Honda Usa 2016 - A 1000cc Adv Twin @ 450lbs?

[Penderic]

Details at:

https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2015/05/12/2016-honda-crf1000l-africa-twin-confirmed-for-america/

That is a light adventure bike with that kind of power.

[fotoguzzi]

they list all the ADV competition but forgot or skipped the Stelvio..

[canuguzzi]

How long before HD figures out everyone else is selling a lot of AD bikes based on V-Twins?

[Penderic]

Looks like Honda took and tweaked the headlight treatment from the Stelvio.

[jas67]

they list all the ADV competition but forgot or skipped the Stelvio..

They didn't forget or skip the Stelvio.    That just never heard of it.

Moto who?

[fotoguzzi]

How long before HD figures out everyone else is selling a lot of AD bikes based on V-Twins?

bring back the Uly! Erik is waiting by his phone.

[rocker59]

How long before HD figures out everyone else is selling a lot of AD bikes based on V-Twins?

Blip on the radar, man.

ADVbikes are a single digit market segment.

I don't think HD (Or Polaris) are looking outside the box they're in.  And why should they?  It's the biggest box out there.

Lets be generous and say there are 10,000 big ADVbikes sold in the USA each year.  Well, HD has killed lots of models (and the entire Buell Division) for not meeting that volume bar.

They're not even looking.

[rocker59]

Details at:

https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2015/05/12/2016-honda-crf1000l-africa-twin-confirmed-for-america/

That is a light adventure bike with that kind of power.

Lots of Hondaphiles will be slobbering over this news.  They've been wanting an Africa Twin back in the USA forever.

Honda may actually have a hit on thier hands, for a change, after all the freaky feet-forward things they've been putting out the past few years...

[jcctx]

The 500X, a quasi adv weighs in # 430lbs.  Makes the 1000cc version appear VERY light???

[GearheadGrrrl]

The GSs have been BMWs best sellers for years, and they're one of the few moto makers selling over 100k bikes a year and growing. KTM is rivaling BMW, and they're all dirt all the time. Give the trend a couple more years, and dual sports will be too big a market to ignore.

[roam]

Kinda reminds me of a Super Ten.

[biking sailor]

Then, by the time you load it up with crash bars, hard bags, aux lights, handguards...  you will have a bike that is near the same weight as the rest of the market.  If Honda does the 1000cc twin like they did the CB500X, it won't be a super power house along the lines of the VFR V4 or CBR in-line 4.  Just like the Yamaha Super Tenere 1200cc twin is just OK in the power department, sub 100HP.  Yeah, sorta close to the BMW and Guzzi 1200 twins in power.

My BMW GS feels very light compared to the Stelvio I had, but the Stelvio had a bigger tank and all the bars and bags already.  And the Super Tenere was about the same weight feeling.  The KTM 1190 Adventure did feel lighter, but not shaft drive either.

I'd definitely check it out, but I have realized the higher bar position of the adventure bike is taxing on my screwed up shoulder.  Back to a sport touring mount for me.  Although the GS is staying around as my utility and backup bike!

[PeteS]

Well 450 lbs is better than 550 plus but still way heavy for off road. I'll pay attention when they make a 650cc 70 HP version of this at under 350 lbs.

Pete

[rocker59]

The GSs have been BMWs best sellers for years, and they're one of the few moto makers selling over 100k bikes a year and growing.

Yeah.  But how many R12GS units are sold each year in the USA?  My money says it's not as many as you might think.

KTM is rivaling BMW, and they're all dirt all the time. Give the trend a couple more years, and dual sports will be too big a market to ignore.

No.  They're not.  KTM has been sinking lots of money into road bikes for several years, now.  Google "RC8".

 

[tiger_one]

Kinda reminds me of a Super Ten.

Yep, me too!

The 1190 adventure and Super Duke has the latest and greatest electronics out there, but Ducati, Yamaha, and BMW are trying to cover that hand, good times for all.  I'm all about lightweight.  Moved to the 1190 from Super Tenere, now the KTM is starting to feel heavy, WTH!

[tiger_one]

The jury is still out for me on the dual clutch but maybe I'm missing something on that one.

Looking good so far for CC!!

mike

I had to read up on the DCT a few weeks ago, my wife was looking at the CTX700ND which is DCT.  Seems you can choose two drive modes, one shifts early for best economy and easy driving.  The sport mode, shifts later.  You also can choose to manual shift with paddles on the left handlebar.

I was wondering about corners, what happens?  From the forums, I get that in most cases when you enter a corner and lift slightly it will downshift (usually as a surprise) so the experienced riders go to manual mode in corners to control when it shifts.

