, the three bags can look more "bolt-on" and boxy. A tourer sometimes sacrifices style for practicality.
 

But, the definitive baggers, the two Harleys, are just cosmetic variations on existing touring bikes.  They use the same side bags and top cases are optional.  The low shocks on the baggers can be switched with the (slightly) taller ones from the tourers, and seats are all interchangeable.

"Bagger" is just "biker slang" for "touring bike", afterall.  Isn't it ?

When choppers were hot, the term "bagger" was almost derogatory.  Now baggers are cool.  Funny how that culture morphs over time.

[Scud]

But, the definitive baggers, the two Harleys, are just cosmetic variations on existing touring bikes.  They use the same side bags and top cases are optional.  The low shocks on the baggers can be switched with the (slightly) taller ones from the tourers, and seats are all interchangeable.

"Bagger" is just "biker slang" for "touring bike", afterall.  Isn't it ?

When choppers were hot, the term "bagger" was almost derogatory.  Now baggers are cool.  Funny how that culture morphs over time.

That's the challenge with language isn't it? We can all use the same word, but assign slightly different meanings to it. I hardly ever hear "bagger" applied to non-cruiser touring bikes. For example, a Honda Goldwing is not a bagger, neither is a Moto Guzzi Norge, BMW K1600.

Continuing on the language theme: Flying Fortress, a WWII airplane nickname... doesn't work for me, but I am not big fan of military history. I'm also not a fan of the California name - maybe that's because I live in California and it feels awkward. Maybe the problem with both those names is that they feel inauthentic. They are American terms slapped on Italian motorcycles and do not seem to have any real connection to Moto Guzzi history.

Words such as Scura, LeMans, Audace, and Breva feel authentic to me. Combinations of letters and numbers (V11, MGX-21) are generally safe and descriptive - but not evocative.

[rocker59]

That's the challenge with language isn't it? We can all use the same word, but assign slightly different meanings to it. I hardly ever hear "bagger" applied to non-cruiser touring bikes. For example, a Honda Goldwing is not a bagger, neither is a Moto Guzzi Norge, BMW K1600.

While I agree that a "bagger" is a variation on the touring-cruiser, you might be surprised at how many people who live only in the cruiser/biker world apply "bagger" to any motorcycle with hard bags, these days.

Continuing on the language theme: Flying Fortress, a WWII airplane nickname... doesn't work for me, but I am not big fan of military history. I'm also not a fan of the California name - maybe that's because I live in California and it feels awkward. Maybe the problem with both those names is that they feel inauthentic. They are American terms slapped on Italian motorcycles and do not seem to have any real connection to Moto Guzzi history.

Words such as Scura, LeMans, Audace, and Breva feel authentic to me. Combinations of letters and numbers (V11, MGX-21) are generally safe and descriptive - but not evocative.

I don't have a problem with "California" on a Moto Guzzi.  It actually does have a huge history with Moto Guzzi.  Moto Guzzi's peak production happened at a time in the early 1970s when the loops were huge sellers to LAPD and CHP, and a civilian version was named "California" to note the connection.

"Flying Fortress" was trademarked by Boeing.  It wasn't just a nickname.  A reporter coined the term at its first flight and Boeing liked the name, then trademarked it.  Why Piaggio/Guzzi/Galluzzi picked the name is a mystery to me.  I don't get the connection, and would think they'd have an Italian bomber's name to apply to the bike.  On the other hand, the B-17 was admired the world over for it's performance and durability during The War, so maybe it's an homage.  Or, maybe they just thought it sounded tough and American.  Who knows?  I doubt most people will connect the name with the WWII bomber.  Most people don't think that deeply.  I do wish they'd chosen another name for the bike, though.

[Scud]

Good point on the California history, I didn't consider that.

We're probably not going to see a lot of people riding around on "Flying Fortresses" dressed up like General Frank Savage (Gregory Peck) in Twelve O'Clock High.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_O%27Clock_High

But I bet we'll see some beanie-helmet-and-goggle wearers on that motorcycle.

[Bill Havins]

There is a fair amount of this "sculpted-look" stuff going on in the "custom bagger" world.  See for example:  http://corbin.com/honda/hv14bag_6.jpg
They're the same bags I've ordered for my black Honda.

Think of it as a "naked" bike wearing a padded bikini....or something.

[Triple Jim]

Maybe "flying" has a special meaning to Italians.  The nickname in Italy for a Kawasaki H2 was The Flying Coffin. 

[Don G]

Why would they dedut this at Sturgis? That is Harley country, yeah I know that there will be thoushands of people there but 95% are H-D oriented. DonG

[rocker59]

Why would they dedut this at Sturgis? That is Harley country, yeah I know that there will be thoushands of people there but 95% are H-D oriented. DonG

The same reason Indian debuted the Chief there ?

Because it's the biggest gathering of people who ride these types of motorcycles ?

I'm not into the "biker" scene, and I'm not real happy with Guzzi heading that direction, but it's pretty sound business to have a booth at Sturgis to market your cruisers, touring-cruisers, and baggers...

All the OEMs will be there.

[SemperVee]

  Did'nt Batman have one of these?   

[Don G]

yeah but Indian is an American legend, fits in with H-D ,and Sturgis is American as it gets. I just dont see why they would not appear at more sedate venues rather than a Gay Pirate pick-nick, just saying....  DonG

[rboe]

If it's a hot market MG should go after it. I wish them luck. But I'm not a fan of baggers. 

[rocker59]

I just dont see why they would not appear at more sedate venues rather than a Gay Pirate pick-nick, just saying....  DonG

I think half a million potential customers in one spot at one time is a huge temptation.

I think that Piaggio/Guzzi sees potential sales in that demographic.  But, I don't think they have a real handle on, or understanding of the segment.

I wish them success, but I would rather see the development money being spent on things like big block retro standards and lighter/better Stelvios/Norges and more powerful/better handling small blocks.

I think the California 1400 has too much plastic on it for the "biker crowd", and they're not really into carbon fiber, or anything Eye-Tal-Yun.  So, it will be interesting to see the response the MGX-21 receives at the event, and in the biker/cruiser/chopper/bagger press.

[kingoffleece]

We used to call them "Dressers" back in the day.  There was no confusion.

[rocker59]

We used to call them "Dressers" back in the day.  There was no confusion.

People still use that term.

Ultra Classic Electra Glide and Indian Chief Roadmaster are the "full dress" benchmarks.

I'm pretty sure that "bagger" started being used to refer to customs and choppers which had bags added.  Then it morphed into being applied to customized touring-cruisers available on the showroom...


When I hear "bagger", something like this comes to mind.  It's what people were describing a decade ago:

[Don G]

Where did that barfing emoticon get to? LOL  DonG

[George_S]

yeah but Indian is an American legend, fits in with H-D ,and Sturgis is American as it gets. I just dont see why they would not appear at more sedate venues rather than a Gay Pirate pick-nick, just saying....  DonG

The Indian motorcycles of today harken back to their prior legend in only a somewhat cosmetic sense. It's a completely new company but with the rights to the name.

I see no reason why a company that is not an "American legend" should not try and make an inroad there.

[rocker59]

I see no reason why a company that is not an "American legend" should not try and make an inroad there.

So you think Yama-Star, Kawasaki, Suzuki, and Honda should also not send demo trucks to Sturgis ?

[kirb]

I like the MGX-21's carbon bodywork.

The fairing looks a little too Batmobile/Futura for me.  But the rest of the bike is pretty cool.

Let's hope it's real carbon fiber...but the statement 'From its front aerodynamic protection to its entirely carbon-coated tail' has me thinking it's real carbon stuck on. Those bags have a LOT of carbon on the sides...I'd like to see that up close. I do like the pegs over floor boards.

[Wayne Orwig]

Double butt ugly

[Waltr]

  I too was hoping for a full dressed version to show.  Fairing, lowers, bags and trunk, intercom, radio with weather and either IPOD connection or CD or both, and finally built in GPS.  Basically everything a BMW 1600 has but built on a Guzzi 1400 platform.

By the way the California is absent from the 2016 dealers price list.

[Waltr]

The Audace has real carbon fiber.

[George_S]

So you think Yama-Star, Kawasaki, Suzuki, and Honda should also not send demo trucks to Sturgis ?

Maybe I put too many 'nos' in there but I'm saying exactly the opposite.

[CalVin2007]

   I don't like it much either. As for Guzzi's understanding of the "bagger" and maybe even the Harley segment overall, I am reminded of a quote:

     "Just be yourself-everyone else is taken"

   The Guzzi "self" is very interesting indeed,and my opinion is that they should embrace it and build on it. I believe the V7 was/is a good example of that and sales show that there is interest in the brand. I also think there's an untapped market in the sport/sport touring segment that Guzzi is perfectly positioned to take advantage of if they'd just decide to do it. Yes,I know Aprilia is the darling child for that market, and blah blah.  Just my opinion,lol.  :Beating_A_Dead_Hors e_by_liviu

   Terry (glad I bought a Cal Vintage)

[Vagrant]

the word dark just tells me they painted it flat black. I hate flat paint. motorcycles are supposed to be pretty. I bought the red Mille Gt and red and white 2001 EV out of pure lust. come to think about it the 1997 red and white Valkyrie showed up in my garage for the same reason. if the V711 had bright red I would have already bought one and no I flat (no pun intended} refuse to paint a new bike.