When you park, there is a brake lever on the left handlebar to lift up and engage brake to hold the bike on a slant, as the transmission will not.

Lots of noob riders on the forum I read from, but some older more experienced riders and they like the DCT a lot.

[jas67]

The jury is still out for me on the dual clutch but maybe I'm missing something on that one.

The dual clutch will be optional.

[jas67]

Then, by the time you load it up with crash bars, hard bags, aux lights, handguards...  you will have a bike that is near the same weight as the rest of the market.  If Honda does the 1000cc twin like they did the CB500X, it won't be a super power house along the lines of the VFR V4 or CBR in-line 4.  Just like the Yamaha Super Tenere 1200cc twin is just OK in the power department, sub 100HP.  Yeah, sorta close to the BMW and Guzzi 1200 twins in power.

The current, water-cooled, BMW twins are more like 125 HP.

[jas67]

No.  They're not.  KTM has been sinking lots of money into road bikes for several years, now.  Google "RC8".

RC390
Duke 390, 690
Super Duke 1290

[kirb]

Not enough beak, would not ride.

[Bill929]

The current, water-cooled, BMW twins are more like 125 HP.

Yup, my new GS is 125bhp at the crank and 116bhp at the rear wheel (MCN dyno).  

[andrewdonald1]

Till I see weight and HP figures, I am not getting excited. 
Although its nice to see it coming stateside. 

[leafman60]

Sleepy eyelids

[ohiorider]

Yeah.  But how many R12GS units are sold each year in the USA?  My money says it's not as many as you might think.


No.  They're not.  KTM has been sinking lots of money into road bikes for several years, now.  Google "RC8".

Here's some 2014 sales data to consider:

BMW sold 1525 units in the US in March 2014, marking a 2.8% improvement over the same period the previous year. Year-to-date BMW has sold 2964 motorcycles and maxi scooters in the States, a 4.4% increase over the first three months of 2013. One of the best performing models in the US for the month of March is BMW’s new R nineT (195 sold), followed by the R1200GS Adventure (179 sold) and R1200RT (165 sold).

Let’s do the math:

R9T:      195/2964 = 6.5%
R1200GS Av   179/2964 = 6.0%
R1200RT    165/2964 = 5.5%

So, 6.5% of sales were for the new 9T.  The GS Adventure posted 6% of 2014 quarterly sales, which doesn’t include the base GS (I think they still build that model.)  And the RT is 5.5%.  These three models made up 18% of BMW’s first quarter USA sales in 2014.

[Cage Free]

bring back the Uly! Erik is waiting by his phone.
[/quote

I bet he is. Im sure his investors would say twice is enough..Hey Erik, maybe try vacuums next because your bikes sure sucked.

[rboe]

Well 450 lbs is better than 550 plus but still way heavy for off road. I'll pay attention when they make a 650cc 70 HP version of this at under 350 lbs.

Pete

This.

But even then, I'll be loath to get rid of the 650L - too much money into it. :p

[rocker59]

Here's some 2014 sales data to consider:

BMW sold 1525 units in the US in March 2014, marking a 2.8% improvement over the same period the previous year. Year-to-date BMW has sold 2964 motorcycles and maxi scooters in the States, a 4.4% increase over the first three months of 2013. One of the best performing models in the US for the month of March is BMW’s new R nineT (195 sold), followed by the R1200GS Adventure (179 sold) and R1200RT (165 sold).

Let’s do the math:

R9T:      195/2964 = 6.5%
R1200GS Av   179/2964 = 6.0%
R1200RT    165/2964 = 5.5%

So, 6.5% of sales were for the new 9T.  The GS Adventure posted 6% of 2014 quarterly sales, which doesn’t include the base GS (I think they still build that model.)  And the RT is 5.5%.  These three models made up 18% of BMW’s first quarter USA sales in 2014.

179 BMW GSs in March.  Not the quarter.  By your numbers.

For March 179/1525 = 11.7%

Lets say they sell 179 GSs per month, every month.  That's 2148  units for 12-months. 

Like I said.  Not many bikes if you're wanting someone like Harley to produce a model in a particular niche. 

[fotoguzzi]

Sleepy eyelids

!

but deliver with serious HP and torq I'd like the auto tranny..

[fotoguzzi]

bring back the Uly! Erik is waiting by his phone.
[/quote

I bet he is. Im sure his investors would say twice is enough..Hey Erik, maybe try vacuums next because your bikes sure sucked.

not true, my Uly can blow away from any Guzzi I've had or my friends still ride.

[Randown]

...many details should be similar to the True Adventure prototype unveiled at EICMA in Milan.